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Thread: Its that time of the year again: HOT STOVE

  1. #1
    TMahoney
    Guest

    Its that time of the year again: HOT STOVE

    Its the most fruitful time of the year for a New York Met fan. Our organization always likes to make a splash in free-agency and mix in a couple of trades to boot. I call this the best time of the year for Met fans because we can simply project our team to be great without being severely let down night after night in the regular season.

    With that being said, here are a couple of things I've read and hope happen. Feel free to post your thoughts.

    The NY post today had an article discussing the Mets interest in AJ Burnett, the former mets prospect turned Marlins starter. Heres a guy with lots of potential and still young enough to reach it. We need to sign this guy. Break the bank and take this guy away from your division rivals and bolster your starting rotation. Some of you might say: Hey, Carl, why sign starting pitchers, this team needs a bullpen you crazy groundskeeper?

    Well let a man finish before you decide get all Judge Smails on me.

    The blockbuster move of the offseason will involve Manny Ramirez, and the Mets need to be the team aquiring him.

    Heres the deal, we give Boston Mike Cameron, Kris Benson and Aaron Heilman for Manny Ramirez.

    Thats why we need AJ Burnett, we'll be giving some good young pitchers away for some offense, so we need to make sure we recoup that spot in our rotation.

    Cameron's gone, and good riddance, he had a nice streak but ended up as the same old strikeout machine who we don't even really need in the field anyways.

    Benson is a good pitcher but you got to give good players to aquire good players, enough said. Too bad his wife can't stay though.

    Heilman was black balled by Willie and Peterson, so unless they know something we don't know, they look like fools for not playing him more. If we're not going to use him then we might as well trade the kid.

    Boston will be getting a CF to replace Damon, and some much needed pitching help to bolster their rotation.

    As for first base, if Meinketwitcz didn't talk his way out of NY I would've kept him because we filled the offensive hole but hey if he doesn't like NY than F*ck him. We don't need a superstar here, just a guy who can play defense and bat over .250. John Olerud anyone? Bring him back, hes a bargain.

    The final move is the most critical. Sign Billy Wagner. Its simple enough, just cough up the dough and give him the money. Offer more than philly and court the player as if he were Mariano Rivera. We need him that badly so just get it done.

    So the team will look something like this:

    1. Jose Reyes SS
    2. Carlos Beltran CF
    3. David Wright 3B
    4. Manny Ramirez RF
    5. Cliff Floyd LF
    6. John Olerud 1B
    7. Kaz Matsui 2B
    8. Ramon Castro C
    9. Pitcher

    Pedro Martinez
    AJ Burnett
    Tom Glavine
    Jae Seo
    Steve Trachsel/Zambrano

    Billy Wagner - Closer
    Looper for the 8th

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by CarlSpackler
    Its the most fruitful time of the year for a New York Met fan. Our organization always likes to make a splash in free-agency and mix in a couple of trades to boot. I call this the best time of the year for Met fans because we can simply project our team to be great without being severely let down night after night in the regular season.

    With that being said, here are a couple of things I've read and hope happen. Feel free to post your thoughts.

    The NY post today had an article discussing the Mets interest in AJ Burnett, the former mets prospect turned Marlins starter. Heres a guy with lots of potential and still young enough to reach it. We need to sign this guy. Break the bank and take this guy away from your division rivals and bolster your starting rotation. Some of you might say: Hey, Carl, why sign starting pitchers, this team needs a bullpen you crazy groundskeeper?

    Well let a man finish before you decide get all Judge Smails on me.

    The blockbuster move of the offseason will involve Manny Ramirez, and the Mets need to be the team aquiring him.

    Heres the deal, we give Boston Mike Cameron, Kris Benson and Aaron Heilman for Manny Ramirez.

    Thats why we need AJ Burnett, we'll be giving some good young pitchers away for some offense, so we need to make sure we recoup that spot in our rotation.

    Cameron's gone, and good riddance, he had a nice streak but ended up as the same old strikeout machine who we don't even really need in the field anyways.

    Benson is a good pitcher but you got to give good players to aquire good players, enough said. Too bad his wife can't stay though.

    Heilman was black balled by Willie and Peterson, so unless they know something we don't know, they look like fools for not playing him more. If we're not going to use him then we might as well trade the kid.

