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Thread: Herms' two biggest mistakes this year...

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    Herms' two biggest mistakes this year...

    IMHO if Herm does not make these two mistakes we don't have half the board posting for his scalp the last couple of weeks.

    1. Starting Chad at the beginning of the season. We've been told that Chad's injury this year is not related to the one he was healing from, however that is the point, he was not fully healed. Fiedler could have had the Jets no worse than .500 after six games, and in comes a healthy chad to take us down the stretch.

    2. Replacing Chad and Fiedler with Vinnie after that fateful seven play sequence that slaughtered our season. Vinnie is just finished, he cannot physically do what he has been able to do in the past, however his mind refuses to accept it, and he continues to turn the ball over.

    I know we have lost nearly a dozen players for the year, however with a better option at QB this team would still be competitive. These are his glaring errors, and they are not his alone, the personnel man must be held somewhat reponsible as well. In retrospect a freakish seven play series is what is causing the non stop assault on Herm. It's kind of silly when you look at it this way if you think about it, isn't it?

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    They do not pay Herm to think.

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    i don't get this logic. When he was in the game, Fiedler lasted 3 pass plays before he blew out his shoulder, yet if they would have started him from the beginning of the season, the Jets would be awesome right now. I don't buy it. The guy had a chance and he got smoked.

    as for Vinny he's won 1 game this year which more than Bollinger can say. 3rd Qb's aren't supposed to be awesome season savers. They are players for the most part you hope never see the field.

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    I think it has more to do with unrealistic expectations (too many to list here) on the part of fans. Sometimes, life sucks: be an adult, accept it, and get over it.

    /me runs for my flame-retardant skivvies :eek:

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    [QUOTE=bitonti]i don't get this logic. When he was in the game, Fiedler lasted 3 pass plays before he blew out his shoulder, yet if they would have started him from the beginning of the season, the Jets would be awesome right now. I don't buy it. The guy had a chance and he got smoked.

    as for Vinny he's won 1 game this year which more than Bollinger can say. 3rd Qb's aren't supposed to be awesome season savers. They are players for the most part you hope never see the field.[/QUOTE]

    Question Bit, where do you rank Herm among NFL coaches...

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    [QUOTE=TampaT]Question Bit, where do you rank Herm among NFL coaches...[/QUOTE]

    Im not bit, but About 50th.

    I rank several coaches without teams in front of Herm. :zzz:

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    [QUOTE=bitonti]i don't get this logic. When he was in the game, Fiedler lasted 3 pass plays before he blew out his shoulder, yet if they would have started him from the beginning of the season, the Jets would be awesome right now. I don't buy it. The guy had a chance and he got smoked.

    as for Vinny he's won 1 game this year which more than Bollinger can say. 3rd Qb's aren't supposed to be awesome season savers. They are players for the most part you hope never see the field.[/QUOTE]
    Fiedler got hurt going down to the turf after getting sacked. the play reminded me very much of the play vs. the Giants that Chad hurt his wrist on, in that his arm got jammed up by the turf. It was a "fateful" turn of events that may not have occured if thing had transpired differently.


    BTW, here is a column by Ian O'Conner from yesterday, an inspired defense of Herm. I'll post it here instead of starting another thread.

    [url]http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051120/COLUMNIST03/511200324/1005[/url]

    Head Jet merits job security
    By IAN O'CONNOR
    THE JOURNAL NEWS


    Herman Edwards is as real as a steroid-pumped ballplayer is fake. In a sports marketplace overstuffed with counterfeit goods, with phony actions and phonier words, Edwards is a living testament to the merits of substance over style.

    Yes, he can preach and rant and use the news media as team messenger with the best of 'em. But in the context of professional football coaches, paranoid by definition, programmed to lie on Wednesday for the sake of an extra first down on Sunday, Edwards is a truth teller. He prefers to tell it like it is.

    And so he did in the middle of last week, in the middle of a season that's left him feeling betrayed by the fickle forces of fate. This was supposed to be the breakthrough year for the Jets. Edwards would have a good chance of becoming the second coach ever to take this franchise to the Super Bowl. He would have a good chance of becoming the first black coach ever to make it to the big game.

