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Thread: New York Jets need complete overhaul

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it]You're kidding, right? This team turned the ball over on 4 straight possessions, including two deep in their own territory. 3 of those turnovers were at the "hands" of vinny testaverde, our 42 year old unretired 4th QB.

    The point? We have a very good defense that our high school offense puts in impossible situations. These are guys who are playing 35-40min per game, and even when they make a big stop and get off the field, odds are they'll be back on the field in 4 or fewer plays.

    This is not a team that needs to be blown up. [B]One thing to take away from that FA list is the fact that we are not in danger of losing anyone very significant. Abraham is the only name on that list that matters much. Law will be cut, most likely. [/B]
    On offense, we need a tackle, a guard, a RB a QB and one of the last two needs to be a playmaker. That's why drafting Bush with a high pick makes sense. At the moment, we have no one on our offense teams need to gameplan to stop, no one who can take over a game by themselves. Aside from our lack of an NFL QB, that's our real weakness. We need a gamebreaker - whether at WR or RB. So, take bush if he's there, draft a G and RT later in what is shaping up as an incredibly deep draft at OL (other than if you need a dominant LT, in which case D'Brickshaw is the only mortal lock) and go to war for a year with Fiedler/Kitna (not great options but guys who've proven they can play in the NFL).

    On D, we either need Pouha to show he can play or to draft a DT. A stud replacement for Hobson/Brown would be nice, but lets be honest - it's a luxury. You can't have "impact" players at every position, and those two are more than just adequate to do their jobs.

    And if you think that getting Bush, a RT, OG and quality DT is asking a lot out of our draft, remember this: we'll likely be getting 2 compensatory 3rd rd picks for losing McKenzie and Jordan this off season, and a later pick for Ferguson.

    Think about this lineup

    Offense

    QB: Fiedler/Kitna
    RB: Bush
    FB: Sowell
    LT: Jones
    LG: Kendall/rookie
    C: Mawae
    RG: Moore
    RT: Rookie
    WR1: Coles
    WR2/3: McCairens/Cotchery
    TE: Jolley/Dreessen

    Yes, I'd love to replace McCairens (Kelley Washington would be a good fit) and one of the TEs, but that is an NFL offense, one that could put up some points and with a game changer who will keep opposing Defensive Coordinators up at night (been a while since we had one of those) and make it easier for the guys around him.

    Defense

    RDE: Abraham
    3DT: Robertson
    NT: ??
    LDE: Ellis
    WLB: Barton/Brown
    MLB: Vilma
    SSLB: Hobson
    LCB: Miller (shown a lot these last few weeks)
    SS: Coleman
    FS: Rhodes
    RCB: Barrett
    NCB: Strait

    A good young D that should continue to improve (only major subtraction would be Law, and Miller's development makes that less than deadly)

    Is that a mortal lock super bowl team? No. Is it a competitive team that has a shot at being great, if things break right? Yes (like most of the other teams in the NFL), particularly playing a last place schedule and the AFC South (home to the Titans, Texans, and the beatable Jags) and putrid NFC North (lions, vikes, packers). Is it a team that can then look to add pieces like a stud QB or CB or whatever new hole pops up in the next offseason? Yes.

    Now, explain to me why "blowing up the team" would be a good idea? Which of the members of our young D do you suggest we cut loose, and who, from that FA list or your dream draft, do we replace them with? Who else on O do we cut loose, and who do we replace them with? And if you actually feel like answering those questions, try to remember things like the salary cap and other teams competing for free agents and drafting players, ok?[/QUOTE]

    The scary thing about your post is you think the bolded statement is a positive and I think it's a negative. Abe is one of 4 or 5 players that are worth holding onto.

