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View Poll Results: Isiah guilty or innocent?

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  • Guilty

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  • No clue, lets hear more evidence

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Thread: OT: Isiah and the Knicks

  1. #1
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    OT: Isiah and the Knicks

    Wow.. has Jim Dolan run this franchise into the ground with the hiring of Isiah. The recent allegations against Isiah are killing this franchise. In my opinion he has made horrible trades and his only saving grace was the hiring of Larry Brown. Although the knicks aren't above .500, I believe Larry will eventually change things. But, the upper management with the Knicks needs to change. I believe, you shouldn't charge someone with guilt, until proven otherwise, but with the facts that are starting to come out, this doesn't look good. Do you think he's guilty of sexual harassment? Or is Anucha Browne Saunders just looking for a big payday?

  2. #2
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    There are a lot of questions here. Did she ask him to stop and he didn't? That's a biggee. We tell all of our employees, that if someone says or does anything that makes you feel uncomfortable, ask them to stop. If they persist, report them.

  3. #3
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    First off, Isiah Thomas has done 10X the job Scott Layden did here.

    His trades haven't been bad. He's stock piled this roster with a boat load of talent. Curry, Crawford, Marbury, Frye, Arize, Richardson, just to name few. The problem is getting these guys to mature - enter Larry Brown.

    This Knicks team is still 2 years away, at minimum. If they can get rid of Marbury for a good power forward, I think the roster will be ready to compete. Eddie Curry needs to come in next year IN SHAPE and ready to grab some rebounds.

  4. #4
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    The sad truth is, a majority of women in the workplace are victims of some forms of distastful flirting. Sometimes men really cross the line. Sometimes women encourage this by flirting back.

    We don't know all the facts in this case so its hard to pass judgment.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetsFutureGM
    First off, Isiah Thomas has done 10X the job Scott Layden did here.

    His trades haven't been bad. He's stock piled this roster with a boat load of talent. Curry, Crawford, Marbury, Frye, Arize, Richardson, just to name few. The problem is getting these guys to mature - enter Larry Brown.

    This Knicks team is still 2 years away, at minimum. If they can get rid of Marbury for a good power forward, I think the roster will be ready to compete. Eddie Curry needs to come in next year IN SHAPE and ready to grab some rebounds.
    Isiah has turned a horrible, over priced old roster into a talented, athletic and energetic young roster. I agree with your assessment 100%

    As far as the issue at hand is concerned, it is a typical he said, she said situation where the truth will probably be found somewhere in the middle. I can't see Isiah being the type to do such a thing, but I am not willing to classify the alleged victim as a disgruntled employee looking for a pay day either.

    Hopefully the truth will come out one way or another.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetfan1983
    The sad truth is, a majority of women in the workplace are victims of some forms of distastful flirting. Sometimes men really cross the line. Sometimes women encourage this by flirting back.

    We don't know all the facts in this case so its hard to pass judgment.
    I highly doubt it is a majority, and in my 15 years in the workforce for major corporations it certainly has not been the case from what I have seen.

    It is unfortunate that any individual is exposed to any sort of harrassment in the work place.

  7. #7
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    There have been allegations against Isiah in the past in Toronto. His press conference yesterday did seem convincing to me.. We'll see.

  8. #8
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    There's no way for anyone to know if they guy's guilty or innocent yet, no facts about the case have been revealed so it's impossible to pass any type of judgement on the guy.

    As sad as this sounds, my buddy Wilder (one of the only people I know that stays as blue and orange as I do during the dark times) and I were talking yesterday about how this might get Isiah out of the Garden already. It's sad that it had to happen this way, but if by some chance he had to leave due to these circumstances neither of us would have any complaints. And the worst part about that is the majority of Knick fans are thinking that way about this whole ordeal but noone wants to actually say it because it seems a little wrong to be thinking that way.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RutgersJetFan
    There's no way for anyone to know if they guy's guilty or innocent yet, no facts about the case have been revealed so it's impossible to pass any type of judgement on the guy.

    As sad as this sounds, my buddy Wilder (one of the only people I know that stays as blue and orange as I do during the dark times) and I were talking yesterday about how this might get Isiah out of the Garden already. It's sad that it had to happen this way, but if by some chance he had to leave due to these circumstances neither of us would have any complaints. And the worst part about that is the majority of Knick fans are thinking that way about this whole ordeal but noone wants to actually say it because it seems a little wrong to be thinking that way.

    As a diehard fan as yourself, have you been happy with Isiah's moves? I think he drafted well this year, but some of his trades and frequency of them has to be questioned!

  10. #10
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    Isaiah "Clarence" Thomas?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL My Favorite Toon
    There have been allegations against Isiah in the past in Toronto. His press conference yesterday did seem convincing to me.. We'll see.
    About 4-5 years ago, my buddy was with his girlfriend at Serendipity on 60th St. Someone walked by them and grabbed his girlfriend's a$$. They both turned around in shock and as the guy walked by he turned around and smiled, and it was Isiah.

