Could you imagine???

bitonti · 09-07-2005, 03:47 PM

Could you imagine a world where John Kerry got 1.5% of the American voting public to turn the other way and vote for him - and Kerry was the current President?

Now imagine further that the entire Katrina disaster unfolded EXACTLY as it did last week. Every detail was essentially the same: Kerry flying back from one of his dozen vacation houses dipping his wings to see the damage - the corny and cold speech, the praise of Brownie's heck of a job, the "no one expected the levees to break" comment - laughing about the drunken escapdes in New Orleans he enjoyed in his youth - the ridiculously slow federal response, the horror presented by the press - everything the same except the man in charge.

My question is a simple one - if Kerry was in charge and the same exact disaster unfolded how many of you would be so quick to absolve Kerry of all blame and place it all on the feet of underfunded, undermanned and underbrained state and local officials?

Seriously I would prefer an honest answer. If Kerry was the Prez and he did the exact same job, how understanding would all of the GOP supporters on this site be? Would you all be saying "Kerry didn't cause the hurricane, you can't blame Kerry"

My guess is Kerry would be dodging impeachment proceedings right now.

jets5ever · 09-07-2005, 03:51 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti]Could you imagine a world where John Kerry got 1.5% of the American voting public to turn the other way and vote for him - and Kerry was the current President?

Now imagine further that the entire Katrina disaster unfolded EXACTLY as it did last week. Every detail was essentially the same: Kerry flying back from one of his dozen vacation houses dipping his wings to see the damage - everything the same except the man in charge.

My question is a simple one - if Kerry was in charge and the same exact disaster unfolded how many of you would be so quick to absolve Kerry of all blame and place it all on the feet of underfunded, undermanned and underbrained state and local officials?

Seriously I would prefer an honest answer. If Kerry was the Prez and he did the exact same job, how understanding would all of the GOP supporters on this site be?

My guess is Kerry would be dodging impeachment proceedings right now.[/QUOTE]

I would be acting exactly the same way, the way I reacted to Hurricane Andrew, etc.

I'll reverse it for you:

Imagine if the mayor of NO were a Repub, the governor of LA a repub, and the president a Dem, and everything else stayed the same regarding Katrina. You think guys like Section would be ripping the President and calling him a racist? Do you think YOU would be ripping the President? Put this cr*p on toast....

And the answer is... (drumroll) ...We are all biased Matt! Me, you, everyone! No newsflash there.

Grow up. You've become so friggin lame lately. You are whining like a f*cking little girl with a skinned knee. Get over yourself.

bitonti · 09-07-2005, 03:56 PM

[QUOTE=jets5ever]
Grow up. You've become so friggin lame lately. You are whining like a f*cking little girl with a skinned knee. Get over yourself.[/QUOTE]

thanks for not answering the question

I call em like I see em and Im not gonna back down.

if you don't like it maybe you shouldn't post abusive responses maybe you should just add me to your ignore list and be done with me.

quantum · 09-07-2005, 03:59 PM

Latest in: JI site hit counter goes off the scale; more advertising revenue pouring in! bit gets big bonus! ;)

inchadwetrust · 09-07-2005, 03:59 PM

Kerry would have blamed Bush.! :P

[QUOTE=bitonti]Could you imagine a world where John Kerry got 1.5% of the American voting public to turn the other way and vote for him - and Kerry was the current President?

Now imagine further that the entire Katrina disaster unfolded EXACTLY as it did last week. Every detail was essentially the same: Kerry flying back from one of his dozen vacation houses dipping his wings to see the damage - the corny and cold speech, the praise of Brownie's heck of a job, the "no one expected the levees to break" comment - laughing about the drunken escapdes in New Orleans he enjoyed in his youth - the ridiculously slow federal response, the horror presented by the press - everything the same except the man in charge.

My question is a simple one - if Kerry was in charge and the same exact disaster unfolded how many of you would be so quick to absolve Kerry of all blame and place it all on the feet of underfunded, undermanned and underbrained state and local officials?

