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Thread: US Army war crimes in Vietnam

  1. #1
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    US Army war crimes in Vietnam

    This is probably about 1/5 of the actual crimes..This is why it helps to have an actual reason to fight wars..rather than Geo Political/Economic reasons...

    LOS ANGELES - Atrocities against civilians and prisoners by Army soldiers during the Vietnam War were more common than originally disclosed to the public, according to a Los Angeles Times review of recently unsealed government files.

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    Some 9,000 pages of records the largest collection of documented war crimes in Vietnam include sworn witness testimony, investigative files and status reports for top military brass that detail 320 wartime atrocities substantiated by the Army.

    Still, few soldiers were held accountable for the war crimes, according to the newspaper's findings which appeared in Sunday's edition.

    The abuse was not restricted to one rogue Army division, but was committed by every Army division operating in Vietnam, the Times review found.

    Among the incidents documented in the files:

    _Seven civilian massacres from 1967 to 1971 that left at least 137 dead.

    _Seventy-eight additional attacks on unarmed civilians that left at least 57 dead, 56 wounded and 15 sexually assaulted.

    _141 incidents in which U.S. soldiers tortured civilian detainees and prisoners of war.

    In one incident detailed in the report, members of the B Company in February 1968 rounded up and gunned down a group of villagers that included women and children after being ordered by a lieutenant to "kill anything that moves."

    The files, collected by a Pentagon task force in the 1970s, do not include the most notorious U.S. atrocity, the 1968 My Lai massacre. The incident, which left some 500 Vietnamese villagers dead, was exposed by reporter Seymour Hersh the following year.

    Retired Brig. Gen. John H. Johns, who was part of the task force that gathered the files, said he no longer thought the atrocities should remain in the dark.

    "We can't change current practices unless we acknowledge the past," said Johns, 78.

    The files show investigators found enough evidence to charge 203 soldiers with crimes related to the mistreatment of Vietnamese civilians and prisoners. But only 57 soldiers were court-martialed and 23 convicted, the Times reported.

    Fourteen soldiers received prison sentences ranging from six months to 20 years, but most served much less time.

    A former legal adviser to the Army's Criminal Investigation Division said there was scarce interest in prosecuting Vietnam war crimes after the war.

    "Everyone wanted Vietnam to go away," said Steven Chucala, now a civilian attorney for the Army in Virginia.

  2. #2
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    Good, they should have done more.

  3. #3
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    BMan-

    No doubt we did a job on Vietnam you would think they would be strapping bombs on their children and walking into our subways just to get even. They're engaging in trade with us. When Americans go to Hanoi or Saigon they actually greet us with open arms. How do you explain that they aren't playing the victim card? The Vietnamese have a right to hate us even more than self hating Americans hate us.

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    I know..And the Vietnamese never flew planes into US landmarks!
    I posted that b/c there's a bunch of people who think that somehow the US military is different from others..
    It took balls for John Kerry to stand up and say this war is wrong..

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bman
    I know..And the Vietnamese never flew planes into US landmarks!
    I posted that b/c there's a bunch of people who think that somehow the US military is different from others..
    It took balls for John Kerry to stand up and say this war is wrong..
    F*ck that ignorant sentiment. Kerry didn't just say the war was "wrong." He lied and smeared his fellow men while they were still in country facing hostile fire. Men that included MY F*CKING FATHER!! So put your stupid, ignorant, moronic thoughts about what Kerry did on a piece of toast and shove it where the sun don't shine. Kerry bounced from the theater after a cup of coffee and three self-inflicted wounds that caused him to literally need bacitracin and a band-aid applied, causing him to mis exatly zero second of active duty time and then he came home and publicly LIED about witnessing atrocities, all to further his political career. Christ, he brought a video camera with him over there and filmed "re-enactments" of his heroism and you can tell by that footage alone that he doesn't even know how to properly carry an M-79.

    When pressed to offer one...just ONE F*CKING SPECIFIC EXAMPLE OR A NAME of the many things he "witnessed" he backed away and couldn't do it. This silence, from a man who ostensibly was so affected by wht he saw that he publicly testified before congress. Now, he says he "regrets" some of his "choice of words" and still cannot offer a single shred of evidence. Yeah, he cares enough to go public, not obviously not enough to, you know, punish the specific people he saw doing there things. And NONE of the 250 (250!!!!!!!!) people who can account for where he was for the entire 3 months (3 months, are you kidding me??) he was in country corroborate his story.