    Boston will be getting a CF to replace Damon, and some much needed pitching help to bolster their rotation.

    As for first base, if Meinketwitcz didn't talk his way out of NY I would've kept him because we filled the offensive hole but hey if he doesn't like NY than F*ck him. We don't need a superstar here, just a guy who can play defense and bat over .250. John Olerud anyone? Bring him back, hes a bargain.

    The final move is the most critical. Sign Billy Wagner. Its simple enough, just cough up the dough and give him the money. Offer more than philly and court the player as if he were Mariano Rivera. We need him that badly so just get it done.

    So the team will look something like this:

    1. Jose Reyes SS
    2. Carlos Beltran CF
    3. David Wright 3B
    4. Manny Ramirez RF
    5. Cliff Floyd LF
    6. John Olerud 1B
    7. Kaz Matsui 2B
    8. Ramon Castro C
    9. Pitcher

    Pedro Martinez
    AJ Burnett
    Tom Glavine
    Jae Seo
    Steve Trachsel/Zambrano

    Billy Wagner - Closer
    Looper for the 8th

    first of all you're giving up way too much for manny ramirez. heilman, cameron, AND benson? thats just too much to give up for one guy who can't even play left field at fenway. i agree with the agner signing. i'd love to see burnett also. looper most likely won't be a met.

  3. #3
    TMahoney
    Guest
    Manny isn't going to come cheap, I made a trade that was fair, its not like we're getting a steal, but instead of saying thats too much, propose one that you think Boston would likely accept instead.

  4. #4
    Your going to have to give up Lastings Milledge in the Manny deal - which is why I wouldn't want to do it if I was a Met fan and why I don't want the deal to be done as a Yankee fan.

  5. #5
    TMahoney
    Guest
    I don't think we have to give Milledge.

    Heilman, Benson and Cameron is definately sweet enough for Boston.

    They need a CF and pitching. We're giving them an excellent defensive CF and young pitchers.

    We don't need to give up our best prospect.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CarlSpackler
    I don't think we have to give Milledge.

    Heilman, Benson and Cameron is definately sweet enough for Boston.

    They need a CF and pitching. We're giving them an excellent defensive CF and young pitchers.

    We don't need to give up our best prospect.
    Mark my words. We will NOT get Manny without giving up Milledge. Chances are, we will have to give up Cameron, Milledge, and either Petit or Heilman. Then we get to take on Manny's fat contract. I'm telling you, if you can get past the fantasy baseball mentality, there a million reasons not to deal for Manny.

  7. #7
    I love this time of year, especially now that the Mets are clearly a team on the rise. That being said, I hate to the voice of reason, but I am a die hard Mets fan who is praying that we do NOT get Manny. I know he's the sexiest name out there, and a prolific offensive player, but there are other concerns here that we must consider:

    First off, we could not get him for Cameron, Heilman, and Benson. Cameron would be in the deal, but after that, Boston is looking for high-end prospects and cash flexibility. Benson does not fit their plans. We'd likely have to give up Milledge and Petit along with Cameron to get Manny.

    Second, Manny is an absolute butcher in the field... the worst defensive outfielder since Glenallen Hill was an everyday player. His attitude often sucks, and the his contempt for the press will not go over well in NY. That's not to say that Boston is Milwaukee or anything, but NY is whole different monster.

    Third, and most importantly, we NEED that $20 million a year elsewhere. People forget, we are not the Yankees. I don't care if Manny hits .340 with 50 HR, if we don't address other issues, this team cannot win. The bullpen must be rebuilt, starting with Wagner, who will likely demand almost $10M annually. We have to sign Molina, Ramon Hernandez, or the Japanese catcher. We need a first baseman, and we'd like to get Matsui out of the lineup. It's easy to look at Manny's stats and say he's awesome, let's get him. Look deeper and see the bigger picture.

    Konerko is a better fit. He'll come cheaper than Manny, and fill a gaping hole... our need for a power hitting first baseman. Jacobs showed much promise, but for a team that I think can win now , I'm not willing to take a gamble at a pivotal position like that.

