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Thread: The fighting with lebanon may as well never come to a complete end.

  1. #1
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    The fighting with lebanon may as well never come to a complete end.

    as much as the folks in israel want to believe the beating of hezbollah from the southern border has changed public opinion in lebanon theyre are sadly mistaken. The destruction of civilian infrastructure, 1000 deaths and a million refugees contributes nothin more too than a greater sense of hatred towards the the jewish state. They drop leaflets on the villages telling the civilians that hezbollah is responsible for the destruction when inact in a short while bombs will fall from the very same military jets.
    The cease fire and the resolution will serve only as a bandage for a deep wound that has been open since the occupation of the shebaa farms. I dont care about the palestinian state and nor does the majority of the lebanese population but sadly until israel withdraws form the extremely valuable land named the shebaa farms the hostilities will never come to an end. The same goes for syria and the conflict over the golan heights. Peace with syria could have been easily achieved such as that of jordan and egypt had israel been willing to give back what was originally syrian territory. The conflict that sprung up over two kidnapped soldiers dates back to far more valuable possesions than simply going to war for the sole reason of vanquishing jews.

    Now you ask why is it that israel is so adamant at refusing to withdraw from the shebaa and golan heights when the u.n officially recognzies both properties as syrian and acknoledges the situation as annexation??? Well could it be that israel has one of the worst water situations in the entire world and can hit critical lows within the next decade? The population and water output puts the incoming water supply at such a danger that the nation could have future troubles at supplying every household with enough water to pour a glass to drink. Now we all are well aware that no civilization let alone life form could survive without the world's motst necessary and beneficial resource known to man as water.
    With four outgoing water supplies from the water rich shebaa farms why would anybody consider israel go against its own interests and settle the dispute that would eventually lead to the total dismantle of hezbollah?? Like i said things are certainly more complicated than the what immediately meets the eye. Sadly this past months conflict will only serve as a pretext for what my come in the future months and years leading up to even a greater hatred of israel by more and more young generation arabs.
    Last edited by Jets Till Death; 08-16-2006 at 01:25 AM.

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    JTD, You may be right and this indeed may be the beginning stages of armageddon ... I happen to believe it is, but I don't know that for sure {no one does but GOD} ... but it sure looks that way too me, all of the signs are in place, and if I'm right you would be well advised to convert to Christianity, its your only hope

    I know how this story ends and it won't end favorably for Islam ... they're playing for the wrong team, my friend, and I mean that in a spiritual sense

    You better think about these things JTD, your soul is officially at stake

    Take it for what its worth, but I'll pray for you JTD ... in some strange way I have come to like you ... I admire the way you speak your mind {reminds me of me} ... I like you as a person, so I am taking the unprecedented step {for me} to offer you a warning, that you have been seduced by evil ... you have been badly deceived and misled, but my heart would rejoice if you came to see the light

    Jesus Christ is your ticket to salvation, and time may be running out

    PS. I know your initial reaction will be to get angry with me, but I just gave you the best piece of advice any man has ever given you in all of your natural born life ... think it over, my friend, fore everything is at stake


    One more thing, just to clarify ... I said this is unprecedented for me and it is ... I make no secret of my religious convictions, at times I defend them with vigor {when they come under attack}, but I am not one who ever seeks to prosolatize ... I make it a habit to respect each mans right to choose his own set of beliefs ... but for some reason I have taken a liking to you, I don't think your a bad person, just one who has been deceived ... so I was compelled to break my own rule and drop you this note, which is something I never do, but this time I felt compelled ... don't ask me why, I really can't explain it, but I did what I was compelled to do
    Last edited by Green Jets & Ham; 08-16-2006 at 02:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham
    JTD, You may be right and this indeed may be the beginning stages of armageddon ... I happen to believe it is, but I don't know that for sure {no one does but GOD} ... but it sure looks that way too me, all of the signs are in place, and if I'm right you would be well advised to convert to Christianity, its your only hope

    I know how this story ends and it won't end favorably for Islam ... they're playing for the wrong team, my friend, and I mean that in a spiritual sense

