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Thread: Is Jeter the AL MVP?

  1. #1
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    Is Jeter the AL MVP?

    http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees...vin_kernan.htm

    August 6, 2006 -- PHIL Rizzuto was the one and only Yankee shortstop to win the Most Valuable Player award. That was 56 years ago. That could change this year with Derek Jeter.
    Jeter is putting up the numbers, he's second in the majors in batting with a .350 average. More importantly, in a season where the Yankees have lost run-producers Hideki Matsui and Gary Sheffield to wrist injuries, Jeter is the one who has kept the Yankees together at shortstop and batting second.

    That's what MVPs do.

    Jeter leads the Yankees in average, hits (143), total bases (199), doubles (26), stolen bases (24) and is producing when the Yankees need him most; batting .369 since the All-Star break, hitting .500 with the bases loaded and .444 with runners on second and third. For all of David Ortiz's walkoff glory and home-run power, the Yankee shortstop is doing it on offense and defense.

    Red Sox Nation says it should be MVPapi, but for all-around excellence, Jeter is your MVP right now.

    In typical Jeter fashion, he said he has not even thought about the award.

    "I'd much rather win a World Series," Jeter told me. "We're trying to win the division. You do whatever you can to help. There's a long way to go."

    That singular team focus is what carries Jeter through. That is the essence of Derek Jeter.

    "If you're going to sit around and worry solely about yourself, when you get in a funk, it's going to be hard to get out of it," Jeter explained. "But if you focus on every day what you can try to do to help the team win, it makes the season a lot more fun."

    That's how you wind up with four World Series rings.

    Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi just witnessed first-hand what Jeter means to the Yankees. "Being a big basketball fan and being from Boston, Jeter reminds me of [John] Havlicek, and he reminds me of Larry Bird," Ricciardi said. "They want to win and they find a way to win. That's the way you're defined in this game."

    That is the Genius of Jeter.

    "We're always chasing [the Yankees], I see the value of Derek Jeter," Ricciardi added. "I'm a huge Derek Jeter fan. I can't believe people say he's overrated. Yes, he may have lost a step, but when he has to make the big play, he makes it."

    In his own clubhouse, Jeter is revered for much the same reasons.

    "All Derek thinks about is winning," said former Gold Glove shortstop Larry Bowa, the Yankees third base coach. Following a loss earlier this season when Jeter excelled, Bowa told him, "Hey, way to swing the bat."

    Jeter responded, "Yeah, but we lost."

    After a game where Jeter struggled at the plate, Bowa offered an encouraging, "Get 'em tomorrow."

    Jeter answered, "That's all right, we won tonight."

    Some say Jeter is overrated. I believe he's actually underrated.

    "When I saw Derek earlier this year," Ricciardi said, "I told him: 'You know, I've seen you since you were in Double-A, I have never seen you not run a ground ball out.' Never, ever. I also told him: 'We use you as an example in our system. Here's a guy who plays hard all the time, here's a guy who is making a lot of money, here's a guy who has the world at his fingertips and the guy still plays hard. Why can't they?'"

    Mariano Rivera knows greatness. "If Derek continues to play the way he's playing, he's got a chance to win MVP, but there's a long way to go, a lot of games left," Rivera said.

    Where would the Yankees be without Jeter? "It would be tough," Rivera said. Jorge Posada noted his close friend is "a one-track player."

    Posada explained: "Every time Derek goes out there, he wants to win and he's having a great year. He's really been the guy you want up there when you got people on base."

    Alex Rodriguez is a two-time MVP winner and beat out Ortiz last year.

    "Derek has been right in the middle of everything we've done this year," A-Rod said. "Something that's been overlooked is, by far, he's had his best defensive year of the past seven or eight years that I've watched him. He's having a phenomenal defensive year. That's been overlooked because he's having such a great offensive year."

    When the season is played out, Rodriguez wants the voters to look at the big picture.

    "Big Papi is one of the greatest hitters in the game, and I'm not taking anything away from David, but you can't compare him to a shortstop because a shortstop is so important to what happens on the field every day," A-Rod said.

    Batting coach Don Mattingly won the MVP award in 1985 when he piled up 145 RBIs, 35 home runs and a .324 batting average for a 97-win team that didn't make the postseason. "When you start throwing numbers around, it's not going to be the same as a guy who hits 40-some home runs, but Derek's been amazing for us. Anything we've needed, he's been doing," Donnie Baseball said.