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs]The scary thing about your post is you think the bolded statement is a positive and I think it's a negative. Abe is one of 4 or 5 players that are worth holding onto.[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, but that's just silly. We'd be in bad shape if our FA list included any 3 or 4 names from this list:

    Barrett
    Miller
    Coleman
    Vilma
    Barton
    Hobson
    Mawae
    Ellis
    Abraham
    Robertson
    Jones
    Moore
    Coles

    Instead, we're set to keep everyone but our backup OL, backup LB, an average TE, an average DT and 3 street FAs we signed this year after being devastated by injury.

    Say what you want about Bradway, but that's good planning - he had this team set up to retain a core of players who will have at least a year together and in the system, including a young, up and coming D. It's one of the reasons we were comfortable using the tag on Abraham this year - we had too many FAs coming up to sign them all, but the 2006 offseason was going to be lighter, and we could make Abraham a priority.

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it]Sorry, but that's just silly. We'd be in bad shape if our FA list included any 3 or 4 names from this list:

    Barrett
    Miller
    Coleman
    Vilma
    Barton
    Hobson
    Mawae
    Ellis
    Abraham
    Robertson
    Jones
    Moore
    Coles

    Instead, we're set to keep everyone but our backup OL, backup LB, an average TE, an average DT and 3 street FAs we signed this year after being devastated by injury.

    Say what you want about Bradway, but that's good planning - he had this team set up to retain a core of players who will have at least a year together and in the system, including a young, up and coming D. It's one of the reasons we were comfortable using the tag on Abraham this year - we had too many FAs coming up to sign them all, but the 2006 offseason was going to be lighter, and we could make Abraham a priority.[/QUOTE]

    There are 5 players on that list who are good enough to start on a good team. That's the real problem with Bradway, he is loading us up with decent players that are good enough to win against an easy schedule and bad enough to lose when faced with a tough one.

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=Matt39]Just ignore Ray. His act has gotten old. He calls you an idiot then goes into hiding when someone actually counters his senseless rambling. Personally, I think he's on a load of hippie drugs if he can't see the truth about how bad this team truly is.[/QUOTE]

    RamRodDumbAssRay is the biggest idiot on this message board.

    Even Jet fans can now see what a moron this guy is.

    He knows absolutely nothing about the game of football.

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=Ray Ray19]

    If you FOOLS think our defense is the problem, you are out of your damn minds...

    [/QUOTE]

    You are a complete morom.

    The Jets run defense is ranked 30th in the NFL.

    If the Jets defense was as good as you "think" they are, don't you think they would turn a few more 3 and outs and get off the field?

    The Jets have a mediocre defense at best.

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=rudajnwhat]how is the defense spose to be good when there on the field 75percent of the game........everyone knows to have a great defense ur offense has to do something........this team is horrible this yr with the run and at qb....reggie bush will be a huge pick up for this team[/QUOTE]

    You want to see a good D look at the Bears. They stop people. Good D's don't open games with teams running the ball down your throat for 8 minutes they stop you cold and they smack you in the mouth and come off the field after 3 or 6 plays.

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs]You want to see a good D look at the Bears. They stop people. Good D's don't open games with teams running the ball down your throat for 8 minutes they stop you cold and they smack you in the mouth and come off the field after 3 or 6 plays.[/QUOTE]

    Exactly. :yes:

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=Mathis81]Herm has the team playing hard with what they have, and what they have left, isn't much at all on offense!!!!!!

    Give it a damn rest.

    Ray Ray just stop. This D was talking all sorts of trash in the preseason B4 the addition of Ty Law. They laughed at the Giants for whining about the hard hitting in practice. They said they were superbowl material. HA.

    Where was that same D in KC week 1? Herm had them playing hard huh? I dont care where the game was played, they sucked that game. A GOOD D always shows up and makes plays. They looked stupid that game.

    Now you say our D makes adjustments at the half. Do they really? Or does the other team just come out and play conservative cause they have a 20+ point lead all the time. Our D is no good. They cant do anything, they may look good in the 2nd half, but the opposing offense is just milking the clock. Watch the games more closely, and you too will notice this....[/QUOTE]

    playing hard? you believe the crap jackie childs is spewing? the team i am watching is the worst team in recent memory. it is so pathetic, that i do not recall in recent memory a teram that is so pathetic ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. this coach has LOST THE TEAM!!!it is clear to everyone that this team has LAID DOWN!!!

