GOP Senator: "We're not winning."

bitonti · 08-22-2005, 10:39 AM

[QUOTE]'We're not winning,' Hagel says of Iraq war
Douglass K. Daniel, Associated Press
August 22, 2005 HAGEL0822

WASHINGTON, D.C. - A leading Republican senator and prospective presidential candidate said Sunday that the war in Iraq has destabilized the Mideast and is looking more like the Vietnam conflict from a generation ago.

Nebraska Sen. Chuck Hagel, who received two Purple Hearts and other military honors for his service in Vietnam, reiterated his position that the United States needs to develop a strategy to leave Iraq.

"We should start figuring out how we get out of there," Hagel said on ABC-TV's "This Week."But with this understanding: We cannot leave a vacuum that further destabilizes the Middle East. I think our involvement there has destabilized the Middle East."

Hagel said "stay the course" is not a policy. "By any standard, when you analyze 2½ years in Iraq ... we're not winning," he said. "The longer we stay there, the more similarities [to Vietnam] are going to come together."

President Bush is preparing for speeches this week to reaffirm his plan to help Iraq train its security forces while its leaders build a democratic government.

The Army's top general, Gen. Peter Schoomaker, said Saturday that the Army is planning for the possibility of keeping the current number of soldiers in Iraq -- well over 100,000 -- for four more years as part of preparations for a worst-case scenario.
[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/5571832.html[/url]

what a commie this guy is - who does he think he is with his purple hearts and his cold logic? doesn't he know that Bush is always right?

This guy must be a card carrying liberal and his wife is probably a skank!

kennyo7 · 08-22-2005, 10:46 AM

What does he know about war?

Oh... he [U]actually [/U] fought in Vietnam. And he was awared a few puple hearts???

Well he probably did not deserve those medals! And, and ... I bet the soldiers he fought with hated him........ and and , he probalbly has an illegitamate black kid.... come on where are the swift boaters when you need them.

Doesnt this guy know , he is hurting troop morale and bringing comfort to the enemy with this kind of talk. Hes anti-america! , unpatriotic, No .... wait I know.... hes with the turrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrristts!

AlbanyJet · 08-22-2005, 10:59 AM

I wish the media would frame 'winning' in Iraq within the context of their national security.

If there weren't daily suicide bombings with US soldiers being killed no one would give a rat's tail about Iraq.

kennyo7 · 08-22-2005, 11:32 AM

[QUOTE]I wish the media would frame 'winning' in Iraq within the context of their national security.[/QUOTE]

The reason they are not doing this is because we have NO EVIDENCE that going to war in Iraq has anything to do with our national security.

sackdance · 08-22-2005, 11:41 AM

[QUOTE=kennyo7]What does he know about war?

Oh... he [U]actually [/U] fought in Vietnam. And he was awared a few puple hearts???[/QUOTE]
Prospective presidential candidate. Knows his share about politics, too.

quantum · 08-22-2005, 11:52 AM

I object to anyone saying that Iraq is looking more and more like Vietnam: its done either out of stupidity, or to score political points.

The main difference is that the South Vietnamese were tired of their corrupt leaders and no longer willing to fight; the US was more concerned about South Vietnam than the South Vietnamese. What happened was inevitable. This is not the case in Iraq: most Iraqis are happy Hussein is gone; the Kurds and most Shiites back us; and the Sunnis are slowly coming around. Something like 90% of the insurgents aren't even Iraqi. Totally different, but it makes a hell of a sound bite to get people's attention. :rolleyes:

kennyo7 · 08-22-2005, 12:10 PM

[QUOTE]Something like 90% of the insurgents aren't even Iraqi. [/QUOTE]

Where did you get this number from????

quantum · 08-22-2005, 12:18 PM

[QUOTE=kennyo7]Where did you get this number from????[/QUOTE]

It was in the papers a few months ago, courtesy of some organization that did the research. IIRC, 42% were Saudis.

bitonti · 08-22-2005, 01:22 PM

[QUOTE=quantum]IIRC, 42% were Saudis.[/QUOTE]

you mean our ALLIES? the Saudis? no way. Those guys are our friends!

[IMG]http://www.americanpolitics.com/mopaulbushabdullah.jpg[/IMG]

quantum · 08-24-2005, 09:21 AM

[QUOTE=bitonti]you mean our ALLIES? the Saudis? no way. Those guys are our friends!

[IMG]http://www.americanpolitics.com/mopaulbushabdullah.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Nice photoshop work :rolleyes:

Not all Saudis are our friends, much like not all Jets fans have brains (not talking about you) :D

bitonti · 08-24-2005, 09:54 AM

[QUOTE=quantum]Nice photoshop work :rolleyes:

Not all Saudis are our friends, much like not all Jets fans have brains (not talking about you) :D[/QUOTE]

you said this the last time I posted that picture - it's not photoshop. It's common knowledge.