    "If you need to get a guy on base, if you need to steal a base, if you need a big play, a big hit to drive in a run, he's done it. He's been phenomenal. I don't think you can appreciate him, until you see him day to day. Every day, he's trying to find a way to win this game."

    Mattingly, whose son Preston was a first-round pick of the Dodgers this June, offered the ultimate Jeter compliment. "I told my boy to watch Jeter play," he said. "This is how you play the game."

    Concluded Ricciardi: "Jeter is what I call a 'Turn Out the Lights' kind of player. That is, if you shut the lights off at Yankee Stadium and told everybody the game was canceled, Derek Jeter would still show up and play. And he'd still play the same way with no one here."

    That's what makes him Derek Jeter. If the Yankees win the AL East and Jeter's outstanding all-around performance continues, he's the MVP.

    kevin.kernan@nypost.com

  2. #2
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    no...you have to give it to the dominican mo vaughn..without him the red sox would be done..
    mo vaughn in shape with the red sox


    and out of shape with the mets..you remember how he was as quick as a cat around first base ..he couldn't even bend over to pick up the ball..




    and the dominican mo vaughn..the 2006 mvp


  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by bill parcells
    no...you have to give it to the dominican mo vaughn..without him the red sox would be done..
    mo vaughn in shape with the red sox


    and out of shape with the mets..you remember how he was as quick as a cat around first base ..he couldn't even bend over to pick up the ball..




    and the dominican mo vaughn..the 2006 mvp
    Ummmm... ok?

    There is no way Jeter is MVP though as long as Papi continues to smash walk offs like every other day.

  4. #4
    I started a thread on this on a Yankee board and will just copy what I posted on that. The stats will be a little different than the ones I posted as it is 3 days old:



    I figured we should start this at some point of time. Fun debates have gone on between the Yankee and Sox fans on this board the last 2 years (Sheff vs. Manny in 2004, A-Rod vs. Ortiz in 2005), so lets start it up this year.

    Right now, it's Jeter vs. Ortiz... There really aren't many other guys that you could argue should win the MVP. Joe Mauer is one of them. Travis Hafner is having an MVP-caliber year but his team is terrible so he's got no shot. Vernon Wells is another guy but his team isn't going to make the playoffs either.

    Obviously, I will be arguing for Jeter. Ortiz has been great this year, but his offense is coming from a position that always gets a lot of offense while Jeter is doing it from the SS position. Ortiz has been as clutch as a player can possibly be, but I believe those things can be a bit overated. (Does Jeter's 2 RBI's in the 7th inning count less than Ortiz's 2 run HR in the bottom of the 9th when down by 1 run if the Yankees go on to win by 1 run?)

    So, lets look up the stats here.

    Jeter is hitting .354/.429/.494/.923. Ortiz is hitting .286/.390/.614/1.004. Ortiz is the clear leader, but Jeter's OBP is significantly better than Ortiz's. Plus, Jeter is doing this as a SS while Ortiz as a DH, which leads us into VORP

    Jeter is the clear leader in VORP. He is 2nd in the majors with a 56.3 VORP (behind Hafner - wow, what a year!), while Ortiz is 11th with a 47.6.
    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/st...x.php?cid=9653

    Ortiz is batting .303/.422/.582 with RISP and .302/.362/.778 in close and late situations. Jeter is batting .384/.492/.525 with RISP and .327/.478/.423 in close and late situations. With RISP/2 outs, Jeter is hitting .425/.588/.600 while Ortiz is hitting .288/.431/.558 with RISP/2 outs.

    So, with that, let the discussion begin. Obviously, if one team makes the playoffs and the other team does not, that will be a huge plus for that player. If both teams make the playoffs, I would strongly argue that Jeter deserves the MVP over Ortiz and, frankly, I don't think it's all that close.

  5. #5
    jeter ha sbeen good. but if it ended today i have to give it to ortiz. oh, jermiane btw, the "dominican mo vaughn" is big papi.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by neckdemon
    jeter ha sbeen good. but if it ended today i have to give it to ortiz. oh, jermiane btw, the "dominican mo vaughn" is big papi.
    Why would you give it to Ortiz if the season ended today? His offense has been as good as Jeter's. Jeter has been as good as Ortiz in close/late situations. Jeter is a SS and Ortiz is a DH. Jeter's team would make the playoffs today and Ortiz's team would not. Honestly, I don't think it's that close.

  7. #7
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    MVP in the AL is a no- Brainer this year. Its A-ROD!!!