    I don't know anything about the present incident, but the guy sure has a history of thinking he can do what he wants when he wants with women.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BergenJet
    I highly doubt it is a majority, and in my 15 years in the workforce for major corporations it certainly has not been the case from what I have seen.

    It is unfortunate that any individual is exposed to any sort of harrassment in the work place.
    i think your are underestimating the extent that women deal with inappropriate behavior from men (at least in certain industries). Whether its overt sexual overtures or having men mistake them for secretaries, its a lot more prevalent than you might think.

  13. #13
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    Guilty, and I hope he gets the electric chair.

  14. #14
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    isaih has been a little crybaby ever since he left indiana.

    i have no sympathy for the schmuck. he ruined the cbl and toronto and he is doing the same to the knicks. the best thing that happened of late is one of the dolans having enough guts to tell isaih he would not be the coach. i really don't want to hear about all of the good players he's brought in or how he compares to laydon. the point is they are a lottery team and will be so for the foreseeable future, larry brown or not.

    larry bird showed isaih the way when he launched him, and for good reason.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmogmo
    Guilty, and I hope he gets the electric chair.
    wow.. that's kinda harsh!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL My Favorite Toon
    As a diehard fan as yourself, have you been happy with Isiah's moves? I think he drafted well this year, but some of his trades and frequency of them has to be questioned!
    In terms of evaluating talent and drafting, Isiah is second to none. Personally I would prefer that they keep him on staff just for his scouting abilities alone, pay the guy a GM's salary if you need to, he's that good. Noone is better at judging talent and how it will translate over to the NBA better than Isiah is, his track record at Toronto and New York speaks for itself in terms of the draft. A perfect example is when he took David Lee over Salim Stoudamire in last year's draft, me and my buddy were shocked, but we didn't question it because it was Isiah. And it's turned out to be a great pick so far.

    In terms of his other abilities as general manager, Isiah is a complete disaster. He has no idea how to manage the cap and quite frankly the Knicks are screwed until at least 2008 when they'll have some contracts that expire. He traded away almost all our draft picks for the next few seasons and gave Jerome James what might be the most ridiculous contract in Knicks history. I could go on and on about this, but the bottom line is whenever and where ever he's been in a position where he's controlled the buisness aspect of anything in basketball he has done nothing but screw the situation up every time (Indiana, the CBA, and now us).

    In terms of a few of the trades he made, I think the cards fell the right way but at the time they were awful, awful moves. (I.E. the Malik Rose deal netting us David Lee in the long run, and the Q-Rich trade netting us Nate in the long run, also keep in mind, that even though those trades landed us key players for the future they also picked up two bloated contracts in the process). The jury's still out on the Eddy Curry deal, but if we wind up losing out on lottery picks for the next two years, where both drafts are shaping up to be extremely deep, it could wind up being a disaster for the franchise.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RutgersJetFan
    In terms of evaluating talent and drafting, Isiah is second to none. Personally I would prefer that they keep him on staff just for his scouting abilities alone, pay the guy a GM's salary if you need to, he's that good. Noone is better at judging talent and how it will translate over to the NBA better than Isiah is, his track record at Toronto and New York speaks for itself in terms of the draft. A perfect example is when he took David Lee over Salim Stoudamire in last year's draft, me and my buddy were shocked, but we didn't question it because it was Isiah. And it's turned out to be a great pick so far.

    In terms of his other abilities as general manager, Isiah is a complete disaster. He has no idea how to manage the cap and quite frankly the Knicks are screwed until at least 2008 when they'll have some contracts that expire. He traded away almost all our draft picks for the next few seasons and gave Jerome James what might be the most ridiculous contract in Knicks history. I could go on and on about this, but the bottom line is whenever and where ever he's been in a position where he's controlled the buisness aspect of anything in basketball he has done nothing but screw the situation up every time (Indiana, the CBA, and now us).

    In terms of a few of the trades he made, I think the cards fell the right way but at the time they were awful, awful moves. (I.E. the Malik Rose deal netting us David Lee in the long run, and the Q-Rich trade netting us Nate in the long run, also keep in mind, that even though those trades landed us key players for the future they also picked up two bloated contracts in the process). The jury's still out on the Eddy Curry deal, but if we wind up losing out on lottery picks for the next two years, where both drafts are shaping up to be extremely deep, it could wind up being a disaster for the franchise.
    How can he be this world class talent evaluator when he makes some of the horrific moves he has? He's gotten lucky in the draft for the most part, it's that simple....he's a complete and utter failure.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmogmo
    How can he be this world class talent evaluator when he makes some of the horrific moves he has? He's gotten lucky in the draft for the most part, it's that simple....he's a complete and utter failure.
    Simple, look at every first round choice he's ever made for any franchise.

    Toronto - Damon Stoudamire, Marcus Camby, Tracy McGrady
    New York - Sweetney, and Frye, Robinson, and Lee (all in one draft). Also remember he called Trevor Ariza in the 2nd round.