    You better think about these things JTD, your soul is officially at stake

    Take it for what its worth, but I'll pray for you JTD ... in some strange way I have come to like you ... I admire the way you speak your mind {reminds me of me} ... I like you as a person, so I am taking the unprecedented step {for me} to offer you a warning, that you have been suduced by evil ... you have been badly deceived and misled, but my heart would rejoice if you came to see the light

    Jesus Christ is your ticket to salvation, and time may be running out

    PS. I know your initial reaction will be to get angry with me, but I just gave you the best piece of advice any man has ever given you in all of your natural born life ... think it over, my friend, fore everything is at stake


    One more thing, just to clarify ... I said this is unprecedented for me and it is ... I make no secret of my religious convictions, at times I defend them with vigor {when they come under attack}, but I am not one who ever seeks to prosolatize ... I make it a habit to respect each mans right to choose his own set of beliefs ... but for some reason I have taken a liking to you, I don't think your a bad person, just one who has been deceived ... so I was compelled to break my own rule and drop you this note, which is something I never do, but this time I felt compelled ... don't ask me why, I really can't explain it, but I did what I was compelled to do
    i respect your opinion and im not angry at all, you show alot of class by extending an invitation such as this one rather than blowing me off and responding with b.s. the problem i see with your post though ham is that my religious conviction is as deep as yours. I love and have faith in my religion as you do with christianity. I dont have ill feelings to christians or jews, in the quran every person is referred to as "people of the book." I love and cherish jesus christ(prophet isa) as i do prophet muhammad(s.a.w). He is a prophet of islam as is moses, (prophet musa).
    Although we live in a time of great uncertainty with disputes focusing primarily on religions and the beliefs of millions, lets not lose sight that almost every war in the history of man has been waged "in the name of god." Every believer thinks that his/her god is true and sadly in some cases uses that belief to fuel their own personal agendas. The palestinians want land to settle on and call their own, well that in no WAY makes them any better of a muslim. One does not require a possesion such as a piece of land to pursue god, therefore any "resistance" in the name of god is absolutely absurd.
    I understand the image that islam has in the current world, and quite frankly i cant do nothing to change that. It truly is a beatiful religion, appreciate it not for its beliefs or culture but atleast be wary of the many contributions this world has seen by the islamic empire. Lets not forget that nearly 1.6 billion, thats 1/3 of the world calls their god allah. Its unfair to hold a religion hostage due to extremism but unfortunately the actions of few are undoubtedly felt harder than those of many.

    On a final note all i can respond to you ham is that i have the utmost of gratitude for your previous post but im afraid the only way i can respond to you is that i am a man of god an im not sure if thats enough for you, but of course i must follow whats important for me, and that is to be the best person and muslim that i can through these truly challenging times. Life is a challenge in every sense of the word and im sure all believers would agree that the best way to overcome difficulty is with god in your mind and heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jets Till Death
    Now you ask why is it that israel is so adamant at refusing to withdraw from the shebaa and golan heights when the u.n officially recognzies both properties as syrian and acknoledges the situation as annexation??? Well could it be that israel has one of the worst water situations in the entire world and can hit critical lows within the next decade? The population and water output puts the incoming water supply at such a danger that the nation could have future troubles at supplying every household with enough water to pour a glass to drink. Now we all are well aware that no civilization let alone life form could survive without the world's motst necessary and beneficial resource known to man as water.
    With four outgoing water supplies from the water rich shebaa farms why would anybody consider israel go against its own interests and settle the dispute that would eventually lead to the total dismantle of hezbollah?? Like i said things are certainly more complicated than the what immediately meets the eye. Sadly this past months conflict will only serve as a pretext for what my come in the future months and years leading up to even a greater hatred of israel by more and more young generation arabs.
    Interesting that you freely admit that Sheba Farms and the Golan Heights are Syrian not Lebanese yet this is why Hezbollah isn't going to disarm in Lebanon? Let me give you another reason Israel might want to hold on to the Golan Heights and Sheba farms. In the case of the Golan Heights, it is high ground that has been used to shell Israel from. Israel took that piece of real estate because the PLO was allowed to shell Israel from that very strategic overlook by Syria. They took it for the exact same reason they went into Lebanon both times to stop the shelling of Israel.