    Cameron is no superstar, but his position should be last on our list of things we need to address. Our priorities should be elsewhere. Plus, in case nobody knows, Lastings Milledge is a hell of a prospect. Cameron's contract runs out in 2007, just about the time Milledge should be ready to make his major league debut. How about a little foresight, people?

    We should all be praying that Anaheim trades for Manny, and here's why: Most people seem to think that the three most likely suitors for Konerko, should he not re-sign with Chicago, will be Boston, Anaheim, and the Mets. As of right now, I would say he's headed for the Halos... However, if they go splurge on Manny, they probably won't be able to afford Konerko too. Because of the turmoil that's going on in Beantown right now, I say that would make us the frontrunner for Konerko.

    There are a million reasons to stay away from Manny. For once, let's use our heads and not just jump at the sexy name, completely disregarding the consequences. I completely agree with you on Burnett, he is gonna be a huge addition somewhere, and I hope it's Queens. Konerko is out there. Furcal is out there. Wagner is out there. There are three intriguing catchers out there (I like Castro for what he is, a good backup). Now is most definitely NOT the time to spend $20M a year on Manny. This is not fantasy baseball, its the real thing.

  8. #8
    i think first things first. we sign wagner. that takes care of closer. that also gives us the insurance we'll need to go out and sign a pitche rlike burnett (which is looking like a pretty tempting move). could you imagine our rotation of martinez, burnett, glavine, benson, trachsel. that would easily be one of the top rotations in the major leagues. plus with heilman, hernandez, and wagner closing. we would have a championship calibur pitching staff. in that case we could probably sign furcal and molina and be set. i still think furcal probably stays in atlanta, in which case we could try to trade for soriano or kent. idk if either of those are possible, but it would be take care of some run production. i've also heard julio lugo nd aubrey huff's names thrown around in trade talks. i imagine cameron is part of that deal, which means we give up a little defense but replace that with the run production of huff (even though it seems he had a down year last year). lugo is intriguing with his stolen bases, the mets with a batting order that had reyes, lugo, beltran on top would be a menace on the bases. that would work out with furcal also though. could you imagine in a scenario like this with our batting order: reyes, lugo, beltran, huff, wright, floyd, jacobs, molina, pitcher. with the above roation and a good bullpen? idk whats going to happen but it all sounds very enticing. i think 2006 may finally be a good year to be a mets fan again.

  9. #9
    TMahoney
    Guest
    Manny is a beast, I don't care about his fielding.

    If worse comes to worse than I'm ok to give up Milledge, I don't care.

    I want offense, Wagner and hell Konerko to boot.

    If Konerko does come cheap why the hell not get him as well as Manny.

    Theres no reason the Mets can't afford it, and we could seriously use the help.

    Reyes Beltran Wright Manny Konerko Floyd

    JESUS CHRIST that is a great 1-6.

  10. #10
    Manny is most likely on the downside of his career and is overpaid. Lastings Milledge is going to be a great player. You can use that money in better areas and keep the prospects. Trading for Manny will be a big mistake - especially as he continues to decline with age. I'm really hoping he stays with the red sox.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    Manny is most likely on the downside of his career and is overpaid. Lastings Milledge is going to be a great player. You can use that money in better areas and keep the prospects. Trading for Manny will be a big mistake - especially as he continues to decline with age. I'm really hoping he stays with the red sox.
    Yep, if we take on Manny's contract... no way should we give them anything worthwhile. Unfortunately, I don't think the Mets will be able to find that big bat in the lineup, but if they get a closer, a legit #2 pitcher (Burnett hopefully), Wright stays on pace and Beltran gets back to what he was - the Mets should have a playoff contender.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by broadwayjoe
    Mark my words. We will NOT get Manny without giving up Milledge. Chances are, we will have to give up Cameron, Milledge, and either Petit or Heilman. Then we get to take on Manny's fat contract. I'm telling you, if you can get past the fantasy baseball mentality, there a million reasons not to deal for Manny.
    I believe Manny will get dealt for much less than fair value, since they want to free up cash to fill multiple holes.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by CarlSpackler
    Manny is a beast, I don't care about his fielding.

    If worse comes to worse than I'm ok to give up Milledge, I don't care.

    I want offense, Wagner and hell Konerko to boot.

    If Konerko does come cheap why the hell not get him as well as Manny.

