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Thread: Congressman John Murtha gets it right

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=jetsmetsrangers]Jets5ever, I agree that many democrats use this as a political issue just as republicans use 911 as a political benefit...My feeling is that although there has been progress over in Iraq, that has been under reported, there has also been many mistakes in the prosecution of this war and as americans we do have the right to question whether this war is being fought the best way to protect our troops without being called slime or terrorist loving Libs and the like........I care as much about our kids over there as much as anyone and the people who use this for strictly political gains are worthless, but to blindly not see any problems, with the way the war has been waged and not allow true dissent in this country by smearing anyone against the war is equally disturbing.....I know you yourself have stated that there have been problems with the war and i am sure you would want the best plans put forth in this effort.[/QUOTE]

    Though I'm not 5ever I found your post interesting...

    Questioning the war or the way it is presently being handled is one thing...being hypocritical is another (and that is not directed towards you)....

    Do you think the hatred toward liberals and venom shot at them has anything to do with their leaders??

    Leaders in the democrat party such as harry reid or john edwards who gave a thumbs up for the war are now, barely three years later, saying "pull out" and "we were lied to....the intelligence was manipulated" even after two congressional investigations proved otherwise and without a shred of evidence.

    Yet now they want a third investigation and will want a fourth investigation and a fifth until they get the answer they want....

    These aren't posters on a message board these are political leaders who voted to send troops into battle...

    As I type this I am watching a morning talk shows and a dim is talking about "real and present problems with terrorism in places such as Iran and N. Korea..." Why weren't these problems addressed in the 90's in places like N. Korea, Iran, Iraq and Afgahnistan???

    Buying a terrorist nation like N. Korea off with zillions of gallons of oil while you turn your head as they develop nuclear warheads in not addressing the problem...

    Finally- for me anyway- the libs are represented by the following...

    Present- if you did not fight in the Vietnam war but support actions abroad today you are a chicken hawk...

    Yesterday- if you fought in the Vietnam war you were a baby killer, guilty of rape, pillaged town and destroyed the land via Genhgis Kahn....just ask jean kerri!
    Last edited by Come Back to NY; 11-20-2005 at 11:15 AM.

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE][B]two congressional investigations proved otherwise and without a shred of evidence.[/B][/QUOTE]


    Once again this is simply not true. The two investigations simply showed that the administration did not pressure intelligence agencies to fix the intelligence to help support the push to war. This is not what we are accusing them of doing. All we are saying is that the administration, selectively chose certain intelligence (for instance the Iraq-AQ connection provided by al-Libi even after knowing that he was making it up) , they purposely did not present an accurate portrayal of how strong (or in this instance how weak) the intelligence was to the public (there were numerous instances where Bush, Cheyney, and Rummie said there is strong evidence supporting..... when this was simply not true), and they did [U]not[/U] present/consider the intelligence available that supported NOT going to war.


    These 3 questions have [B]never[/B] been investigated.

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE][B]Present- if you did not fight in the Vietnam war but support actions abroad today you are a chicken hawk...[/B][/QUOTE]

    Wrong again!

    You are a CHICKENHAWK if you [U]actively avoided [/U] fighting in Vietnam (if you were eligible) but [U]supported[/U] fighting the [I]Vietnam [/I] War.


    All we are saying is that people who have served this country and fought in a war have better insight as to the serious nature of fighting in wars. They understand the effects war has on a human being years after he has fought and better appreciates the sacrifice they make. As a result they truly believe war should be a last resort and not begun in a cavalier manner the way this administration has. Going to war doesnt make you "a tough guy". It takes much more strength to find means outside of war to settle problems. This strength is necessary in order to truly honor our men and the sacrifice they are willing to give. You dont take that sacrifice lightly. Thats why we question this war and why debating the war brings the greatest honor to our men.

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE][B]It was "Cowards cut and run, Marines don't".

    And I couldn't agree more![/B][/QUOTE]


    Here is my take :

    Only a COWARD would send the Marines to war, ask them to sacrifice their lives knowing full well that this war is unnecessary.

    Only a COWARD sends Marines to war without the proper equiptment, insufficient number of troops (despite the urging of senior military officers that we are not sending enough), no post-war plan, and no exit strategy.

    Only a COWARD would respond to critics of the war by saying he is unpatriotic and enabling the enemy instead of adressing the real issues at hand.


    [B]Only a COWARD would send a [U]WOMAN[/U] to tell a retired decorated Marine Colonel that he is a coward.[/B]

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE][B]Right now terrorists have two huge allies in this country. The media, and the Democrats.[/B][/QUOTE]


    Wrong again. The terrrrisss have only one big alliy : The Bush Corporation.