    It sounds like you are freely admitting that Lebanon is not just a tool for Hezbollah but for Syria as well. Explain Lebanon's interest in Israel turning over either Sheba Farms or the Golan Heights to Syria?

    As long as Syria continues to be a terrorist supporter and committed to the destruction of Israel, Israel can't give them back strategic staging areas to attack them from. This is really one of the most BS arguments for Lebanon to allow Hezbollah not to disarm that I have ever heard. The idea that it is in Lebanon's interest to support Syria is a joke. Syria destroyed Lebanon the first time and the effectively aided Hezbollah in starting a proxy war that has now destroyed it again.

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    Let me see if I got this straight, JTD-

    You love Nasrallah and Ahmadijad (Mr. Potato Head), even though they assassinated former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.

    You love Nasrallah and Ahmadijad, who instigated this entire episode by kidnapping two IDF soldiers (where are they and what happened to them, by the way?).

    You love Kofi Anal and the UN, when they just legitimicised a terrorist organization, thus ensuring their stranglehold of power on Lebanon.

    You love Ahmadijad, even though he is the puppet master pulling all the strings, causing all the misery in Lebanon.

    You love ANSWER, because they support and encourage your efforts to proliferate pro-Hezbollah propaganda on American soil.

    You hate Ariel Sharon.

    Does that about sum it all up, or did I miss anything?

    Reuters has been caught red handed doctoring photo's, in an effort to give Hezbollah some sort of moral equivalency.

    The MSM headlines described a pro-hezbollah rally in Washington DC as "Demands to end middle east violence".

    And on and on. It all amounts to nothing more than lipstick on a pig.

    Doesn't any of this embarrass you? That your enablers have to go that far out of their way, to engage in notorious distortions of reality, in an effort to make you people palatable and presentable.

    Pathetic.

    The only one your BS'ing is yourself, JTD.
    Last edited by Jet Moses; 08-16-2006 at 09:02 AM.

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    Lighten up Francis.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Moses
    Let me see if I got this straight, JTD-

    You love Nasrallah and Ahmadijad (Mr. Potato Head), even though they assassinated former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.

    You love Nasrallah and Ahmadijad, who instigated this entire episode by kidnapping two IDF soldiers (where are they and what happened to them, by the way?).

    You love Kofi Anal and the UN, when they just legitimicised a terrorist organization, thus ensuring their stranglehold of power on Lebanon.

    You love Ahmadijad, even though he is the puppet master pulling all the strings, causing all the misery in Lebanon.

    You love ANSWER, because they support and encourage your efforts to proliferate pro-Hezbollah propaganda on American soil.

    You hate Ariel Sharon.

    Does that about sum it all up, or did I miss anything?

    Reuters has been caught red handed doctoring photo's, in an effort to give Hezbollah some sort of moral equivalency.

    The MSM headlines described a pro-hezbollah rally in Washington DC as "Demands to end middle east violence".

    And on and on. It all amounts to nothing more than lipstick on a pig.

    Doesn't any of this embarrass you? That your enablers have to go that far out of their way, to engage in notorious distortions of reality, in an effort to make you people palatable and presentable.

    Pathetic.

    The only one your BS'ing is yourself, JTD.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726
    Lighten up Francis.
    Well, well, well.

    You pulled your pants up, blew your nose, ate a lunch and now your back for another beating?

  8. #8
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    On Lebanese opinion:

    http://beirutspring.blogspot.com/
    Lebanese Reaction To Nassrallah’s Speech





    The Lebanese blogosphere was insulted by Nassrallah’s speech tonight.