Seriously I would prefer an honest answer. If Kerry was the Prez and he did the exact same job, how understanding would all of the GOP supporters on this site be? Would you all be saying "Kerry didn't cause the hurricane, you can't blame Kerry"

My guess is Kerry would be dodging impeachment proceedings right now.[/QUOTE]

jetswin · 09-07-2005, 04:04 PM

Thankfully, this is a scenario we don't have to imagine. :cool:

bitonti · 09-07-2005, 04:07 PM

[QUOTE=jetswin]Thankfully, this is a scenario we don't have to imagine. :cool:[/QUOTE]

thanks jetswin you really added alot to this discussion :zzz:

bitonti · 09-07-2005, 04:08 PM

[QUOTE=inchadwetrust]Kerry would have blamed Bush.! :P[/QUOTE]

that's probably a valid point - but would you have believed him?

Somehow our current President presides over the biggest federal botch job maybe ever and get's off scott free! Would President Kerry be so lucky?

quantum · 09-07-2005, 04:11 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti]thanks jetswin you really added alot to this discussion :zzz:[/QUOTE]

come now, bit - you're fishing for the answer you want to hear, no matter what we say; so:

bippity boppity boop :D

Come Back to NY · 09-07-2005, 04:20 PM

[QUOTE=quantum]

bippity boppity boop :D[/QUOTE]

DVD on October 17th...my 2 1/2 year old daughter is asking for it already....

jetswin · 09-07-2005, 04:25 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti]thanks jetswin you really added alot to this discussion :zzz:[/QUOTE]
Would you rather I stomp my feet and say it's all that dirty rotten Kerry's fault?

Mother nature cannot be controlled by a President, democrat or republican.

Section109Row15 · 09-07-2005, 04:26 PM

[QUOTE=jets5ever]I would be acting exactly the same way, the way I reacted to Hurricane Andrew, etc.

I'll reverse it for you:

Imagine if the mayor of NO were a Repub, the governor of LA a repub, and the president a Dem, and everything else stayed the same regarding Katrina. You think guys like Section would be ripping the President and calling him a racist? Do you think YOU would be ripping the President? Put this cr*p on toast....

And the answer is... (drumroll) ...We are all biased Matt! Me, you, everyone! No newsflash there.

Grow up. You've become so friggin lame lately. You are whining like a f*cking little girl with a skinned knee. Get over yourself.[/QUOTE]

When did I ever call Bush a racist?

Piper · 09-07-2005, 04:34 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti]My question is a simple one - if Kerry was in charge and the same exact disaster unfolded how many of you would be so quick to absolve Kerry of all blame and place it all on the feet of underfunded, undermanned and underbrained state and local officials?
[/QUOTE]
Yes. I never remember any past president being so directly blamed for natural disaster efforts, and quite frankly the thought never occurred to me to blame the president(past or present).

He gets the blame for his appontment of the FEMA head if that is where the failure was. But as has been said many times, there is alot of blame to go around.

You seem to be the only one who wants to park it all at the top.

Sadly.

jets5ever · 09-07-2005, 04:35 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti]thanks for not answering the question

I call em like I see em and Im not gonna back down.

if you don't like it maybe you shouldn't post abusive responses maybe you should just add me to your ignore list and be done with me.[/QUOTE]

I did answer your question, Matt. Read my post again. Your questions is invalid, since I would do neither of the two options your present. I would react the same way do to other natural disasters. I am not hysterical or immature. Oh, excuse me, scratch "hysterical and immature" and replace with "call em like I see em and won't back down." That sounds better, no?

inchadwetrust · 09-07-2005, 04:35 PM

believe the fault lies with the locals and state (especially for the activities within the first 3-4 days) ... and also the fault of the people who stayed and could have left.

[QUOTE=bitonti]that's probably a valid point - but would you have believed him?

Somehow our current President presides over the biggest federal botch job maybe ever and get's off scott free! Would President Kerry be so lucky?[/QUOTE]

jets5ever · 09-07-2005, 04:36 PM

[QUOTE=Section109Row15]When did I ever call Bush a racist?[/QUOTE]

You haven't...other critics have. I apologize for implying that you have.

sackdance · 09-07-2005, 04:44 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti]

I call em like I see em [/QUOTE]
You say this repeatedly as if you coined the term or something. Who the hell doesn't "call 'em like they see 'em"? Cockbreath. Oh, did I just write that?