    No one has done more for them than BushCo. They have helped the terrrisss with recruitment giving them loads of new propaganda to hate America, they have made Iraq friendly to AQ when it was previously hostile, it has provided the terrrrisss with a training ground for urban warfare, it has spread the seeds for a Islamic Theocracy to replace a previously secular regime, and it has brought Iran closer to Iraq than it ever was before.

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=bitonti]i think it's a sign of intelligence when a man can make one statement, realize the ramefications of that statement a few years later and change midstream.
    [/QUOTE]


    So Jean Kerri is the smartest man ever in the history of the universe?

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=Thor99]So Jean Kerri is the smartest man ever in the history of the universe?[/QUOTE]

    :clapper: :clapper: :clapper: classic.... :clapper: :clapper: :clapper: positively classic!!!

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7]Wrong again. The terrrrisss have only one big alliy : The Bush Corporation.

    No one has done more for them than BushCo. They have helped the terrrisss with recruitment giving them loads of new propaganda to hate America, they have made Iraq friendly to AQ when it was previously hostile, it has provided the terrrrisss with a training ground for urban warfare, it has spread the seeds for a Islamic Theocracy to replace a previously secular regime, and it has brought Iran closer to Iraq than it ever was before.[/QUOTE]

    You are right. While the Clinton administration was trying not to offend anyone, AQ wasn't able to recruit anyone who would climb into a plane and fly it into a building, killing themselves.

    Oh wait a minute...

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7]Here is my take :

    Only a COWARD would send the Marines to war, ask them to sacrifice their lives knowing full well that this war is unnecessary.

    Only a COWARD sends Marines to war without the proper equiptment, insufficient number of troops (despite the urging of senior military officers that we are not sending enough), no post-war plan, and no exit strategy.

    Only a COWARD would respond to critics of the war by saying he is unpatriotic and enabling the enemy instead of adressing the real issues at hand.


    [B]Only a COWARD would send a [U]WOMAN[/U] to tell a retired decorated Marine Colonel that he is a coward.[/B][/QUOTE]


    Your hatred for W (and probably anyone that doesn't agree with you) has severely disabled your reasoning and fairness. You have become a mouth-foamer. :(

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE][B]You are right. While the Clinton administration was trying not to offend anyone, AQ wasn't able to recruit anyone who would climb into a plane and fly it into a building, killing themselves.

    Oh wait a minute...[/B][/QUOTE]


    Ha! Ha! Ha! Piper you are so funny! Did you come up with that by yourself or did you hire a professional comedian?

    Of course once again you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that AQ wasnt able to recruit prior to our invasion of Iraq. All I am saying is that your "Rah! Rah! Lets git dem Turrrrrrr rrrrrrisssss!" approach has had unfortunate consequences. One being that the unwise invasion of Iraq has provided AQ and other turrrrrrrrissss organizations more ammo in the form of Anti-America propaganda to recruit more turrrrrisss. It has also made Iraq a training ground for urban warfare for them. This is widely accepted as fact. Stop with the knee jerk reaction to what those opposing the war are saying. Your statement just shows your hatred for the Left is clouding your thought process.

  11. #51
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    [QUOTE][B]Your hatred for W (and probably anyone that doesn't agree with you) has severely disabled your reasoning and fairness. You have become a mouth-foamer.[/B][/QUOTE]

    Quantum your responses have become very predictable and boring. If all you can say is that my reasoning is obscured by my hatred for Bush then I know you have lost the argument. How is calling a decorated veteran marine colonel a coward for opposing the War in Iraq and wanting to bring home our troops reasonable and fair? I think it is you who has been disabled by you unblinded support for W!

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7]Quantum your responses have become very predictable and boring. If all you can say is that my reasoning is obscured by my hatred for Bush then I know you have lost the argument. How is calling a decorated veteran marine colonel a coward for opposing the War in Iraq and wanting to bring home our troops reasonable and fair? I think it is you who has been disabled by you unblinded support for W![/QUOTE]


    Some congresswoman no one's ever heard of said that, and has since apologized. Bush and Cheney didn't say it, and likely pressed her to apologize profusely, which she has done. They have gone to great lengths to say that Murtha is NOT a coward and is NOT unpatriotic.

    Then, your little screed devolves (as it always does, sadly) into a litany of anti-Bush talking points.

    Meanwhile, Democrats [I]who voted for the war[/I] and who also said the same things about Iraq and WMD before Bush was even president are now saying Bush Lied. That's cowardly. That's reprehensible. That's a lie. Saying that people who are calling Bush a Liar are being ridiculous, ignorant and enabling the enemy is not a bad thing, it happens to be true, IMO. The administration is right to defend itself against these viscious, baseless and truly disgusting attacks. I don't know how anyone can have even a shred of respect for people like Kennedy or Harry Reid.