    It seems I wasn’t the only one who decided to call things by their names from now on. After Nassrallah’s speech tonight, the unconvinced Lebanese bloggers unleashed a scathing attack on him. Here’s a glimpse:

    Rampurple: **** Off Nassrallah!
    That should be the answer of every Lebanese to this ******* after tonight’s speech.
    Who does he think he is ? threatening everyone and teaching us what to do ?

    He claims to have won over the Israelis, You and your Umma and Masters in Iran and Syria won, we all know that, but the Lebanese people lost and Lebanon lost, and do not wanna see your face anymore.
    Raja: Nassrallah: Enough!
    You are not my leader. You have just been handed your “epic battle” with the Israelis and you could not have wished for a better outcome. Of course, the price WE ALL had to pay for that “victory” of yours was astronomical. Your insistence on keeping your weapons and stubbornly tagging the Syrian-Iranian foreign policy line has brought our country to the brink of oblivion. ENOUGH, Nasrallah. ENOUGH.
    Beirut To The Beltway: The Decapitator’s Speech
    The most dangerous aspect of his speech, by far the most frightening of all, is his reference to Lebanese politicians who spoke out against him during the battle. He played on sectarian sensitivities highlighting the fact that most of the casualties and destruction were in Shia territories. He stressed that these politicians made a “mistake” by publicizing the internal debate in time of conflict, affecting the psychology of civilians being slaughtered and of the fighters.
    Desmond: The Battle Begins
    All those who were pro-Hezbollah remain so, perhaps even more now that it has promised to rehouse them and feed them. Those who were against Hezbollah are now being subjected to threats and intimidation to stop them trying to disarm the militia, to delay any attempt to rid the country of this "state within a state".
    Alarabiya readers' comments:


    (Rough Translation:
    First commentator: My Deepest Respects, Mr. Nassralla
    Second: Go to Hell Nassralla
    Alarabiya is a Pan Arab TV station)

    My personal view (The Beirut Spring)

    The point that bugs me most in Nassrallah’s speech is that he thinks that the natural place for a debate among the Lebanese is behind closed doors among leaders. This is very telling and it shows how much respect he has for democracy. “Let us the leaders discuss your destiny behind closed doors, you just shut up and listen,” seems to be his logic. The leaders in question would do well to ignore him and keep the debate public. We want to scrutinize every point and we want to ask questions. If Mr. Nassrallah doesn’t like it we can vote for someone else.

    (Comments are moderated. A free exchange of ideas is welcome, but some comments will be removed. please read policy here. If your comment does not immediately show, it's probably because I haven't read it yet or because it doesn't comply with the policy, please wait and don't re-post.)



    posted by Mustapha @ 8:49 PM 48 comments


    Time To Be Righteous





    The time is right for liberal forces in Lebanon to speak with force and belief.

    Before July 12, the debate between Hezbollah and the rest of the Lebanese had a classic pattern: When a Lebanese party reproaches Hezbollah for their weapons, they respond with a barrage of intimidation, bullying and self-righteousness. “How dare you question us?” “You sound exactly like the Israelis,” “Who are you to judge us?” sweetened by an assurance that the weapons are only for deterrence and will only be used against the “Zionist enemy,” followed by veiled (and not so veiled) threats: “we shall cut the limbs and heads of those who will try to disarm us and pull their souls out of their bodies”

    The problem was not Hezbollah’s responses per say. The problem was the fact that a lot of Lebanese (mainly the Sunnis) actually felt a hint of shame for criticizing a force that appeals so much to populist Arab public opinion. Especially if you watch Aljazeera and the way they insinuate that the Lebanese who don’t support Hezbollah serve the interests of Israel.

    At this junction, we need to be more righteous than Hezbollah, because our cause is, in fact, more just.

    We should cast aside the shame we feel every time we pressure Hezbollah. We should have an internalized belief that our cause is righter than theirs. Our dream of a prosperous, pluralist, democratic Lebanon is much worthier than their narrow-minded medieval dream of an Islamic resurrection; our culture of life trumps their culture of death and martyrdom. A mother bragging about her son being a doctor is better than a mother bragging that her children are all “martyrs”

    We should have an internal belief that modern wars are fought economically, by competing in production and innovation. A prosperous, plural Lebanon is a stronger foe than a militant, xenophobic Lebanon. Prosperity is about uniting families by preventing immigration. It’s about dignity. It’s about prestige and influence. A militant Lebanon will only create destitute, wretched and scattered citizens who feed off other people’s charities.