    People like Kerry are what make this country horrible. Follow his rhetoric throughout his career...the first Gulf War, nowadays...he HATES this country. He is a f*cking lying traitor. What about that night he was near the border, a night that was "seared" into his memory...and it never happened? What about him meeting with the f*cking enemy in Paris? What about his open gushing about the Sandinistas?

    You know, in MA, he runs for Senate from time to tme, as we all know. He's released his tax records for each year in thew 1990's. Did you know that on at least three occassions, Mr. Kerry - champion of the little people, Mr. Compassion, Mr. Liberal - gave literally not one red cent to charity? NOT ONE PENNY!

    He is a scumbag, traitorous, p*syy-a$$ POS that doesn't deserve to lead a little league baseball team. F*ck Kerry and f*ck any ignorant pr*ck who defends what he did during the Vietnam War. You cannot win that argument. The only thing you can do is expose yourself as a hack. Any objectibe person realizes that just because atrocities were committed that lying abot witnessing them is not okay. Rapes occur at colleges, but that fact alone doesn't allow me to say that I saw rapes at a specific college and that the college staff ancouraged them and covered them up. F*CK John Kerry. Him losing the election is the best thing to have happened to our country in a while.

    (everything is fine with little Georgie - I am working on about 2 hours of sleep here...so keep that in mind!)

  6. #6
    Bravo, Jets5.

  7. #7
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    Jets5, I agree with everything you posted.

    Just remember the source. It's posted from a guy that love's his country so much he revel's in any of its misery. Probably posting from the basement of his parent's house in between trolling for pre-teens on the internet.

    He's so smart, he can't even figure out how to cut ADVERTISEMENT out of his cut and paste jobs, yet he's smart enough to guide America on the right path.

    In the war of wits, you're doing battle with an unarmed man.

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    And yet, when the final invasion from the North occurred in 1975, hundreds of thousands of Vietnameseethnicities and Cambodians, attempted to flee to the United States and hundreds of thousands continued to do so in the two decades after.

    The atrocities which were implemented by the North during the war and after it made any American crimes very insignificant by comparison.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrium
    The atrocities which were implemented by the North during the war and after it made any American crimes very insignificant by comparison.
    I agree with what you are saying, Equilibrium. But is this where we have gotten in the world today? Just as long as there is someone doing worse things than you are? I've noticed in the past few years that politics have gone the way of playground interaction. When someone points out Republican misconduct, the first explanation is "well on such-and-such date Democrat so-and so did this. And when someone points out Democrat misdeeds the response is "but the republicans did this". When someone says they think its wrong so many Iraqi civilians have been collateraly killed the response is "well, Saddam would of killed many many more". They just don't pass the buck anymore...they throw it around like a live hand grenade someone pulled the pin out of already.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan
    I've noticed in the past few years that politics have gone the way of playground interaction.
    Funny how you guys become so observant when you go from being predator to victim.

    Politics is all of a sudden so mean and nasty now that the battle is joined.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jets5ever
    F*ck that ignorant sentiment. Kerry didn't just say the war was "wrong." He lied and smeared his fellow men while they were still in country facing hostile fire. Men that included MY F*CKING FATHER!! So put your stupid, ignorant, moronic thoughts about what Kerry did on a piece of toast and shove it where the sun don't shine. Kerry bounced from the theater after a cup of coffee and three self-inflicted wounds that caused him to literally need bacitracin and a band-aid applied, causing him to mis exatly zero second of active duty time and then he came home and publicly LIED about witnessing atrocities, all to further his political career. Christ, he brought a video camera with him over there and filmed "re-enactments" of his heroism and you can tell by that footage alone that he doesn't even know how to properly carry an M-79.

    When pressed to offer one...just ONE F*CKING SPECIFIC EXAMPLE OR A NAME of the many things he "witnessed" he backed away and couldn't do it. This silence, from a man who ostensibly was so affected by wht he saw that he publicly testified before congress. Now, he says he "regrets" some of his "choice of words" and still cannot offer a single shred of evidence. Yeah, he cares enough to go public, not obviously not enough to, you know, punish the specific people he saw doing there things. And NONE of the 250 (250!!!!!!!!) people who can account for where he was for the entire 3 months (3 months, are you kidding me??) he was in country corroborate his story.