Bush really does Kiss abdullah - it's a sign of affection between muslims. Bush has also been seen holding hands with abdullah - they are very tight and have been for years.

Maybe you believe our leader has more morals then to kiss a man whose country is responsible for 9-11. Guess what he doesn't.

sackdance · 08-24-2005, 10:01 AM

[QUOTE=bitonti] I posted that picture - it's not photoshop.[/QUOTE]
Just stop it, seriously. Whatever shreds of credibility you have is lost with this sentence. Look at that picture.

Section109Row15 · 08-24-2005, 10:11 AM

[QUOTE=sackdance]Just stop it, seriously. Whatever shreds of credibility you have is lost with this sentence. Look at that picture.[/QUOTE]

[img]http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2005/images/abdullakiss2.jpg[/img]

bitonti · 08-24-2005, 10:24 AM

[QUOTE=sackdance]Just stop it, seriously. Whatever shreds of credibility you have is lost with this sentence. Look at that picture.[/QUOTE]

sackdance you might not want to believe that our President is capable of kissing King Abdullah on the lips but it happened. Do a google image search "Bush Abdullah" you will find dozens of examples of such affection.

sackdance · 08-24-2005, 10:45 AM

[QUOTE=bitonti]sackdance you might not want to believe that our President is capable of kissing King Abdullah on the lips but it happened. Do a google image search "Bush Abdullah" you will find dozens of examples of such affection.[/QUOTE]
No, I am talking about that specific picture, with Bush kissing the King over his shoulder on the lips. [B]It is patently absurd for you to say that's not photoshopped![/B] Are you an idiot?

What the hell are you focusing on anyway, whether the President kisses a foreign leader? This would be normal protocol. What, Bush is gay now? Bush is in love with Abdullah? Bush is secret best friends with him? Grow up!

Section109Row15 · 08-24-2005, 10:49 AM

[QUOTE=sackdance]No, I am talking about that specific picture, with Bush kissing the King over his shoulder on the lips. [b]It is patently absurd for you to say that's not photoshopped![/b] Are you an idiot?

What the hell are you focusing on anyway, whether the President kisses a foreign leader? This would be normal protocol. What, Bush is gay now? Bush is in love with Abdullah? Bush is secret best friends with him? Grow up![/QUOTE]

Its no secret, Bush is very good friends with Abdullah as well as other prominent Saudi's like Bahndar and other royals.

sackdance · 08-24-2005, 11:15 AM

[QUOTE=Section109Row15]Its no secret, Bush is very good friends with Abdullah as well as other prominent Saudi's like Bahndar and other royals.[/QUOTE]
Who f'ing cares? Why should he not be on friendly terms, section? Feel free to try and make the case that Bush is more sympathetic with the House of Saud than the United States. Dumber logic is employed regularly by leftists everyday, no reason why you shouldn't try to pass this off as well.

Section109Row15 · 08-24-2005, 11:19 AM

[QUOTE=sackdance]Who f'ing cares? Why should he not be on friendly terms, section? Feel free to try and make the case that Bush is more sympathetic with the House of Saud than the United States. Dumber logic is employed regularly by leftists everyday, no reason why you shouldn't try to pass this off as well.[/QUOTE]

Its not about being friendly with them, it is that the Bush family has a long history with the Saudis. The Saudi's have poored a lot of money into the Bush family oil endevours along with the Carlyle Group. Prince Bahndar is called Bahndar Bush because the Bush's see him as an extended member of their family.

bitonti · 09-21-2005, 01:40 PM

[QUOTE=sackdance]
What the hell are you focusing on anyway, whether the President kisses a foreign leader? This would be normal protocol. What, Bush is gay now? Bush is in love with Abdullah? Bush is secret best friends with him? Grow up![/QUOTE]

I am focusing on the fact that our Leader is in cahoots with the head of a nation which supplies most of the world's anti-American terrorists.

By the way it is an Islamic custom for men to be very affectionate toward each other in a physical way - holding hands, kissing etc. This is a cultural difference between Westerners and Middle Easterners. It is thought that because women are marginalized and hidden in the culture that the physical closeness between men compensates for that (but not in a gay way).

Finally these pictures were NOT photoshopped at all! They are real! Bush and KING Abdullah have been close friends for decades.

quantum · 09-21-2005, 01:55 PM

There are pix of them kissing, but that photo is NOT real. Section's are real.