    When we argue with Hezbollah, we should be firm in our beliefs: We are right. They are wrong.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jets Till Death
    Now you ask why is it that israel is so adamant at refusing to withdraw from the shebaa and golan heights when the u.n officially recognzies both properties as syrian and acknoledges the situation as annexation??? Well could it be that israel has one of the worst water situations in the entire world and can hit critical lows within the next decade? The population and water output puts the incoming water supply at such a danger that the nation could have future troubles at supplying every household with enough water to pour a glass to drink. Now we all are well aware that no civilization let alone life form could survive without the world's motst necessary and beneficial resource known to man as water.
    With four outgoing water supplies from the water rich shebaa farms why would anybody consider israel go against its own interests and settle the dispute that would eventually lead to the total dismantle of hezbollah?? Like i said things are certainly more complicated than the what immediately meets the eye. Sadly this past months conflict will only serve as a pretext for what my come in the future months and years leading up to even a greater hatred of israel by more and more young generation arabs.
    Hmm . . . could it be because Syria isn't ready to make peace with Israel? And because Israel has no obligation to return the land except as a part of a comprehensive peace deal?

    Naw, that would just make too much sense.

    And, btw,

    settle the dispute that would eventually lead to the total dismantle of hezbollah
    Sorry, thanks for playing:

    "Hezbollah's spokesperson Hassan Ezzedin had this to say about the Farms: "If they go from Sheba'a, we will not stop fighting them. Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine...[Jews] can go back to Germany or wherever they came from.”[18]" (Quote from New Yorker, 10/14/2002)

    Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah: "If Jews all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide." (NY Times, May 23, 2004, p. 15, section 2, column 1.)

    Now go open another thread on this issue, since you haven't bothered to respond to me in any of the other threads you already opened (which is a sure sign that you 1) have no response and 2) are not interested in an honest discussion, just some hit-and-run propaganda)

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    You're right - a war is coming, don't exactly know when, but it IS coming, and God willing, the evil Muslims who have killed in His name will finally get their well-deserved punishment. God be praised!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726
    Lighten up Francis.
    Oh great.
    Another apologist for mass murder.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jets Till Death
    I understand the image that islam has in the current world, and quite frankly i cant do nothing to change that. It truly is a beatiful religion, appreciate it not for its beliefs or culture but atleast be wary of the many contributions this world has seen by the islamic empire. Its unfair to hold a religion hostage due to extremism but unfortunately the actions of few are undoubtedly felt harder than those of many.
    What I am most disturbed about is how I continually hear that a religion is being held hostage due to extremism. If that's the case then why don't we see this large majority of Islam stand up loudly against these extremists? The sad fact is that we DON'T! You go so far as to say that you frankly can't do anything about this. That's simply untrue. Maybe the world opinion of this peacful and wonderful religion would be changed if the world heard a lot more from Islamic leaders AGAINST the extremist actions. Unfortunately, we hear much more silence and/or support when it comes to those who are "holding their religion hostage."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jets Till Death

    i respect your opinion and im not angry at all, you show alot of class by extending an invitation such as this one rather than blowing me off and responding with b.s. the problem i see with your post though ham is that my religious conviction is as deep as yours. I love and have faith in my religion as you do with christianity. I dont have ill feelings to christians or jews, in the quran every person is referred to as "people of the book."

    I love and cherish jesus christ(prophet isa) as i do prophet muhammad(s.a.w). He is a prophet of islam as is moses, (prophet musa).
    Ah but one of those men never claimed to be a prophet JTD, or a man of GOD, or a messenger of GOD, or anything of the kind ... he claimed to be "GOD" ... and by NT accounts he produced a proponderance of evidence to support that claim, his miracles were multitude and mighty, including his own ressurection from the dead, as he fore-told

    That's the central question every man must answer for himself ... is Jesus who he claimed to be?