    Theres no reason the Mets can't afford it, and we could seriously use the help.

    Reyes Beltran Wright Manny Konerko Floyd

    JESUS CHRIST that is a great 1-6.
    1. I promise, when you watch him day in and day out, you WILL care about his fielding... he is THAT bad.

    2. Konerko coming CHEAP? Are you kidding me? Cheaper than Manny. Not Cheap by any means. At least $14M per. Exactly my point before, we are not the Yanks. Let's get him as well as Manny? It's called reality man, look into it. That is exactly my point. We cannot afford Manny AND address the holes that need patching.

    3. There's no reason the Mets can't afford it. Allow me to speak for anyone who understands and say, WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!? Wagner - Manny - Konerko = $45M annually. Not to mention the money we still need to spend elsewhere. Pick up a newspaper once in a while dude.

    4. Yes that is a great 1-6, but anyone who watched all of five Met games last year that WON'T MEAN D*CK without a drastically improved bullpen. See the bigger picture, please. We spend our money in the right places, this team can contend NOW. You want to be a .500 team with an MVP candidate... fine, go get Manny.

  14. #14
    TMahoney
    Guest
    Brooklyn Bound knows what hes talking about.

    Manny has said he wants to be traded and that always lowers your value. Furthermore hes owed huge sums of money and is no longer young. But can he still hit? YES.

    So we give Cameron, Heilman and Benson. Thats more than enough.

    In return we get Manny.

    Sign AJ Burnett.

    Overpay for Wagner.

    Konerko, well it'd be nice to get him but I doubt we do.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CarlSpackler
    Brooklyn Bound knows what hes talking about.

    Manny has said he wants to be traded and that always lowers your value. Furthermore hes owed huge sums of money and is no longer young. But can he still hit? YES.

    So we give Cameron, Heilman and Benson. Thats more than enough.

    In return we get Manny.

    Sign AJ Burnett.

    Overpay for Wagner.

    Konerko, well it'd be nice to get him but I doubt we do.
    Nobody is debating the fact that Manny can hit. I'll tell you what, if you can get Manny for Cameron, Heilman, and Benson, then you can make a case for doing it. It doesn't hit us in the pocketbook as hard, and we get to hang on to Milledge. We replace Benson with Burnett, like you said. Problem is, we cannot get him for that price.

    In moving Manny, Boston is looking to trim major payroll to make other
    moves. Cameron, Heilman, and Benson will make a combined $21M in 2006. Ramirez will make $19M. That's why Boston wants guys like Lastings Milledge and Yumeiro Petit. It is the same reason they're trying to center a potential Manny deal with Anaheim around Ervin Santana and Howie Kendrick. Come on dude. Do the math. Everyone, including me, likes Manny's offensive abilities, but this is just a bad fit, plain and simple.

  16. #16
    TMahoney
    Guest
    Yes but they'll be paying 2 million more for another 2 positions. They get an outfielder back and 2 pitchers.

    Nobody is equal to Manny but hey, we all know how the sports world works. Randy Moss was traded for a mediocore linebacker and a first round pick. Manny is leaving Boston and they need a CF and pitching.

    We're one of the only teams that can afford his contract. Its simple, all I'm saying is that it could happen and I want it to happen.

    I understand your side, you don't want it to happen, but I would never say never on deals like this.

    Minaya will work some magic.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CarlSpackler
    Brooklyn Bound knows what hes talking about.

    Manny has said he wants to be traded and that always lowers your value. Furthermore hes owed huge sums of money and is no longer young. But can he still hit? YES.

    So we give Cameron, Heilman and Benson. Thats more than enough.
    Usually when a player requests a trade, it lowers his value but not so much in this case. Manny always wants to be traded and never is and he still hits the crap out of the ball. So, the red sox know that even if they keep him, he's still going to produce like he has been. He can still hit but I don't think he's going to continue to hit like he has. He'll still be a great hitter, just not as great as he has been.

    Lastly, I don't think Kris Benson has much value for the red sox during the offseason. They can just sign a pitcher instead of taking on Benson. Why not just sign Millwood or Washburn instead of taking Benson as part of the package? They are gong to want (and receive if the trade happens) Lastings Milledge.

