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Thread: Can we agree on this

  1. #1

    Can we agree on this

    We have ultra conservatives who see nothing wrong with this country and we have ultra liberals who see nothing right with this country. I think I am in the middle somewhere. There are many things right, our educational system, our medical system(needs improvement), our government. The things I see wrong are the people who think we can hide our heads in the sand and pretend we have no enemies when in fact we have many. Iran is a nuclear bomb just waiting to explode, N. Korea headed by a lunatic and his million man army(half starving at that). BTW Israel is just an excuse for the ragheads
    they could really careless about the Palestinians probably less than many of us do!

  2. #2
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    I agree with this. There are degrees of moderation too and I believe the population leans more right than they do left.

    Hollywood and the media tries to portray otherwise, but we'll see what happens when the real people speak in November. If you believe everything you hear, see or read in the news, this should be a landslide toward the left.

    I don't think it will.

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan]We have ultra conservatives who see nothing wrong with this country and we have ultra liberals who see nothing right with this country. I think I am in the middle somewhere. There are many things right, our educational system, our medical system(needs improvement), our government. The things I see wrong are the people who think we can hide our heads in the sand and pretend we have no enemies when in fact we have many. Iran is a nuclear bomb just waiting to explode, N. Korea headed by a lunatic and his million man army(half starving at that). BTW Israel is just an excuse for the ragheads
    they could really careless about the Palestinians probably less than many of us do![/QUOTE]


    Funny... I am conservative and I think there is NOTHING right with the Educational System, the medical system or the Government at this point.

    Education in the US is [U]POOR[/U], *partly* if not *mostly* due to tenure and the strong NEA Unions, Medical Costs and the Cost of Insurance is far too high - the quality of the health care when you have it is unsurpassed in my opinion though, and the Gov't is Fractured and spends like there is no tomorrow and I believe has lost it's way when it comes to actually honoring or even defending the wishes of an officials constituants (all levels).

    Much of the rest I agree with though.

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=JetFanTransplant] I think there is NOTHING right with the Educational System, the medical system or the Government at this point.

    Education in the US is [U]POOR[/U], *partly* if not *mostly* due to tenure and the strong NEA Unions, Medical Costs and the Cost of Insurance is far too high - the quality of the health care when you have it is unsurpassed in my opinion though, and the Gov't is Fractured and spends like there is no tomorrow and I believe has lost it's way when it comes to actually honoring or even defending the wishes of an officials constituants (all levels).

    [/QUOTE]


    hear hear!! :applause: :applause:

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=JetFanTransplant]Funny... I am conservative and I think there is NOTHING right with the Educational System, the medical system or the Government at this point.

    Education in the US is [U]POOR[/U], *partly* if not *mostly* due to tenure and the strong NEA Unions, Medical Costs and the Cost of Insurance is far too high - the quality of the health care when you have it is unsurpassed in my opinion though, and the Gov't is Fractured and spends like there is no tomorrow and I believe has lost it's way when it comes to actually honoring or even defending the wishes of an officials constituants (all levels).

    Much of the rest I agree with though.[/QUOTE]

    Ah - a topic near to my heart:) I am a conservative, Christian, teacher, coach and fed up taxpayer .......... I think I have a unique and at least somewhat impartial perspective. There are lots of things busted in education - let's start near, but not at the top.

    One of the main things wrong with education involves the concept of self esteem. Somehow the powers that be (mostly liberal leaning college professors) have sold parents and administrators a bill of goods. Somehow, they have come to think that just by telling a kid they are good or succesful, the kid will believe it. They will not. By the time the kid gets to middle school, the know full well when they are bad at something. Education has lost sight of the fact that sustainable self esteem only comes from success! Instead of dog and pony shows for the community and constant warm fuzzies and group hugs, schools need to get kids to suceed. That is done by toughening standards, not lowering them. Schools routinely lower the requirements to pass courses or get an A just so they do not look bad. The tail is wagging the dog. Don't get me wrong........ I'm not suggesting we crush kids egos and live only for the win, but there has to be a balance between concern for feelings and demanding performance. Right now, kumbaya is in and performance is out.