    I can't answer that question for you JTD, I can only answer it for myself, as every man must, but its vital to ackowledge that Jesus never claimed to be a prophet, he claimed to be GOD

    So he is either the Greatest liar in the history of the world, or he is who he claimed to be

    Who did he claim to be?

    Well its written all over the New Testament, he says it many times and in many ways, but he leaves no room for ambiguity on this question, he claims to be GOD

    Or as John Chapter 1 clearly states ...

    "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with GOD, and the word WAS GOD. He was in the beginning with GOD, and all things that were made were made through him, and nothing that was made was made without him. And the word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his Glory, the Glory as of the only begotten of the father full of Grace and truth."
    Last edited by Green Jets & Ham; 08-17-2006 at 03:27 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham
    Ah but one of those men never claimed to be a prophet JTD, or a man of GOD, or a messenger of GOD, or anything of the kind ... he claimed to be "GOD" ... and by NT accounts he produced a proponderance of evidence to support that claim, his miracles were multitude and mighty, including his own ressurection from the dead, as he fore-told

    That's the central question every man must answer for himself ... is Jesus who he claimed to be?

    I can't answer that question for you JTD, I can only answer it for myself, as every man must, but its vital to ackowledge that Jesus never claimed to be a prophet, he claimed to be GOD

    So he is either the Greatest liar in the history of the world, or he is who he claimed to be

    Who did he claim to be?

    Well its written all over the New Testament, he says it many times and in many ways, but he leaves no room for ambiguity on this question, he claims to be GOD

    Or as John Chapter 1 clearly states ...

    "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with GOD, and the word WAS GOD. He was in the beginning with GOD, and all things that were made were made through him, and nothing that was made was made without him. And the word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his Glory, the Glory as of the only begotten of the father full of Grace and truth."
    I love how people who are trying to push their religous view, and that is what your doing, cite their 'holy' books as indisputable evidence that their right.

    I for one would love to know why, and i'm being totally serious here no jokes or sarcasm or anything, you believe the information given out in the NT?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok14

    I love how people who are trying to push their religous view, and that is what your doing, cite their 'holy' books as indisputable evidence that their right.

    I for one would love to know why, and i'm being totally serious here no jokes or sarcasm or anything, you believe the information given out in the NT?
    I didn't say you have to believe it, did I?

    I said Jesus claimed to be GOD ... and he did ... so he was either the greatest liar in the history of the world, perpertrated the greatest hoax in the history of mankind, leading trillions of gullible souls to believe that which is not true, or he was who he claimed to be

    That is not an opinion, that is a fact ... you are free to choose one or the other, but he had to be one or the other

    As for the answer to that question, like I said, every man must answer that question for himself

    I've answered it for myself, and you are free to do likewise

    Now I was speaking to JTD, so if you would be kind enough to allow us to continue our discussion it would be much appreciated ... he is a man who takes this topic serious, so do I, so we are having a conversation of interest to us ... but we'll let you know when we want the athiest POV
    Last edited by Green Jets & Ham; 08-17-2006 at 04:05 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham
    I didn't say you have to believe it, did I?

    I said Jesus claimed to be GOD ... and he did ... so he was either the greatest liar in the history of the world, perpertrated the greatest hoax in the history of mankind, leading trillions of gullible souls to believe that which is not true, or he was who he claimed to be

    That statement is true ... you are free to choose one or the other, but he had to be one or the other
    And I never said you shouldn't believe it. What I wanted to know though, which you haven't answered, is why you believe the information provided in the NT? I seriously want to know to try understand the rational behind it all.