Jetcane · 09-07-2005, 04:59 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti]thanks for not answering the question

I call em like I see em and Im not gonna back down.
[/QUOTE]

The problem is your blue-tinted glasses are shifted so far over to the left that your view of things is grossly distorted.

btw- I would react the same way- the major cause of the death and destruction was due to a natural disaster, and the inept planning was due to the incompetence of the mayor and governor. The delay of fema that may have resulted from inaction by the head of fema should result in his termination.

bitonti · 09-07-2005, 05:07 PM

well then I guess you guys are alot more understanding then i gave you credit for :rolleyes: *cough cough bullsh|t*

Lawyers, Guns and Money · 09-07-2005, 05:11 PM

I dont see the point of playing the blame game. None of these events in of of themselves are to blame. We can talk about how the levees were ignored for years by all levels of government, we could blame the 10 mil acres of marshland around the NO that were removed to for property development and to create navigateable waterways over the past 50+ years, we could talk about the the breakdown in communication and repsonse between the different levels over govt. etc, etc.

There is no easy or quick answer to this. We all want some easy answer and burn someone at the stake. Bloodthirst doesn slove problems. NO was a terrible Idea to begin with, that was exaserbated by terrible planning over the past 50+ years and Governmnet corruption on the city and state level sure didn't help matters.

I honestly believe the gov't in total,including but not limited to Bush, didn't realize the magnitude of this event. Can you blame them for that? To a degree, I can say yes. But the level of bloodthirst here is really mindboggling. It is irrational.

I will say this. If Kerry was President, NO might have played out different for this reason: More trust between politicans (Blanco and Kerry.) The divide between Reps and Dems has gotten so bad, I really believe that LA Blanco might have asked for federal help sooner. Taht is not an attack on Blanco as much as it is as the state of politics in the US were I believe distrust has gone too far. No doubt both sides are to blame for that.

Hope that answered it

09-07-2005, 03:47 PM	#1
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	Could you imagine??? Could you imagine a world where John Kerry got 1.5% of the American voting public to turn the other way and vote for him - and Kerry was the current President? Now imagine further that the entire Katrina disaster unfolded EXACTLY as it did last week. Every detail was essentially the same: Kerry flying back from one of his dozen vacation houses dipping his wings to see the damage - the corny and cold speech, the praise of Brownie's heck of a job, the "no one expected the levees to break" comment - laughing about the drunken escapdes in New Orleans he enjoyed in his youth - the ridiculously slow federal response, the horror presented by the press - everything the same except the man in charge. My question is a simple one - if Kerry was in charge and the same exact disaster unfolded how many of you would be so quick to absolve Kerry of all blame and place it all on the feet of underfunded, undermanned and underbrained state and local officials? Seriously I would prefer an honest answer. If Kerry was the Prez and he did the exact same job, how understanding would all of the GOP supporters on this site be? Would you all be saying "Kerry didn't cause the hurricane, you can't blame Kerry" My guess is Kerry would be dodging impeachment proceedings right now. Last edited by bitonti; 09-07-2005 at 03:50 PM.

09-07-2005, 03:56 PM	#3
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=jets5ever] Grow up. You've become so friggin lame lately. You are whining like a fcking little girl with a skinned knee. Get over yourself.[/QUOTE] thanks for not answering the question I call em like I see em and Im not gonna back down. if you don't like it maybe you shouldn't post abusive responses maybe you should just add me to your ignore list and be done with me. Last edited by bitonti; 09-07-2005 at 03:58 PM.*

09-07-2005, 04:35 PM	#14
jets5ever Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 11,692	[QUOTE=bitonti]thanks for not answering the question I call em like I see em and Im not gonna back down. if you don't like it maybe you shouldn't post abusive responses maybe you should just add me to your ignore list and be done with me.[/QUOTE] I did answer your question, Matt. Read my post again. Your questions is invalid, since I would do neither of the two options your present. I would react the same way do to other natural disasters. I am not hysterical or immature. Oh, excuse me, scratch "hysterical and immature" and replace with "call em like I see em and won't back down." That sounds better, no? Last edited by jets5ever; 09-07-2005 at 04:40 PM.

