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Thread: Mets = A's?

  1. #1
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    Mets = A's?

    its funny how Rick Peterson has been getting knocked since he got here but low and behold just as the A's once did the mets are stockpiled with young talented startes, the rotation next year COULD include:

    Pelfrey
    Humber
    Heilman
    Bannister

    all those guys have lots to prove but the potential is there.

  2. #2
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    What does Rick Peterson have to do with that?

    There's not a chance that the rotation has all those guys in it. Pelfrey should be good, we'll see how good Humber is this year, and Bannister is, at best, a #4 starter.

    I mean, you can say this about any team. The Yankee rotation next year COULD include:
    Philip Hughes
    Tyler Clippard
    Chien-Ming Wang
    Scott Proctor

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    What does Rick Peterson have to do with that?

    There's not a chance that the rotation has all those guys in it. Pelfrey should be good, we'll see how good Humber is this year, and Bannister is, at best, a #4 starter.

    I mean, you can say this about any team. The Yankee rotation next year COULD include:
    Philip Hughes
    Tyler Clippard
    Chien-Ming Wang
    Scott Proctor
    Umm Rick Peterson is the pitching coach he has everything to do with it, not to mention that he RUNS the entire organizations pitching, everything including the way they scout, the way they train and the way they pitch.

    and you have seen 0 of Bannister as most have so i dont know why you are saying he is no better then a 4, besides sorry but not one of those yankee guys are considered ace material.

    Heilman - proven commodity and still young
    Pelfrey - one of the top rated young pitchers in baseball
    Humber - we will see
    Bannister - jumped from double A to MLB

    so we will see, but i predict 3 of the 4 are in the rotation next year and are good.

  4. #4
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    He is also the "genius" who approved the Kazmir for Zambrano trade! and said, he'd fix Zambrano in 15 minutes!!! tick..tick...tick...

    what magic did he do with Looper? Royce Ring the next great lefty setup man? Loves Seo so much he had him traded!

    Peterson has been nothing but over-rated since he got here....and I'm a METS FAN!!!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by emslave
    Umm Rick Peterson is the pitching coach he has everything to do with it, not to mention that he RUNS the entire organizations pitching, everything including the way they scout, the way they train and the way they pitch.

    and you have seen 0 of Bannister as most have so i dont know why you are saying he is no better then a 4, besides sorry but not one of those yankee guys are considered ace material.

    Heilman - proven commodity and still young
    Pelfrey - one of the top rated young pitchers in baseball
    Humber - we will see
    Bannister - jumped from double A to MLB

    so we will see, but i predict 3 of the 4 are in the rotation next year and are good.
    Yeah, he's the pitchcing coach, not the general manager. He doesn't decide that those guys should be kept, and others should be traded. He wasn't the one that decided to trade your best pitching prospect, Yusmeiro Petit, as part of the Carlos Delgado deal. Well, he did decide to try to play GM once, and that ended up with you trading Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano.

    OK, firstly, the scouting reports that I've read say that Bannister's a #4 type guy - doesn't have much velocity on the fastball. Secondly, I've seen him pitch in ST and a #4 looks about right. Thirdly, you should not say things like, "but not one of those yankee guys are considered ace material" if you don't actually know that. Philip Hughes has ace potential. It's not that he might have ace potential - it is that he does. He has more potential than any Met pitching prospect and it isn't close.

    Heilman - a career ERA, while pitchcing in the NL, of around 4.50. What's proven about that? So far, he's proved that he's a below average pitcher whose organization doesn't think he should be in the rotation. Saying that, I do think he's a good pitcher and if he got a shot, he would be solid. But no, he hasn't proven much.

    Pelfry - Just signed and should be quite good, but we'll see.

    Humbry - Coming off TJ surgery.

    Bannister - #4 potential.
    Last edited by JeffWeaverFan; 04-01-2006 at 12:37 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    He wasn't the one that decided to trade your best pitching prospect, Yusmeiro Petit, as part of the Carlos Delgado deal.
    The same pitching prospect who couldn't even make the Marlins club this year?

    Well, he did decide to try to play GM once, and that ended up with you trading Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano.
    How do we know this?

    Philip Hughes has ace potential. It's not that he might have ace potential - it is that he does. He has more potential than any Met pitching prospect and it isn't close.
    Pelfrey has ace potential.
    Heilman - a career ERA, while pitchcing in the NL, of around 4.50. What's proven about that? So far, he's proved that he's a below average pitcher whose organization doesn't think he should be in the rotation. Saying that, I do think he's a good pitcher and if he got a shot, he would be solid. But no, he hasn't proven much.
    Below average? I don't see how using ERA stats from before he returned to his natural pitching angle is relevant. And weren't you the one to say there are only 3 pitching stats that matter (and ERA wasn't one of them)?

  7. #7
    TMahoney
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    Let me insert some reality into this discussion.

    The New York Mets will never be like the A's.

    There is nothing special about our pitching prospects. What is special about the Mets are the deals we haven't made. Minaya didn't trade Heilman or Milledge or Reyes or Wright. He's sticking with the young guys and signing some Veterans. He traded Jacobs and Seo, two nice young players but clearly not players that fit into the Mets plans. We didn't need a solid first baseman, we needed an offensive star. We didn't need a good 6th starting pitcher, we needed relief pitching.