    Chad Pennington's fragile body junked all that. It wasn't easy being green when suddenly, out of the blue, Dick Vermeil's uncertain future and Edwards' Kansas City connections conspired to throw the beleaguered Jets coach a life jacket.

    Edwards wouldn't have been human if he didn't try it on for size.

    "If I'm not holding up my end of the bargain or (the Jets) feel they need to go in another direction," he said into a live mike, "they have to do that. They have to do whatever is best for the team. I'm OK with that, I really am."

    This was only part of what sounded like goodbye, only part of what was more likely a cry for help from a man who burned to feel wanted. The Chiefs might have an interest in Edwards replacing Vermeil? Hey, what 2-7 coach wouldn't grab on to that?

    If only to honor his defensive back roots, Edwards quickly backpedaled away from his own stir, later claiming he intends on being with the Jets for a long time. It's possible someone in the company got to him, someone who temporarily convinced Edwards that his candor wasn't good for business.

    But this is where Woody Johnson comes in. This is where the owner has to realize Edwards has been very good for business, and offer him another two-year extension on top of the two years the coach has coming to him.

    A columnist's job description rarely includes campaigning for a 2-7 coach. But these are the Jets we're dealing with, not your garden-variety NFL franchise. Edwards is the only coach to take the Jets to three postseason tournaments, never mind the only one to do that in his first four years on the job. Edwards is the only Jets coach to win a road playoff game since Walt Michaels won two 23 years back.

    His combined regular-season and playoff record might stand at only 39-39, but Edwards has given stability to an unstable organization. Never mind all the Joe Waltons and Bruce Coslets and Pete Carrolls and Rich Kotites. Remember that Bill Parcells walked out on this team, and that Bill Belichick ran like mad from this team, and that even the lightweight likes of Al Groh dumped this team before it could dump him.

    The Jets have always been in dire need of a base, a foundation, someone to build around. Herman Edwards gave them that someone. They shouldn't weaken him while he's down. They should give him more security as a statement to the players and fans that the Jets' days as a now-you-see-him, now-you-don't operation are done.

    Edwards' two lousy seasons were the direct results of injuries suffered by Pennington. The Jets need to move away from Pennington now, and put the most important position in the hands of a sturdier hopeful.

    But as they cash out on Pennington, the Jets should invest more hope in Edwards. For one, the players believe in him. They respect the fact that he was one of them, an NFL player, and not some lifer coach who's spent his entire game-day career in a glass booth, picking through the doughnut box a safe distance from the fray.

    Edwards shouldn't enter the 2006 season with only one lame-duck year backing him up, not with a fresh quarterback on the way, not with Mike Heimerdinger's offense still in its transition phase, and not with the team faced with a salary-cap situation so scary it could inspire an all-out rebuilding march to who knows where.

    Pennington and Curtis Martin and a long procession of veterans won't be kept around for any such thing. The Jets will need an anchor in the eye of this storm. For most of his five seasons, Edwards has been that anchor.

    Vince Lombardi he is not. Edwards needs to improve his game-management skills, and he can't throw any more Paul Hacketts or Ted Cottrells overboard. Edwards will have to drive the Jets back into contention with Heimerdinger, with Donnie Henderson, and with the power of his own positive thinking.

    Woody Johnson, billionaire, can afford to bet another two years on the possibilities, especially after keeping Edwards on the low end of the NFL pay scale. It doesn't mean an extension would guarantee Johnson a Super Bowl Sunday in the near future.

    It only means Johnson would be buying a real-deal coach in a market stocked with counterfeit goods.

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    [QUOTE=jetswin]IMHO if Herm does not make these two mistakes we don't have half the board posting for his scalp the last couple of weeks.

    1. Starting Chad at the beginning of the season. We've been told that Chad's injury this year is not related to the one he was healing from, however that is the point, he was not fully healed. Fiedler could have had the Jets no worse than .500 after six games, and in comes a healthy chad to take us down the stretch.