    Next point: our legal system, lawsuits and right and wrong. If there is one word that rules education it is lawsuit. Educational leaders have been reared by liberal colleges that do not accept an absolute right and wrong in the world. They believe that right is what you perceive it to be (a ridiculous notion.) This applies most to administrators. If a future felon is in school and absolutely stifling education in the classes he is in so that others can't learn, most schools do little or nothing about it. Fearing a lawsuit, they placate the parasite rather than rid themselves of him or her. Naturally, this is in part attributable to the courts. If a school finally gets a chance to petition the authorities for a kid to be removed, most often judges put them back in the schools, ostensibly because the judges do not want them on the street.

    Tenure is a touchy issue. Do you know what it says? Tenure says that no one can be fired without a form of due process. Poor teachers can still be fired. The problem is that most districts can't afford the 100,000 dollar plus legal bills necessary to remove a lousy teacher. I wish it was somewhat easier to remove the bad ones, but not easy. The reason I say that is because the best teachers lead. In leading, they often need to combat cowardly adminstrators - ones who feel very insecure. These administrators will stab you in the back the first chance they get. I'll give you a great example:

    i have coached school baseball for a very long time. Until recently, I coached 9th grade ball with my buddy, who coached the 7th and 8th grade team. We would work part of practice together and part alone. We had a long history of success, despite being a tiny school that played huge schoold like Sachem, Longwood. etc. I tried very hard to keep the 9th grade team for 9th grade boys only. Every once in a while, a special talent would come along, but most years the team was 9 only. As part of our program, my buddy and I had invested in multiple pitching machines and worked out twice a week in the offseason. Our efforts doomed us, though.

    Eventually, we started to churn out some very, very good players who by 9th grade were good enough to be solid plus JV kids. One year, the varsity coach (our district is huge, but my middle school (1 of 3) is small - about 70 9th grade boys only) decided he wanted to pull up 2 of our players. I went to the AD before the season and explkained that we only had 11 9th grade boys that played baseball in the building. If we lost the two kids to JV, I thought we should fold the team, move the remaining "good" players to JV (there were 3 others) and let the remaining players work out like intramurals. I explained that we would have trouble keeping 3 or 4 of the players on the team because of grades and that when the interim reports hit, we would probably lose 3 or 4 kids and that would force the team to fold.

    The AD responded by asking if I thought the two kids the varsity coach wanted moved up were good enough to move up. I said yes. His exact words were, "If a kid is good enough to go up, I have no problem with him going up. But I will never allow kids to move up a level just to fill roster spots."

    Fast forward to when the interim reports hit and we did not have the two players. At 9, we lost 4 kids to grades. I went to see the AD and told him we needed to cancel the season. He said why. I said we are down to 5 players. He said, "Pull up some players from the 7/8 team." I said no way, they had played 5 games and lost by a combined score of about 55 to 5. I told him by his own standard, the kids were only going to be promoted to fill roster spots and I wouldn't hurt the kids. He said, I'm your boss and I'm telling you to do it." I said hurt a kid's baseball future over this. Because he needed me to coach a wrestling team, he didn't dare to fire me and the team folded. After I helped him with the wrestling team, he fired me. Did it matter that we had a long history of success? That this was right for the kids? That they should not suffer because of our predicament? Did it matte that we were so committed to uor program that we bought $1800 worth of pitching machines with our own money? Of course not. What mattered was that I chose protecting vulnerable kids over protecting a grown man's reputation.

    In my experience, 80% or more of the administrators would do like this AD. The same sort of things happen in the classroom. What is the tenure answer? I don't know, but somehow solid teachers need some form of protection.......... for the most part, great teachers threaten the sensitive egos of many administrators. It is a volatile mix that, if left in the hands of administration, would strangle education. Personally, I think a big part of fixing the problem lies in more demading standards for awarding tenure. Great young teachers should get it - not just competent ones........ they are a dime a dozen in most disciplines.