09-07-2005, 03:51 PM	#2
jets5ever Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 11,692	[QUOTE=bitonti]Could you imagine a world where John Kerry got 1.5% of the American voting public to turn the other way and vote for him - and Kerry was the current President? Now imagine further that the entire Katrina disaster unfolded EXACTLY as it did last week. Every detail was essentially the same: Kerry flying back from one of his dozen vacation houses dipping his wings to see the damage - everything the same except the man in charge. My question is a simple one - if Kerry was in charge and the same exact disaster unfolded how many of you would be so quick to absolve Kerry of all blame and place it all on the feet of underfunded, undermanned and underbrained state and local officials? Seriously I would prefer an honest answer. If Kerry was the Prez and he did the exact same job, how understanding would all of the GOP supporters on this site be? My guess is Kerry would be dodging impeachment proceedings right now.[/QUOTE] I would be acting exactly the same way, the way I reacted to Hurricane Andrew, etc. I'll reverse it for you: Imagine if the mayor of NO were a Repub, the governor of LA a repub, and the president a Dem, and everything else stayed the same regarding Katrina. You think guys like Section would be ripping the President and calling him a racist? Do you think YOU would be ripping the President? Put this crp on toast.... And the answer is... (drumroll) ...We are all biased Matt! Me, you, everyone! No newsflash there. Grow up. You've become so friggin lame lately. You are whining like a fcking little girl with a skinned knee. Get over yourself.

09-07-2005, 03:59 PM	#4
quantum GFY Snatchez! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI Posts: 17,905	Latest in: JI site hit counter goes off the scale; more advertising revenue pouring in! bit gets big bonus! ;)

09-07-2005, 03:59 PM	#5
inchadwetrust All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,642	Kerry would have blamed Bush.! :P [QUOTE=bitonti]Could you imagine a world where John Kerry got 1.5% of the American voting public to turn the other way and vote for him - and Kerry was the current President? Now imagine further that the entire Katrina disaster unfolded EXACTLY as it did last week. Every detail was essentially the same: Kerry flying back from one of his dozen vacation houses dipping his wings to see the damage - the corny and cold speech, the praise of Brownie's heck of a job, the "no one expected the levees to break" comment - laughing about the drunken escapdes in New Orleans he enjoyed in his youth - the ridiculously slow federal response, the horror presented by the press - everything the same except the man in charge. My question is a simple one - if Kerry was in charge and the same exact disaster unfolded how many of you would be so quick to absolve Kerry of all blame and place it all on the feet of underfunded, undermanned and underbrained state and local officials? Seriously I would prefer an honest answer. If Kerry was the Prez and he did the exact same job, how understanding would all of the GOP supporters on this site be? Would you all be saying "Kerry didn't cause the hurricane, you can't blame Kerry" My guess is Kerry would be dodging impeachment proceedings right now.[/QUOTE]

09-07-2005, 04:04 PM	#6
jetswin stumblin mumblin butt fumblin Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Westchester Co. Posts: 35,465	Thankfully, this is a scenario we don't have to imagine. :cool:

09-07-2005, 04:07 PM	#7
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=jetswin]Thankfully, this is a scenario we don't have to imagine. :cool:[/QUOTE] thanks jetswin you really added alot to this discussion :zzz:

09-07-2005, 04:08 PM	#8
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=inchadwetrust]Kerry would have blamed Bush.! :P[/QUOTE] that's probably a valid point - but would you have believed him? Somehow our current President presides over the biggest federal botch job maybe ever and get's off scott free! Would President Kerry be so lucky?

09-07-2005, 04:11 PM	#9
quantum GFY Snatchez! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI Posts: 17,905	[QUOTE=bitonti]thanks jetswin you really added alot to this discussion :zzz:[/QUOTE] come now, bit - you're fishing for the answer you want to hear, no matter what we say; so: bippity boppity boop :D

09-07-2005, 04:20 PM	#10
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[QUOTE=quantum] bippity boppity boop :D[/QUOTE] DVD on October 17th...my 2 1/2 year old daughter is asking for it already....