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX]Exactly. :yes:[/QUOTE]

    :D (i.e. you know better)

    There is 1 - [b]1 [/b]- major problem with this defense not directly related to being on the field 2/3 of the game because our offense is terrible, and that is our inability to stop the run. That is a problem that requires 1 -[b] 1[/b] - change on defense. Subtract Reed, add a legit run-stuffing NT. With that one change, our D has the players to be an elite unit - speedy LBs who will have the freedom to flow to the ball, a solid to dominant DL and a fast, aggressive secondary that doesn't need to keep a safety in the box.

    [QUOTE] There are 5 players on that list who are good enough to start on a good team. That's the real problem with Bradway, he is loading us up with decent players that are good enough to win against an easy schedule and bad enough to lose when faced with a tough one. [/QUOTE]

    That's absurd. Vilma, Barrett, Robertson, Coleman, Ellis and Abraham could start on most teams in the league. Same for Coles and Mawae on offense. Hobson and Barton are above average to very good players at their positions. Same for Brandon Moore. Jones is an up and coming LT who looks like he could develop into a good one.

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it]:D (i.e. you know better)

    There is 1 - [b]1 [/b]- major problem with this defense not directly related to being on the field 2/3 of the game because our offense is terrible, and that is our inability to stop the run. That is a problem that requires 1 -[b] 1[/b] - change on defense. Subtract Reed, add a legit run-stuffing NT. With that one change, our D has the players to be an elite unit - speedy LBs who will have the freedom to flow to the ball, a solid to dominant DL and a fast, aggressive secondary that doesn't need to keep a safety in the box.



    That's absurd. Vilma, Barrett, Robertson, Coleman, Ellis and Abraham could start on most teams in the league. Same for Coles and Mawae on offense. Hobson and Barton are above average to very good players at their positions. Same for Brandon Moore. Jones is an up and coming LT who looks like he could develop into a good one.[/QUOTE]

    Vilma and Abe are the only two studs on our D. Ellis and Robertson while clearly not playing well enough to start on a really good d this year probably are good enough to start on a very good D if they were motivated which clearly they aren't. Hobson is a backup LB. Mawae stunk before he was hurt this year. The guy has been a stud but he is getting long in the tooth and may not have it any more? Moore is not a good Guard he is okay and certainly not great. Jones is a question mark? Barton is a stud but has an arthritic knee condition so who knows? Barrett give me a break he is not a starter on an elite D and Coleman looks like he has taken a step back this year. Coles is a very good WR but he is not a dominating WR. That's the problem we have over rated our own players we have some good players and a couple of near greats but we have a lot of okay players who we have rated as great and their not.

  11. #51
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    Everyone keeps bringing up how long the defense is on the field. But why do we keep getting blown out in the first quarter?

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=CarlSpackler]Everyone keeps bringing up how long the defense is on the field. But why do we keep getting blown out in the first quarter?[/QUOTE]

    Because they can't stop the run and every team we play knows that going into the game......

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=Mainejet]Because they can't stop the run and every team we play knows that going into the game......[/QUOTE]

    EXACTLY.


    How is the defense not the problem when its completely inept against the run.

  14. #54
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    [QUOTE=CarlSpackler]


    How is the defense not the problem when its completely inept against the run.

    [/QUOTE]

    Just ask RamRodDumbAssRay.

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=CarlSpackler]EXACTLY.