    Taxes annoy me to no end. In 10 years when I retire, I will have to uproot my life and leave Long Island. I pay about $700 a month in property taxes now, let alone in a decade! And my house is a very standard three bedrm colonial. But the thing of it is that, after working for 22 years for my district and coachiong two teams and being very involved with exrtacurriculars and some private tutoring and teaching summer school, I pay the bills and not a whole lot more. I don;t have any significant cc debt and only buy a new car every 5 years. I don;t take vacations and had to sell my boat because I could not afford to use it. So while I know the taxes are overbearing, I'm not swimming in it. When the public sees well off teachers, it is usually either a teaching couple or the wife of a primary bread winner. Not only that, but cops, LIPA lineman and many other trades start at more than a teacher starts............. can a tyeacher to be really afford to invest 75K or more in college only to get paid about 25K? I think the only possible solution to this lies in reversing the corruption caused my state gov't. Originally, Lotto was intended to subsidize education across the state, but the greedy pols couldn't keep their hands off it. Put the Lotto $$ into education and taxes will diminish.

    Next on the list of educational cancers is academia. In their arrogance, they perceive themselves to be the height of universal evolution. They design curriculum in order for everyone to be like them. No longer do school attempt to train up tradesmen and laborers; in fact, in a suffocatong sense, it is anti-self esteem. Some kids are not meant to sit still in a seat for 7 hours adily and work (primarily) with their minds. Instead, they want to be up and moving around and doing things - future carpenters, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, etc. Today, schools make kids who would escel at such a future fail because they are not gifted toward the only choiue in schools today - an academically orieted future. Shop is no more in most schools and programs to teach trades are on the extinction watch list. How academia can do this is beyond me............ not only is the kid frustratted, but so is the rest of the school. Kids who are happy working with their hands become education disruptors. All of the countries that you see leading the SAT race do so because they have many kids leave public education after 8th grade if they show neither the promise nor the potential for academic strength in the future. I was the first in my family to go to college - it is no sin or scarlet letter to work with your hands - yet those who write the curriculums for the states say it is not good enough.

    Finally, the number one problem with schools today is that they have neither accountability nor responsibility. Incompetent teachers are not held accountable, nor are irresponsible ones. But the problem is even deeper. Administrators get so worked up about teaching the "curriculum" that they do not, either by their actions or ejudications, teach responsibility. What these super intelligent people fail to comprehened is the very simple idea that if you can get a kid to be responsible, success will follow. Responsibility is rarely taught these days - and curriculum suffers.

    Of there is one other thing that is absolutely killing education - the destruction of the traditional, one - income family. No longer is one parent home at most times to oversee the homework, help out with projects, etc. Now many kids are raised by a single aprent who expends nearly all of their energy trying to pay the bills that little energy is left for school work. Kids used to have a parent at home after school to supervise, buyt not much any more..... the whole thing is a mess. If homes today operated much as they did in say, 1960, kids would be much more apt to succeed. Every year, I ask mny students how often the folks ask about school. Nearly all honors kids get asked everyday. regular classes get asked frequently and remedial classes are hardly ever asked......

    Sorry this was so long winded.

  6. #6
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    What's up JC long time no post. I see you still like the short answers. A huge problem with kids education is their complete lack of discipline. Kids do what ever they want and don't suffer any consequences. They have no fear of adults like we did when we were kids. In school there should be no IPod, cameras, phones, cd players, mp3 players, laptops our any other unnecessary electronic device. They should have a dress code and heavy disciplining but not just kicking a kid out of school, the only time a kid should be kick out of school is if he is going to jail for what he did other wise it is our jobs to watch and teach them.

  7. #7
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    THE EDUCATION SYSTEM?

    Sorry, perhaps I'm hearing the wrong information, but if its like ours in Canada (which I'm sure its not far off) we are churning out more and more kids that can't read, write or do basic mathematics after HIGH SCHOOL!

    While statistically we (North America not including Mexico) ranks low on world levels of illiteracy, there is no excuse for this continent to have as high an illiteracy rate as it does...

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