09-07-2005, 04:25 PM	#11
jetswin stumblin mumblin butt fumblin Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Westchester Co. Posts: 35,465	[QUOTE=bitonti]thanks jetswin you really added alot to this discussion :zzz:[/QUOTE] Would you rather I stomp my feet and say it's all that dirty rotten Kerry's fault? Mother nature cannot be controlled by a President, democrat or republican.

09-07-2005, 04:26 PM	#12
Section109Row15 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 3,406	[QUOTE=jets5ever]I would be acting exactly the same way, the way I reacted to Hurricane Andrew, etc. I'll reverse it for you: Imagine if the mayor of NO were a Repub, the governor of LA a repub, and the president a Dem, and everything else stayed the same regarding Katrina. You think guys like Section would be ripping the President and calling him a racist? Do you think YOU would be ripping the President? Put this crp on toast.... And the answer is... (drumroll) ...We are all biased Matt! Me, you, everyone! No newsflash there. Grow up. You've become so friggin lame lately. You are whining like a fcking little girl with a skinned knee. Get over yourself.[/QUOTE] When did I ever call Bush a racist?

09-07-2005, 04:34 PM	#13
Piper Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: L.I. NY (where the Jets used to be from) Posts: 13,197	[QUOTE=bitonti]My question is a simple one - if Kerry was in charge and the same exact disaster unfolded how many of you would be so quick to absolve Kerry of all blame and place it all on the feet of underfunded, undermanned and underbrained state and local officials? [/QUOTE] Yes. I never remember any past president being so directly blamed for natural disaster efforts, and quite frankly the thought never occurred to me to blame the president(past or present). He gets the blame for his appontment of the FEMA head if that is where the failure was. But as has been said many times, there is alot of blame to go around. You seem to be the only one who wants to park it all at the top. Sadly.

09-07-2005, 04:36 PM	#16
jets5ever Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 11,692	[QUOTE=Section109Row15]When did I ever call Bush a racist?[/QUOTE] You haven't...other critics have. I apologize for implying that you have.

09-07-2005, 04:44 PM	#17
sackdance All Pro Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,887	[QUOTE=bitonti] I call em like I see em [/QUOTE] You say this repeatedly as if you coined the term or something. Who the hell doesn't "call 'em like they see 'em"? Cockbreath. Oh, did I just write that?

09-07-2005, 04:59 PM	#18
Jetcane Hall Of Fame Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,430	[QUOTE=bitonti]thanks for not answering the question I call em like I see em and Im not gonna back down. [/QUOTE] The problem is your blue-tinted glasses are shifted so far over to the left that your view of things is grossly distorted. btw- I would react the same way- the major cause of the death and destruction was due to a natural disaster, and the inept planning was due to the incompetence of the mayor and governor. The delay of fema that may have resulted from inaction by the head of fema should result in his termination.

09-07-2005, 05:07 PM	#19
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	well then I guess you guys are alot more understanding then i gave you credit for :rolleyes: cough cough bullsh\|t

09-07-2005, 05:11 PM	#20
Lawyers, Guns and Money Veteran Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenwich Village, NY Posts: 2,229	I dont see the point of playing the blame game. None of these events in of of themselves are to blame. We can talk about how the levees were ignored for years by all levels of government, we could blame the 10 mil acres of marshland around the NO that were removed to for property development and to create navigateable waterways over the past 50+ years, we could talk about the the breakdown in communication and repsonse between the different levels over govt. etc, etc. There is no easy or quick answer to this. We all want some easy answer and burn someone at the stake. Bloodthirst doesn slove problems. NO was a terrible Idea to begin with, that was exaserbated by terrible planning over the past 50+ years and Governmnet corruption on the city and state level sure didn't help matters. I honestly believe the gov't in total,including but not limited to Bush, didn't realize the magnitude of this event. Can you blame them for that? To a degree, I can say yes. But the level of bloodthirst here is really mindboggling. It is irrational. I will say this. If Kerry was President, NO might have played out different for this reason: More trust between politicans (Blanco and Kerry.) The divide between Reps and Dems has gotten so bad, I really believe that LA Blanco might have asked for federal help sooner. Taht is not an attack on Blanco as much as it is as the state of politics in the US were I believe distrust has gone too far. No doubt both sides are to blame for that. Hope that answered it