    How is the defense not the problem when its completely inept against the run.[/QUOTE]

    Because the ineptitude against the run can legitimately be laid at the feet of one player - James Reed. Not that it's his fault, but there's no way he should be a starting NT in the NFL. Get a legit NT, and the D turns around very quickly.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs]You want to see a good D look at the Bears. They stop people. Good D's don't open games with teams running the ball down your throat for 8 minutes they stop you cold and they smack you in the mouth and come off the field after 3 or 6 plays.[/QUOTE]

    I would agree with that assertion. They are not getting it done when it comes to stopping the run.

    On paper the defense seems to be good. Last season was somewhat of a measuring stick and they were good. I 'am suprised that the 4 down lineman are not getting the pressure on the QB as I expected. I expected them to be as good or better as last year. Not getting pressure on the QB and not being able to stop the run (which they did last year) is evident this season.

    I do think an element to this is that they have given up on the season at this point in the game and are playing less inspired football. Go Jets.

  17. #57
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    Yes, I agree that they need an overhaul which what will make it hard when decisions are to be made by the FO (QB or RB in Draft), e.t.c., e.t.c.

    One example would be, if they wait until they know about Chad's condition, the FA period would be over, so what do they do then for QB?

    Another example, whether Curtis wants to subject himelf to a second stringer if the JETS do get Bush.

    There's a lot of scenarios that need to be reviewed and it's not going to be easy and so when the time comes for the FO are ready to make decisions, lets not be hard on them.

  18. #58
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    [B][I]The Jets run defense is ranked 30th in the NFL[/I][/B]

    that stat is misleading. teams dont have to pass against us when controlling large leads...

    therefore, large amounts of yardage are piled up during games.

    But looking at reality, the jets Yard Per Carry is somewhere in the middle. I know before the denver game it was inside of 15th best in the nfl, with numerous teams tied.

    The best in the league and the jets run defense were separated by .8 of a yard....

    The amount of yardage given up is not a real litmus on the actual performance.

  19. #59
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    hence the need to get reggie bush. guys like that come

    [QUOTE=CarlSpackler]No doubt injuries are a big problem this year, but our offense is old anyway, our run was supposed to be this year.

    You can't say we don't need to rebuild just because we had injuries.



    As for Tinstar, yes we need o-line but we also need a playmaker on offense. We have no player that scares opposing defenses. With our highest pick we should take a playmaker then turn towards the offensive line rounds 2-7 and sign some help in free agency.[/QUOTE]

    along ever so often and can light it up. i don't recall the jets ever having a player who can score anytime he touched the ball. maybe santana was the closest in recent years but he didn't have anyone who could throw the ball. anyone can hand off and that's why a guy like bush should be considered. they can make the plays even when the oline is breaking down. all credit to martin, but has never had the ability to score from anywhere on the field and needs a good oline. bush can make a bad oline look good. also, restoring the run game will help keep the defense off the field. this has been herm's dream from the start.

    so all is not lost, there is always next year and there is a great opportunity for this team to improve there lot for years to come.

  20. #60
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    i certainly agree with most of your post.

    [QUOTE=greenandwhite]I would agree with that assertion. They are not getting it done when it comes to stopping the run.

    On paper the defense seems to be good. Last season was somewhat of a measuring stick and they were good. I 'am suprised that the 4 down lineman are not getting the pressure on the QB as I expected. I expected them to be as good or better as last year. Not getting pressure on the QB and not being able to stop the run (which they did last year) is evident this season.

    I do think an element to this is that they have given up on the season at this point in the game and are playing less inspired football. Go Jets.[/QUOTE]

    i think the defense came out believing their press clippings and then found out about reality. the dline play has been horrible and while the last few games are somewhat excusable because the season is done, it doesn't let them off the hook for the games before the bye week. i wonder if the jets could shop robertson and ellis. maybe for a qb and then use draft picks to get more beef. but thier real problem on the dline is probably more of coaching than actual talent. get a coach wno knows dline play. other teams seem to be able to stunt and shed blockers and get to the runners. the jets line seems only able to lock on to the opposing linemen and watch the back run by. they can not expect to do much if they can't get past the blockers.

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