    2. Replacing Chad and Fiedler with Vinnie after that fateful seven play sequence that slaughtered our season. Vinnie is just finished, he cannot physically do what he has been able to do in the past, however his mind refuses to accept it, and he continues to turn the ball over.

    I know we have lost nearly a dozen players for the year, however with a better option at QB this team would still be competitive. These are his glaring errors, and they are not his alone, the personnel man must be held somewhat reponsible as well. In retrospect a freakish seven play series is what is causing the non stop assault on Herm. It's kind of silly when you look at it this way if you think about it, isn't it?[/QUOTE]
    the bashing of herm goes beyond this season. It carries back over his time here. I gave him the first year as a rookie coach but by the 3rd year he was still making the same mistakes over and over. From clock manegement on and last year was it for me. You only get so many chances to go to championship games and he had his and lost it much like his mentor Marty Shottenhiemer. After that loss all I wanted was herm to get canned and to bring in Charlie Weiss. I said 10 minute after the Pitt game and i will it for the next 50 years. But You will never get anymore from Herm than what he has shown up until this point. It played out like that with Dungy in Tampa and Shottenhiemer in Clev and KC. Do you wait 10 years of the same nonsense of well we go to the playoffs every year or do you decide that playoff are only good as an owner for the extra revenue. You have to take advantage of the moment because you might not get another shot again. RE: 1999

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    What exactly with his insistance on having Justin Miller return kicks? #22 continues to hurt us and his "loaf of bread" form hasn't changed. Either coach the guy or take him out.

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    Herm is 39-40, why do people love the guy?

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    [QUOTE]
    1. Edwards is a truth teller. He prefers to tell it like it is.

    2. His combined regular-season and playoff record might stand at only 39-39, but Edwards has given stability to an unstable organization.[/QUOTE]

    These are my two favorite statements

    1. "A truth-teller"? Is this guy kidding me? Edwards talks in circles and babble incessantly/

    2. Yippee. Stable and mediocre.

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    After you hear Herm speak, you would go to war for the guy. He's probably the best coach in the NFL from Monday to Saturday, but he's a mess on Sunday. I for one still want to see Herm on our sidelines next year.
    Last edited by -Kevin; 11-21-2005 at 04:10 PM.

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    Welcome aboard -Kevin....I was getting lonely in this thread. :D

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    I'm sure you were. :P

    Another Westchester guy I see. :D

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    [QUOTE=-Kevin]After you hear Herm speak, you would go to war for the guy. He's probably the best coach in the NFL from Monday to Saturday, but he's a mess on Sunday. I for one still want to see Herm on our sidelines next year.[/QUOTE]

    I believe players realize Herm is a fraud. When adversity hits, great coaches roll up their sleeves up and take control of the offense and defense. Herm is incapable of doing that. The two letters Herm has most trouble with is X & O.

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    [QUOTE=TampaT]I believe players realize Herm is a fraud. When adversity hits, great coaches roll up their sleeves up and take control of the offense and defense. Herm is incapable of doing that. The two letters Herm has most trouble with is X & O.[/QUOTE]For all of the talk about how Herm is a player's coach, I know of not one player who came to the Jets just because Herm is the coach, the way players used to gravitate to Parcells. In the end, players want to play for a winner, and Herm has not demonstrated that he is a winner.

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    I think his biggest mistake has been playing banged up vets and not giving young backups a chance, and that includes, Pennington, Martin and McCairns. First of all the vets never heal right, and our young players don't get a chance to show what they have.

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    [QUOTE=Queens Jet Fan]I think his biggest mistake has been playing banged up vets and not giving young backups a chance, and that includes, Pennington, Martin and McCairns. First of all the vets never heal right, and our young players don't get a chance to show what they have.[/QUOTE]Herm has been making that mistake for years, not just this year. :yes:

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    [QUOTE=joemusgo]Herm has been making that mistake for years, not just this year. :yes:[/QUOTE]

    So maybe his biggest mistake is not learning from his previous mistakes.

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    [QUOTE=Queens Jet Fan]So maybe his biggest mistake is not learning from his previous mistakes.[/QUOTE]You have to have the last word, don't you. Just like my wife. Oh, well, you win. :D

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