08-22-2005, 10:39 AM	#1
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	GOP Senator: "We're not winning." [QUOTE]'We're not winning,' Hagel says of Iraq war Douglass K. Daniel, Associated Press August 22, 2005 HAGEL0822 WASHINGTON, D.C. - A leading Republican senator and prospective presidential candidate said Sunday that the war in Iraq has destabilized the Mideast and is looking more like the Vietnam conflict from a generation ago. Nebraska Sen. Chuck Hagel, who received two Purple Hearts and other military honors for his service in Vietnam, reiterated his position that the United States needs to develop a strategy to leave Iraq. "We should start figuring out how we get out of there," Hagel said on ABC-TV's "This Week."But with this understanding: We cannot leave a vacuum that further destabilizes the Middle East. I think our involvement there has destabilized the Middle East." Hagel said "stay the course" is not a policy. "By any standard, when you analyze 2½ years in Iraq ... we're not winning," he said. "The longer we stay there, the more similarities [to Vietnam] are going to come together." President Bush is preparing for speeches this week to reaffirm his plan to help Iraq train its security forces while its leaders build a democratic government. The Army's top general, Gen. Peter Schoomaker, said Saturday that the Army is planning for the possibility of keeping the current number of soldiers in Iraq -- well over 100,000 -- for four more years as part of preparations for a worst-case scenario. [/QUOTE] [url]http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/5571832.html[/url] what a commie this guy is - who does he think he is with his purple hearts and his cold logic? doesn't he know that Bush is always right? This guy must be a card carrying liberal and his wife is probably a skank!

08-22-2005, 10:46 AM	#2
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,402	What does he know about war? Oh... he [U]actually [/U] fought in Vietnam. And he was awared a few puple hearts??? Well he probably did not deserve those medals! And, and ... I bet the soldiers he fought with hated him........ and and , he probalbly has an illegitamate black kid.... come on where are the swift boaters when you need them. Doesnt this guy know , he is hurting troop morale and bringing comfort to the enemy with this kind of talk. Hes anti-america! , unpatriotic, No .... wait I know.... hes with the turrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrristts!

08-22-2005, 10:59 AM	#3
AlbanyJet All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,623	I wish the media would frame 'winning' in Iraq within the context of their national security. If there weren't daily suicide bombings with US soldiers being killed no one would give a rat's tail about Iraq.

08-22-2005, 11:32 AM	#4
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,402	[QUOTE]I wish the media would frame 'winning' in Iraq within the context of their national security.[/QUOTE] The reason they are not doing this is because we have NO EVIDENCE that going to war in Iraq has anything to do with our national security.

08-22-2005, 11:41 AM	#5
sackdance All Pro Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,883	[QUOTE=kennyo7]What does he know about war? Oh... he [U]actually [/U] fought in Vietnam. And he was awared a few puple hearts???[/QUOTE] Prospective presidential candidate. Knows his share about politics, too.

08-22-2005, 11:52 AM	#6
quantum GFY Snatchez! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI Posts: 17,892	I object to anyone saying that Iraq is looking more and more like Vietnam: its done either out of stupidity, or to score political points. The main difference is that the South Vietnamese were tired of their corrupt leaders and no longer willing to fight; the US was more concerned about South Vietnam than the South Vietnamese. What happened was inevitable. This is not the case in Iraq: most Iraqis are happy Hussein is gone; the Kurds and most Shiites back us; and the Sunnis are slowly coming around. Something like 90% of the insurgents aren't even Iraqi. Totally different, but it makes a hell of a sound bite to get people's attention. :rolleyes:

08-22-2005, 12:10 PM	#7
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,402	[QUOTE]Something like 90% of the insurgents aren't even Iraqi. [/QUOTE] Where did you get this number from????

08-22-2005, 12:18 PM	#8
quantum GFY Snatchez! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI Posts: 17,892	[QUOTE=kennyo7]Where did you get this number from????[/QUOTE] It was in the papers a few months ago, courtesy of some organization that did the research. IIRC, 42% were Saudis.

08-22-2005, 01:22 PM	#9
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=quantum]IIRC, 42% were Saudis.[/QUOTE] you mean our ALLIES? the Saudis? no way. Those guys are our friends! [IMG]http://www.americanpolitics.com/mopaulbushabdullah.jpg[/IMG]

08-24-2005, 09:21 AM	#10
quantum GFY Snatchez! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI Posts: 17,892	[QUOTE=bitonti]you mean our ALLIES? the Saudis? no way. Those guys are our friends! [IMG]http://www.americanpolitics.com/mopaulbushabdullah.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Nice photoshop work :rolleyes: Not all Saudis are our friends, much like not all Jets fans have brains (not talking about you) :D

08-24-2005, 09:54 AM	#11
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=quantum]Nice photoshop work :rolleyes: Not all Saudis are our friends, much like not all Jets fans have brains (not talking about you) :D[/QUOTE] you said this the last time I posted that picture - it's not photoshop. It's common knowledge. Bush really does Kiss abdullah - it's a sign of affection between muslims. Bush has also been seen holding hands with abdullah - they are very tight and have been for years. Maybe you believe our leader has more morals then to kiss a man whose country is responsible for 9-11. Guess what he doesn't.