    As for the statement, if Jesus wasn't a hoax, then budda mohummad (sp?) Confucius, or countless others were. So it isn't so hard to believe that it is possible that Jesus was a liar or possibly fictional. Do I believe he was? I wouldn't rule out the possibility, but another way to put it is I believe in him less than what I believe in him.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham
    As for the answer to that question, like I said, every man must answer that question for himself

    I've answered it for myself, and you are free to do likewise

    Now I was speaking to JTD, so if you would be kind enough to allow us to continue our discussion it would be much appreciated ... he is a man who takes this topic serious, so do I, so we are having a conversation of interest to us ... but we'll let you know when we want the athiest POV
    As I said before, I would like to know how or why you made that decision, because i'm interested in the topic, i'm not deriding you or your religion.

    Oh and thanks for assuming i'm athiest because i'm not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok14

    And I never said you shouldn't believe it. What I wanted to know though, which you haven't answered, is why you believe the information provided in the NT? I seriously want to know to try understand the rational behind it all.
    You're assuming I owe you an explanation, which I don't

    I don't have to justify my faith to you, anymore than you have to justify your faith {or lack thereof} too me

    But here's the short answer ... I read the NT account of Jesus and I believe it, I believe he was who he claimed to be ... as I study the life of a man who claimed to be the Christ, I find the account of his life, in accordance with OT prophecy of his coming, entirely consistant with that claim ... if you don't, you're entitled to that opinion

    The only statement of fact I offered reads as follows ... Jesus was who he claimed to be, or Jesus was a fraud

    Whichever of the two you decide is true, you don't need to justify it too me
    Last edited by Green Jets & Ham; 08-17-2006 at 04:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok14

    I love how people who are trying to push their religous view, and that is what your doing, cite their 'holy' books as indisputable evidence that their right.
    BTW, this is how you open the conversation and then you have the audacity to claim that you are not deriding religion, but are only interested in this topic ... and I'm supposed to buy that?

    I know when someone is interested in the topic of religion, as is JTD, and I know when someone is itching for a fight ... the tone is obvious ... and right now I'm just not in the mood for an argument ... I'm having a peaceful conversation with JTD ... maybe some other time, rag, but today I'm not in the mood ... I'm just not in that frame of mind ... I'm in a pretty good place right now, and I'd like to keep it that way

    PS. I never used the words "indisputable evidence" ... those are your words ... I've often said, ON THIS BOARD, that there is no such thing as indisputable evidence where it pertains to faith ... the very word, faith, conotates a belief that transcends material evidence ... its a matter of the heart

    Now I believe that the account of Jesus's life is ripe with a proponderance of evidence to support his claims, but if you dispute that account then of course the account itself is meaningless ... if that's where you are, which seems to be the case?, you are entitled to that opinion

    Now you said you wanted a serious answer so I just gave you one ... I hope you can take it in the spirit it was offered, which was not a spirit of strife
    Last edited by Green Jets & Ham; 08-17-2006 at 04:46 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham
    BTW, this is how you open the conversation and then you have the audacity to claim that you are not deriding religion, but are only interested in this topic ... and I'm supposed to buy that?

    I know when someone is interested in the topic of religion, as is JTD, and I know when someone is itching for a fight ... the tone is obvious ... and right now I'm just not in the mood for an argument ... I'm having a peaceful conversation with JTD ... maybe some other time, rag, but today I'm not in the mood ... I'm just not in that frame of mind ... I'm in a pretty good place right now, and I'd like to keep it that way

    PS. I never used the words "indisputable evidence" ... those are your words ... I've often said, ON THIS BOARD, that there is no such thing as indisputable evidence where it pertains to faith ... the very word, faith, conotates a belief that transcends material evidence ... its a matter of the heart

    Now you said you wanted a serious answer so I just gave you one ... I hope you can take it in the spirit it was offered, which was not a spirit of strife
    True that statement is one of frustration towards certain types of people who present their views in that way. As for religion I am intersted in the topic and even more so in why or how people believe in what they believe.

    So accept my apoligies if I did come across a little hostile (which I admitt I did), i'm not looking for a fight but rather a discussion. And thank you for the serious answer.

    As for that statement deriding religion, its not, its deriding the way that people put forward their case for their religious beliefs above others, nothing else.

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