    People like Kerry are what make this country horrible. Follow his rhetoric throughout his career...the first Gulf War, nowadays...he HATES this country. He is a f*cking lying traitor. What about that night he was near the border, a night that was "seared" into his memory...and it never happened? What about him meeting with the f*cking enemy in Paris? What about his open gushing about the Sandinistas?

    You know, in MA, he runs for Senate from time to tme, as we all know. He's released his tax records for each year in thew 1990's. Did you know that on at least three occassions, Mr. Kerry - champion of the little people, Mr. Compassion, Mr. Liberal - gave literally not one red cent to charity? NOT ONE PENNY!

    He is a scumbag, traitorous, p*syy-a$$ POS that doesn't deserve to lead a little league baseball team. F*ck Kerry and f*ck any ignorant pr*ck who defends what he did during the Vietnam War. You cannot win that argument. The only thing you can do is expose yourself as a hack. Any objectibe person realizes that just because atrocities were committed that lying abot witnessing them is not okay. Rapes occur at colleges, but that fact alone doesn't allow me to say that I saw rapes at a specific college and that the college staff ancouraged them and covered them up. F*CK John Kerry. Him losing the election is the best thing to have happened to our country in a while.

    (everything is fine with little Georgie - I am working on about 2 hours of sleep here...so keep that in mind!)

    I stopped opening bman threads but I'm glad I bucked the trend and didn't miss this!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit of Dweeb
    Funny how you guys become so observant when you go from being predator to victim.

    Politics is all of a sudden so mean and nasty now that the battle is joined.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan
    I agree with what you are saying, Equilibrium. But is this where we have gotten in the world today? Just as long as there is someone doing worse things than you are? I've noticed in the past few years that politics have gone the way of playground interaction. When someone points out Republican misconduct, the first explanation is "well on such-and-such date Democrat so-and so did this. And when someone points out Democrat misdeeds the response is "but the republicans did this". When someone says they think its wrong so many Iraqi civilians have been collateraly killed the response is "well, Saddam would of killed many many more". They just don't pass the buck anymore...they throw it around like a live hand grenade someone pulled the pin out of already.

    Plumber, I have long felt the same way. The trend of moral equivalency is always a pretext for inaction or worse. It is really similar to revenge; at what point the cycle of revenge stop if each side is avenging injustices?

    At the same time, the media has a responsibility to demonstrate that when our citizens commit these crimes, they are prosecuted in accordance with our laws and that they are aberrations. Our enemies have historically committed crimes as part of their general strategy.

    It has long been the tendency of the left in this country to criticize any perception of a shortcoming as a demonstration of our lack of moral authority and the right as exhalting our perfection and the moral involability of our policies .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrium
    It has long been the tendency of the left in this country to criticize any perception of a shortcoming as a demonstration of our lack of moral authority and the right as exhalting our perfection and the moral involability of our policies .

    Oh man...is this more true now than ever. The worst part about political discourse is that people make you feel pressured to pick sides. Its the whole with us or against mentality.

    I hear alot of what our regular posters, ComeBack..JetMoses, say about how leftists extremists and their constant denegrating of American culture...and I agree with them. On the other hand I see what 8 years of staunch conservatism has done to our country, and quite frankly, don't believe its entirely good. The two-party system is supposed to reflect and compensate for the majority...but instead we live in a political see-saw with extremists on BOTH sides vying for control. Unfortunatly, I think regular everyday Americans are so caught up in just trying to make a living and get by that they don't have enough remaining time and energy to carefully consider both sides of an argument and come to a informed descision. And the media, liberal and conservative, don't help by reducing all political discourse in this country to 5 second soundbites that sound good but don't really convey a meaningful message. The level of vitrol and ferocity in mainstream media has reached such an earsplitting cresendo that is hard to seperate fact from mudslinging.

    But we keep plugging away...trying to understand this complex and mind numbing world we live in. I love my country and don't want to see it surrendered to any extremists, left or right, while the rest of mainstream America slowly choke to death on their ever increasing debt...

  15. #15
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    BMan, there were war ctimes committed in WWII also see if you can find anything on them? Is the glass half full or half empty to you!

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