08-24-2005, 10:01 AM	#12
sackdance All Pro Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,883	[QUOTE=bitonti] I posted that picture - it's not photoshop.[/QUOTE] Just stop it, seriously. Whatever shreds of credibility you have is lost with this sentence. Look at that picture.

08-24-2005, 10:11 AM	#13
Section109Row15 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 3,406	[QUOTE=sackdance]Just stop it, seriously. Whatever shreds of credibility you have is lost with this sentence. Look at that picture.[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2005/images/abdullakiss2.jpg[/img]

08-24-2005, 10:24 AM	#14
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=sackdance]Just stop it, seriously. Whatever shreds of credibility you have is lost with this sentence. Look at that picture.[/QUOTE] sackdance you might not want to believe that our President is capable of kissing King Abdullah on the lips but it happened. Do a google image search "Bush Abdullah" you will find dozens of examples of such affection.

08-24-2005, 10:45 AM	#15
sackdance All Pro Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,883	[QUOTE=bitonti]sackdance you might not want to believe that our President is capable of kissing King Abdullah on the lips but it happened. Do a google image search "Bush Abdullah" you will find dozens of examples of such affection.[/QUOTE] No, I am talking about that specific picture, with Bush kissing the King over his shoulder on the lips. [B]It is patently absurd for you to say that's not photoshopped![/B] Are you an idiot? What the hell are you focusing on anyway, whether the President kisses a foreign leader? This would be normal protocol. What, Bush is gay now? Bush is in love with Abdullah? Bush is secret best friends with him? Grow up!

08-24-2005, 10:49 AM	#16
Section109Row15 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 3,406	[QUOTE=sackdance]No, I am talking about that specific picture, with Bush kissing the King over his shoulder on the lips. [b]It is patently absurd for you to say that's not photoshopped![/b] Are you an idiot? What the hell are you focusing on anyway, whether the President kisses a foreign leader? This would be normal protocol. What, Bush is gay now? Bush is in love with Abdullah? Bush is secret best friends with him? Grow up![/QUOTE] Its no secret, Bush is very good friends with Abdullah as well as other prominent Saudi's like Bahndar and other royals.

08-24-2005, 11:15 AM	#17
sackdance All Pro Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,883	[QUOTE=Section109Row15]Its no secret, Bush is very good friends with Abdullah as well as other prominent Saudi's like Bahndar and other royals.[/QUOTE] Who f'ing cares? Why should he not be on friendly terms, section? Feel free to try and make the case that Bush is more sympathetic with the House of Saud than the United States. Dumber logic is employed regularly by leftists everyday, no reason why you shouldn't try to pass this off as well.

08-24-2005, 11:19 AM	#18
Section109Row15 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 3,406	[QUOTE=sackdance]Who f'ing cares? Why should he not be on friendly terms, section? Feel free to try and make the case that Bush is more sympathetic with the House of Saud than the United States. Dumber logic is employed regularly by leftists everyday, no reason why you shouldn't try to pass this off as well.[/QUOTE] Its not about being friendly with them, it is that the Bush family has a long history with the Saudis. The Saudi's have poored a lot of money into the Bush family oil endevours along with the Carlyle Group. Prince Bahndar is called Bahndar Bush because the Bush's see him as an extended member of their family.

09-21-2005, 01:40 PM	#19
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=sackdance] What the hell are you focusing on anyway, whether the President kisses a foreign leader? This would be normal protocol. What, Bush is gay now? Bush is in love with Abdullah? Bush is secret best friends with him? Grow up![/QUOTE] I am focusing on the fact that our Leader is in cahoots with the head of a nation which supplies most of the world's anti-American terrorists. By the way it is an Islamic custom for men to be very affectionate toward each other in a physical way - holding hands, kissing etc. This is a cultural difference between Westerners and Middle Easterners. It is thought that because women are marginalized and hidden in the culture that the physical closeness between men compensates for that (but not in a gay way). Finally these pictures were NOT photoshopped at all! They are real! Bush and KING Abdullah have been close friends for decades.

09-21-2005, 01:55 PM	#20
quantum GFY Snatchez! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI Posts: 17,892	There are pix of them kissing, but that photo is NOT real. Section's are real.