    Minaya isn't unloading youth for veterans like the GM's of the past. You can certainly make a case that Wilpon has been willing to spend sums of money in free agency as to give the GM an alternative to trades, but still, the Athletics and Red Sox were both interested in Milledge and the trade was never made. Minaya will not give away the premium prospects unless he's getting a great deal. In modern day baseball, the GM is the most important person in the organization. They can build or ruin franchises.

    This is the year we put it all together. A lot of people are saying that the Rotation is thin, parts of the bullpen are unproven and that Beltran needs to bounce back for this whole thing to work. But if you look at the New York Mets, they've got the pieces in place. They've got youthful energy and veteran leadership working together.

    Pedro's toe will be fine. The experts have been questioning his health for years, but Pedro Martinez is a gamer. He plays through pain and plays well. He's a devastating pitcher in Shea Stadium and will continue to anchor the staff. Glavine is a fine #2 guy. He may be old, but he doesn't rely on his arm as much as his knowledge. Glavine had a nice second half last year. How many games did he pitch well in and either Looper blew it or the offense let him down?

    Which brings me to my next point: Billy Wagner. The single best move the Mets made this offseason. Delgado will be great, but having a not just reliable but dominant closer is much more than just a comfort level. Its boosts team morale. When Looper blew a big game last year you could see the team get down on themselves. Now we've got a closer that everybody will be confident in. This well let the young guys play free of anxiety late in the game and keep the old guys from giving up.

    Delgado was another huge trade. Takes pressure of Beltran, gives us a legit cleanup hitter and plugs the hole at first base.

    The batting order isn't set in stone but look at the first five players opposing pitchers have to face: Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran, David Wright, Carlos Delgado and Cliff Floyd.

    The Mets have speed, average, power and versatility.

    If you go with the safe assumptions that Reyes and Wright can only improve, with less pressure and injuries Beltran will have a better year than '05, Delgado will be Delgado, Pedro will be Pedro and Wagner will be Wagner, us Met fans are in for a great year.
    Last edited by CarlSpackler; 04-01-2006 at 12:43 PM.

  8. #8
    TMahoney
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    2006 NL EAST CHAMPIONS

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBound
    The same pitching prospect who couldn't even make the Marlins club this year?
    Wasn't he hurt during ST this year? Either way, he was still considered your best pitching prospect.


    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBound
    How do we know this?
    It was widely reported that Peterson wanted Victor Zambrano because he could turn him to an ace in "10 minutes." Also, it was reported that the Mets organization didn't like Kazmir's attitude.
    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBound
    Pelfrey has ace potential.
    I guess so. But, he has yet to throw a pitch in the minor league level yet, so you never know. Philip Hughes is by far the better prospect as of now.


    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBound
    Below average? I don't see how using ERA stats from before he returned to his natural pitching angle is relevant. And weren't you the one to say there are only 3 pitching stats that matter (and ERA wasn't one of them)?
    Yeah, this was kind of a stupid point by me. I guess I was just saying that he has yet to be a real good pitcher in his ML career since his career ERA is over 4.60. But, last year he turned it all around so I don't know exactly what I was getting at. Those 3 pitching stats that I think matter are more predictive than anything else - and if someone has a bad ERA while good with those stats, then he was unlucky. Although that is unlikely. Last year Heilman was fantastic and as long as he keeps those K/9, K/BB, and G/F similar, he should continue to be fantastic.

  10. #10
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    era is definitely an important stat for a pitcher in terms of his effectiveness. although it may be minutely affected by the defense behind you, it still gives a good indicaton oh how effective a pitcher was in a given season. anyway, until we see how well bannister dosn over the long haul of an entire major league season i don't see how you can make any concrete predicitons on his ceiling.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by neckdemon
    era is definitely an important stat for a pitcher in terms of his effectiveness. although it may be minutely affected by the defense behind you, it still gives a good indicaton oh how effective a pitcher was in a given season. anyway, until we see how well bannister dosn over the long haul of an entire major league season i don't see how you can make any concrete predicitons on his ceiling.
    What I'm saying is that if pitchers have good K/BB, K/9, and/or G/F, then their ERA will be good. If a pitcher has an exceptional K/9 and K/BB and doesn't have a good ERA, then he most likely got very unlucky in the season.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    Wasn't he hurt during ST this year? Either way, he was still considered your best pitching prospect.
    Which really wasn't saying much... I just don't think his stuff is going to pass as a top of the rotation starter, he relies mostly on deception to get by. That being said, I think he will be a solid bottom of the rotation starter... but apparently not yet. It's a case of Omar selling high


    It was widely reported that Peterson wanted Victor Zambrano because he could turn him to an ace in "10 minutes." Also, it was reported that the Mets organization didn't like Kazmir's attitude.
    Petersen said he could fix Zambrano in 10 minutes... and while that quote seems a little hasty, it wasn't a public quote, it was a leak overhead by a staff member that shouldn't have been disclosed. Petersen has improved Zambrano's mechanics, it's his head/composure that Victor has problems with, and no one can fix that but himself.
    That being said, it will always be a horrible trade, but we have nothing to suggest Petersen made that deal and I see no reason to assume it.

    I guess so. But, he has yet to throw a pitch in the minor league level yet, so you never know. Philip Hughes is by far the better prospect as of now.
    Hughes has a season of A ball, and Pelfrey was the best pitcher in his draft class. Hughes has pitched more in the minors since Pelfrey, but I don't think he's ahead of him by far. We were talking about potential anyways, and both have 'ace' ceilings due to their stuff.

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