    If I'm a Met fan I want to keep all the prospects. I'd sign Burnett and trade Zambrano (who has more value than Benson because of his salary) for a prospect or two. Sign Ramon Hernandez or the Japanese guy. Trade Cameron and go hard after Konerko and/or Furcal. You'll need to find a RFer but maybe Diaz can take that job. And, of course, sign Wagner, Hoffman, Ryan, or Gordon (in that order) for the closers job and Octavio Dotel to setup. Maybe also Taveras for 7th inning work.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    Usually when a player requests a trade, it lowers his value but not so much in this case. Manny always wants to be traded and never is and he still hits the crap out of the ball. So, the red sox know that even if they keep him, he's still going to produce like he has been. He can still hit but I don't think he's going to continue to hit like he has. He'll still be a great hitter, just not as great as he has been.

    Lastly, I don't think Kris Benson has much value for the red sox during the offseason. They can just sign a pitcher instead of taking on Benson. Why not just sign Millwood or Washburn instead of taking Benson as part of the package? They are gong to want (and receive if the trade happens) Lastings Milledge.

    If I'm a Met fan I want to keep all the prospects. I'd sign Burnett and trade Zambrano (who has more value than Benson because of his salary) for a prospect or two. Sign Ramon Hernandez or the Japanese guy. Trade Cameron and go hard after Konerko and/or Furcal. You'll need to find a RFer but maybe Diaz can take that job. And, of course, sign Wagner, Hoffman, Ryan, or Gordon (in that order) for the closers job and Octavio Dotel to setup. Maybe also Taveras for 7th inning work.

    not that manny isn't worth it, but i just don't want to see us give up that much talent for one player who maybe able to hit (which like you say will most likely start to see a decline), but who doen't even play a good left firld in fenway park. this is shea stadium guys. you NEED to have decent fielders around here. trading cameron is fine, but i don't know that i like the idea of diaz taking over as our everyday RF. if it's a choice between getting furcal or konerko, i take furcal. jacobs can man 1st base, maybe in a platoon. but a top of the order with furcal, reyes, beltran is just very enticing. obviously wagner is the key this offseason. we could have won 5 more games easy with a closer of his stature. replacing piazza behinf the plate is a must. but i don;t kjnow if i like the idea of this japanese guy. first of all power numbers don't seem to translate well form japan to america, not to mention the fact that he'd be playing in a pitchers ballpark. he doesn't speak english very well, and he knows zilch about any of the american hitters. i'd like to see us get a guy like molina.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by neckdemon
    not that manny isn't worth it, but i just don't want to see us give up that much talent for one player who maybe able to hit (which like you say will most likely start to see a decline), but who doen't even play a good left firld in fenway park. this is shea stadium guys. you NEED to have decent fielders around here. trading cameron is fine, but i don't know that i like the idea of diaz taking over as our everyday RF. if it's a choice between getting furcal or konerko, i take furcal. jacobs can man 1st base, maybe in a platoon. but a top of the order with furcal, reyes, beltran is just very enticing. obviously wagner is the key this offseason. we could have won 5 more games easy with a closer of his stature. replacing piazza behinf the plate is a must. but i don;t kjnow if i like the idea of this japanese guy. first of all power numbers don't seem to translate well form japan to america, not to mention the fact that he'd be playing in a pitchers ballpark. he doesn't speak english very well, and he knows zilch about any of the american hitters. i'd like to see us get a guy like molina.
    I completely agree on the Japanese guy. I'm leaning towards Ramon Hernandez myself, but I have a feeling we're gonna sign Molina.

  20. #20
    By the way neckdemon, not sure if you saw it, but Furcal is reportedly expecting 5-6 years in the vicinity of $50 million. Might just be his agent blowing smoke, but I would not go anywhere close to those figures for Furcal. Another thing to think about is the fact that Furcal's high asking price is partially based around the cannon that he has. That would be somewhat wasted if we moved him to 2nd (where Furcal has played exactly five games over the last five years). I think this lineup has enough speed, especially if Beltran is 100%. What it lacks so much is a thumper to get the guys at the top of the lineup some more fastballs. Konerko is that guy. (It's pretty clear that I want Konerko, huh?) Regardless, you're dead on about one thing: Wagner is the key.

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