    Sooner or later you have to give the guy credit for being an astute judge of talent when it comes to high schoolers and college players. The trades and signings he's made have absolutely been horrific, and if you reread my post you'll see that I've already said he's a complete disaster as a GM. But Isiah is a great drafter and his history shows that, if there's legitimate facts you can point to that show to him only getting "lucky" in every draft, then I'd love to hear them. Because some of the choices he did make, like choosing Stoudamire over Ed O'Bannon, McGrady over Danny Fortson, Lee over S. Stoudamire and Ewing....those were all Isiah.
    Last edited by RutgersJetFan; 01-26-2006 at 01:16 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RutgersJetFan
    Simple, look at every first round choice he's ever made for any franchise.

    Toronto - Damon Stoudamire, Marcus Camby, Tracy McGrady
    New York - Sweetney, and Frye, Robinson, and Lee (all in one draft). Also remember he called Trevor Ariza in the 2nd round.

    Sooner or later you have to give the guy credit for being an astute judge of talent. The trades and signings he's made have absolutely been horrific, and if you reread my post you'll see that I've already said he's a complete disaster as a GM. But Isiah is a great drafter and his history shows that, if there's legitimate facts you can point to that show to him only getting "lucky" in every draft, then I'd love to hear them. Because some of the choices he did make, like choosing Stoudamire over Ed O'Bannon, McGrady over Danny Fortson, Lee over S. Stoudamire and Ewing....those were all Isiah.
    I'll agree he's made some great picks... His trades and frequency of them have been bad... Let this current roster play and gel under Larry Brown. I think because of these allegations, Isiah will be gone in a month.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RutgersJetFan
    In terms of evaluating talent and drafting, Isiah is second to none. Personally I would prefer that they keep him on staff just for his scouting abilities alone, pay the guy a GM's salary if you need to, he's that good. Noone is better at judging talent and how it will translate over to the NBA better than Isiah is, his track record at Toronto and New York speaks for itself in terms of the draft. A perfect example is when he took David Lee over Salim Stoudamire in last year's draft, me and my buddy were shocked, but we didn't question it because it was Isiah. And it's turned out to be a great pick so far.

    In terms of his other abilities as general manager, Isiah is a complete disaster. He has no idea how to manage the cap and quite frankly the Knicks are screwed until at least 2008 when they'll have some contracts that expire. He traded away almost all our draft picks for the next few seasons and gave Jerome James what might be the most ridiculous contract in Knicks history. I could go on and on about this, but the bottom line is whenever and where ever he's been in a position where he's controlled the buisness aspect of anything in basketball he has done nothing but screw the situation up every time (Indiana, the CBA, and now us).

    In terms of a few of the trades he made, I think the cards fell the right way but at the time they were awful, awful moves. (I.E. the Malik Rose deal netting us David Lee in the long run, and the Q-Rich trade netting us Nate in the long run, also keep in mind, that even though those trades landed us key players for the future they also picked up two bloated contracts in the process). The jury's still out on the Eddy Curry deal, but if we wind up losing out on lottery picks for the next two years, where both drafts are shaping up to be extremely deep, it could wind up being a disaster for the franchise.
    Sorry but evaluating talent and moves as a GM are not totally separate. Don't you think he had to evaluate Jerome James to determine his worth for a contract?
    I think Thomas is an egomaniac disaster. He'll make moves jut to make them and see himself in the press. Channing Frye was a good pick and really a no-brainer IMHO. Lee was good, Nate was stupid. Jamaal? Steph? Q? The cap situation. Even taking Curry without the DNA test is a ridiculous position. It shows his willingness to do anything to get ahead and he does not care who he hurts.
    What else would you expect from Dolan? Clearly Thomas should have laid low and not been at last night game in the crowd. Hie ego won't let him lay low. Does anybody doubt that the liklihood that this woman was expected to create jobs for Steph and Dolans peeps?
    Do I think women get harrassed in the workplace? Sure I also think women's movment should stop playing both sides of the coin. They won't say boo about sexually permissive clothing and then jump on the bandwagon with espect to harrassment issues.
    I once when to my supervisor about a woman in my office whose attire could easily have been accepted in a strip club. He wanted nothing to do with it. All I requested was he ask her to dress more professionally. In my book sexy is OK, slutty is not. (at work of course ) You just could not look at her and avoid the views.
    A few days later a client visiting my office said to me " do I need singles if I go over to that hottie over there." I burst out laughing. She overheard the whole thing and went and complained. This is a woman that flirted hard with every hard body in the office, but was "grossed out" from the comment from a guy nearing 60 and was mortified that I laughed.
    She got fired and sued the company. I was ordered to attend sensitivety training. Any doubt I would have gotten the axe if I hadn't mentioned her inappropriate attire a few days before the incident. I offered to attend only if my supervisor had to go as well since he was insensitive to my original complaint. Within a week I had found another job and negotiated a severance package under the threat of legal action myself. Fact is you are screwed if you get accused of anything close to harrassment even if you are innocent. So Thomas is screwed, but he has set himself up for this with his past actions. Of course screwed is a relative term. I would happily be screwed like him and ride off into the sunset with his cash
    There are no easy areas with these issues as so many grey areas exist, yet people and corps want black and white policies.

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