  8. #8
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    I am NOT a Yankee hater by far and I HATE the Red Sox, but if Jeter gets the AL MVP title... Ortiz got robbed 2 years in a row by Yankees.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by neckdemon
    oh, jermiane btw, the "dominican mo vaughn" is big papi.
    yeah, I know... but it's just such a hard reach to try to piss off Mets fans... he even looked on the internet for pictures of Mo Vaughn.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JetBidi
    I am NOT a Yankee hater by far and I HATE the Red Sox, but if Jeter gets the AL MVP title... Ortiz got robbed 2 years in a row by Yankees.
    I have yet to here a legit reason why Ortiz deserves it more than Jeter this year. Why does Ortiz deserve it over Jeter this year? This could be a legit discussion if you come up with actual reasons.

    And in all honesty, A-Rod deserved it over Ortiz last year. He had more win shares, a better VORP, just as good offensive numbers, played a very good defense...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    I have yet to here a legit reason why Ortiz deserves it more than Jeter this year. Why does Ortiz deserve it over Jeter this year? This could be a legit discussion if you come up with actual reasons.

    And in all honesty, A-Rod deserved it over Ortiz last year. He had more win shares, a better VORP, just as good offensive numbers, played a very good defense...

    Wow... It does not end with your Yankee Bias.

    Ortiz got robbed last year because his numbers were very similar to A-Rods, however he was the single reason for a number of Red Sox wins while A-Rod began developing his reputation as being poor in the clutch. despite having a slightly lower avg, Papi also had 18 more RBIs than A-Rod, which I personally think is the foremost signifier of a MVP. He also had those numbers on a team that did not have as many promiment hitters. While he had Manny, it's still easier to pad your stats when playing next to guys like sheffield, Jeter, Giambi, and Matsui.

    The real reason why A-Rod won the MVP last year was because he played the field and Papi didnt. And even though I hate the Yankees, I almost have to agree with this. But that's only because I hate the idea of a "Designated Hitter". I think every player should have to play a position, 9 out, 9 in, and so I understand why Ortiz wasnt given the MVP. But at the same time, I view it as a mere technicality why he lost. If you remember the buzz last year, it seemed everyone involved in the voting admitted that was the reason as well.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    I have yet to here a legit reason why Ortiz deserves it more than Jeter this year. Why does Ortiz deserve it over Jeter this year? This could be a legit discussion if you come up with actual reasons.

    And in all honesty, A-Rod deserved it over Ortiz last year. He had more win shares, a better VORP, just as good offensive numbers, played a very good defense...
    How about he played defense period? If the offensive numbers are as close as Arod's and Ortiz's were last year, the fact that Ortiz was primarily a DH and Arod was the Yankees everyday third baseman AND the Yanks won the division certainly put the votes in Arod's column, and deservedly so.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaine
    Wow... It does not end with your Yankee Bias.

    Ortiz got robbed last year because his numbers were very similar to A-Rods, however he was the single reason for a number of Red Sox wins while A-Rod began developing his reputation as being poor in the clutch. despite having a slightly lower avg, Papi also had 18 more RBIs than A-Rod, which I personally think is the foremost signifier of a MVP. He also had those numbers on a team that did not have as many promiment hitters. While he had Manny, it's still easier to pad your stats when playing next to guys like sheffield, Jeter, Giambi, and Matsui.

    The real reason why A-Rod won the MVP last year was because he played the field and Papi didnt. And even though I hate the Yankees, I almost have to agree with this. But that's only because I hate the idea of a "Designated Hitter". I think every player should have to play a position, 9 out, 9 in, and so I understand why Ortiz wasnt given the MVP. But at the same time, I view it as a mere technicality why he lost. If you remember the buzz last year, it seemed everyone involved in the voting admitted that was the reason as well.
    It wasn't just that Arod plays a position, it was also that Arod's team WON THE DIVISION!!! It's the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER AWARD, not the best hitter award. The best hitter award is the HANK AARON AWARD, which, I believe Ortiz won last year, and rightfully so.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Klecko73isGod
    It wasn't just that Arod plays a position, it was also that Arod's team WON THE DIVISION!!! It's the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER AWARD, not the best hitter award. The best hitter award is the HANK AARON AWARD, which, I believe Ortiz won last year, and rightfully so.
    in a one game playoff they won the division :/

    You would like to think that winning the division was a deciding factor, but it honestly was not. If you remember listening to the analysts, writers, etc who voted last year, that was not the reason. The main reason was not that, but like you said, the fact that he played defense.