    Yet, you are mum on that issue.

    You are a chriping bird - your biases have stripped you of all integrity. It's painfully obvious to anyone who posts here with any regularity.
    Last edited by jets5ever; 11-22-2005 at 04:45 PM.

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE][B]Meanwhile, Democrats who voted for the war and who also said the same things about Iraq and WMD before Bush was even president are now saying Bush Lied. That's cowardly. That's reprehensible. That's a lie. Saying that people who are calling Bush a Liar are being ridiculous, ignorant and enabling the enemy is not a bad thing, it happens to be true, IMO. The administration is right to defend itself against these viscious, baseless and truly disgusting attacks. I don't know how anyone can have even a shred of respect for people like Kennedy or Harry Reid.[/B][/QUOTE]

    Ah J5E once again repeating the same old RNC TPs. First let me make clear those democrats who initially voted for the war and blindly followed the presidents BS b/c they were afraid of losing votes are nothing but a bunch of spineless pu$$ies and in my opinion are a disgrace!

    As far as questioning the administrations reasons for going to war and questioning the propoganda and how it was sold to the public, there is nothing wrong with that. Its probably 4 years late but this is a matter that must be thoroughly investigated. Again this is not enabling the enemy or hurting the troops. You are making this up and have no proof or even a a shred of evidence that supports this. By repeating this often parroted lie you are disgracing the freedoms that our forefathers have died for. Shame on you!

    And yes there is plenty of evidence to support an investigation of the BushCo. decision to lead our troops into a pre-emptive, war of choice against a nation that was never capable of attacking nor planning an attack on us.

  14. #54
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    [QUOTE][B]Some congresswoman no one's ever heard of said that, and has since apologized. Bush and Cheney didn't say it, and likely pressed her to apologize profusely, which she has done.[/B][/QUOTE]

    It was funny to see her dressed in red white and blue calling Murtha a coward. Its like when all the chickenhawks put on their shiny American flag lapels and stupid bumper stickers and scream out they support the troops.

    I doubt Bush/Cheney pressed her to apologize. Did you see the Sunday News Shows? Rummie was trying to spin this as if she never really said it, then claimed she wasnt talking about Murtha, and finally with his tail between his legs pretended not to have even heard this. This was no accident that she called Murtha a coward. Bush/Cheney Knew she was going to say it. This act has Karl Rove written all over. Its his MO. Pick a small time politician to throw dirt on your enemy and then have the pres/vice pres speak out against it. Very Rovian indeed!

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7]Ah J5E once again repeating the same old RNC TPs. First let me make clear those democrats who initially voted for the war and blindly followed the presidents BS b/c they were afraid of losing votes are nothing but a bunch of spineless pu$$ies and in my opinion are a disgrace!

    As far as questioning the administrations reasons for going to war and questioning the propoganda and how it was sold to the public, there is nothing wrong with that. Its probably 4 years late but this is a matter that must be thoroughly investigated. Again this is not enabling the enemy or hurting the troops. You are making this up and have no proof or even a a shred of evidence that supports this. By repeating this often parroted lie you are disgracing the freedoms that our forefathers have died for. Shame on you!

    And yes there is plenty of evidence to support an investigation of the BushCo. decision to lead our troops into a pre-emptive, war of choice against a nation that was never capable of attacking nor planning an attack on us.[/QUOTE]

    It has been investigated. Please, take off your tinfoil hat, buddy.

    BTW, do you know what IMO stands for? Do you know what an opinion is?

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE][B]It has been investigated.[/B][/QUOTE]


    Ok sport, please tell me which investigations you are referring to. It appears only you are aware of these investigations , so please enlighten us ignorant lefties.

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE][B]BTW, do you know what IMO stands for? Do you know what an opinion is?[/B][/QUOTE]

    Lets see,
    I= in
    M= my
    O= opinion??

    Is that right , champ?

    Why are you so defensive? Everyone here is just stating opinions. Thats what a discussion board is for. Relax.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7]Quantum your responses have become very predictable and boring. If all you can say is that my reasoning is obscured by my hatred for Bush then I know you have lost the argument. How is calling a decorated veteran marine colonel a coward for opposing the War in Iraq and wanting to bring home our troops reasonable and fair? I think it is you who has been disabled by you unblinded support for W![/QUOTE]

    What argument have you won? None I can see. You present half-truths, spin doctored information, presented with the "bush is a war criminal" undertone (unless you come right out and say it). Its a complete waste of time to present any facts to back up the Republican side because you dismiss all of them, even when there is liberal/leftist/Dem agreement.

    I salute your rabidity, though; I could not come anywhere near hating Clinton as much as you hate Bush. :rolleyes:

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