    And lets face it, the MVP award has essentially became the the "best hitter award" with a requirement that the player just be serviceable as a position player... Otherwise guys like Juicin' Jason and Bonds and wouldnt win.

    Ortiz was not a position player, and thats why he didnt win.
    Last edited by Jermaine; 08-07-2006 at 01:18 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaine
    in a one game playoff they won the division :/

    And lets face it, the MVP award has essentially became the the "best hitter award" with a requirement that the player just be serviceable as a position player... Otherwise guys like Juicin' Jason and Bonds and wouldnt win.

    Ortiz was not a position player, and thats why he didnt win.
    The desire of MLB to see otherwise worthy players who didn't have eye-popping power numbers but helped their team win games with their glove or their legs or their leadership, in other words true MVPs, is exactly the reason the Hank Aaron award was created a few years ago.

    Unfortunately, the voters, who are idiot sportswriters with no sense of history, have not allowed the addition of the Hank Aaron award to recognize the best hitter while allowing the MVP award to go to the type of player it was originally intended to honor.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Klecko73isGod
    The desire of MLB to see otherwise worthy players who didn't have eye-popping power numbers but helped their team win games with their glove or their legs or their leadership, in other words true MVPs, is exactly the reason the Hank Aaron award was created a few years ago.

    Unfortunately, the voters, who are idiot sportswriters with no sense of history, have not allowed the addition of the Hank Aaron award to recognize the best hitter while allowing the MVP award to go to the type of player it was originally intended to honor.
    Maybe so, but it's a practical evolution if anything.

    The players who hit the most home runs and pack the most stats on are always the most talked about and most famous and most payed, starting with your hero Babe Ruth... so the fact that writers havent factored in the Hank Aaron award doesnt bother me that much.... that's just how it is and you have to accept it.

    The bottom line is though, which you almost admitted yourself in so many words, is that Ortiz would have won the MVP if he just would have played the field. That's why people say he got "robbed".

    Whether you think that that's the way it should be, is up to you, but i'm just explaining to the guy why people say he got robbed.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill parcells
    no...you have to give it to the dominican mo vaughn..without him the red sox would be done..
    mo vaughn in shape with the red sox


    and out of shape with the mets..you remember how he was as quick as a cat around first base ..he couldn't even bend over to pick up the ball..




    and the dominican mo vaughn..the 2006 mvp


    Funny,. I always thought they were clones.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaine
    Ummmm... ok?

    There is no way Jeter is MVP though as long as Papi continues to smash walk offs like every other day.

    He did the same thing last year and didnt get it.. The excuse is he doesnt play the field.. Its stupid but true.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    Why would you give it to Ortiz if the season ended today? His offense has been as good as Jeter's. Jeter has been as good as Ortiz in close/late situations. Jeter is a SS and Ortiz is a DH. Jeter's team would make the playoffs today and Ortiz's team would not. Honestly, I don't think it's that close.

    If the season would have ended 7 days ago, does that mean Big papi should get it since Yanks would be out of the playoffs?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaine
    Maybe so, but it's a practical evolution if anything.

    The players who hit the most home runs and pack the most stats on are always the most talked about and most famous and most payed, starting with your hero Babe Ruth... so the fact that writers havent factored in the Hank Aaron award doesnt bother me that much.... that's just how it is and you have to accept it.

    The bottom line is though, which you almost admitted yourself in so many words, is that Ortiz would have won the MVP if he just would have played the field. That's why people say he got "robbed".

    Whether you think that that's the way it should be, is up to you, but i'm just explaining to the guy why people say he got robbed.
    Were did I "admit in so many words" that Ortiz would have won the MVP has he played the field? In fact, I think that had Ortiz played the field he would have most likely hurt his MVP chances.

    How did he get robbed? You and many Ortiz supporters always point out that he had a whopping 18 more RBI than Arod (a negligible amount over a 162 game season esp. when Arod had 130.) You conveniently fail to mention that Arod had a higher BA .321 to .300, more hits, 194 to 180, a higher OBA, .421 to .397, a higher slugging average, .621 to .534, more HR, 48 to 47 and more stolen bases, 21 to 1.

    And he played a pretty good 3B last year. In fact he had one fewer error and a higher fielding percentage, .977 to .966 than Eric Chavez, who won the Gold Glove last year.

    So how, exactly did Ortiz get robbed, other than the fact that he is not Yankee in your pathetic, homeriffic world view? In fact, after doing five mintues of research, I'm starting to think that Arod got robbed of the Hank Aaron award last year.

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