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Thread: joe torre question......

  1. #1

    joe torre question......

    what is the point of getting rid of this guy and bringing in panella unless panella is going to bring in 25 guys that will listen to him..........this team is full of veterans that are going to tell him to take a flying **** when he gets in their face and not even flinch.

    i think this is another george move that makes no baseball sence. Not to mention that i think Joe Torre got alot out of his team this year considering the pitching staff stinking it up and the injuries to hitters.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by emslave
    what is the point of getting rid of this guy and bringing in panella unless panella is going to bring in 25 guys that will listen to him..........this team is full of veterans that are going to tell him to take a flying **** when he gets in their face and not even flinch.

    i think this is another george move that makes no baseball sence. Not to mention that i think Joe Torre got alot out of his team this year considering the pitching staff stinking it up and the injuries to hitters.
    pinella may have done jack sh*t in tampa, but you shouldnt act like he's not going to have an impact on the yankee clubhouse if you hire him...he still knows how to manage to win, and maybe you guys need someone to get in your players faces when htey dick up rather than playing footsie around the issue...

    i dont think you should get rid of torre, but if you are, the only guy to hire is pinella...

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadringer
    pinella may have done jack sh*t in tampa, but you shouldnt act like he's not going to have an impact on the yankee clubhouse if you hire him...he still knows how to manage to win, and maybe you guys need someone to get in your players faces when htey dick up rather than playing footsie around the issue...

    i dont think you should get rid of torre, but if you are, the only guy to hire is pinella...
    Actually he did pretty good in Tampa for what he had.. They won more with him there.

  4. #4
    emslave -

    Say what you will about A-Rod (hey, I'm not stopping anyone), but the Yankees were 100% not ready for Game 3 and that's on Torre. Kenny Rogers was on and the patient Yankee bats did nothing but let Kenny Rogers dictate the pace.

    Game 4 found the Yankees, to a man, attacking at the plate - almost netting Bonderman a no-hitter in the process. As far as this series goes, Joe's legacy was to make A-Rod bat #8. Classless, too little and too late. Torre declined to even leave his penchant for consistency intact - demote A-Rod for what, to show him up? In the last game of the season?

    The fact is Showalter built the team that won 4 WS and, IMO as outlined by McCarver's on the spot and uncannily accurate commentary of broken bats vs. Rivera and how the Yankee infield was unprepared for it (and the title unfolded right there), Torre personally blew the Yankee bid for the 5th. Everything since has been more and more talent for more and more money and steeper shortcomings in the postseason.

    There is no Stottlemyer to throw underneath the bus. Torre had/has to go.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by sackdance
    emslave -

    Say what you will about A-Rod (hey, I'm not stopping anyone), but the Yankees were 100% not ready for Game 3 and that's on Torre. Kenny Rogers was on and the patient Yankee bats did nothing but let Kenny Rogers dictate the pace.

    Game 4 found the Yankees, to a man, attacking at the plate - almost netting Bonderman a no-hitter in the process. As far as this series goes, Joe's legacy was to make A-Rod bat #8. Classless, too little and too late. Torre declined to even leave his penchant for consistency intact - demote A-Rod for what, to show him up? In the last game of the season?

    The fact is Showalter built the team that won 4 WS and, IMO as outlined by McCarver's on the spot and uncannily accurate commentary of broken bats vs. Rivera and how the Yankee infield was unprepared for it (and the title unfolded right there), Torre personally blew the Yankee bid for the 5th. Everything since has been more and more talent for more and more money and steeper shortcomings in the postseason.

    There is no Stottlemyer to throw underneath the bus. Torre had/has to go.
    The yankees are not a minor league team i am pretty sure Torre didnt tell the team to swing away at the first pitch when they should have been patient. I think Torre did a good job with what he had....as far as the yankees winning they werent winning the title anyhow.......the yankees starting rotation has been very bad outside of wang and the pen wasnt anything special either. Plus Joe had Matsui and Scheff out the whole year.

    i just dont see it.........i can just imagine Panella comming in here running his mouth and being told to go **** himself by the first guy he tries to verbaly abuse.

  6. #6
    If you are going to give Torre credit for the 4 championships and all the wins, shouldn't he also deserve some blame for the losses and the choke jobs? I think that's more than fair...

    Fact is, fair or unfair, this team does not respond to Joe in the postseason. Is that Joe's fault? I don't think so, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make a change.

    Joe, as a manager, has some huge positives and also some negatives. His positives is he is a great out-of-game manager and the players really like and respect him. He handles the NY media very well and also handles Steinbrenner very well. His negatives are that he is a terrible in-game manager and he has no idea how to use a bullpen. If the team is not responding to him, he becomes pretty much useless.

    I want to blowup the team, but since we can only do so much with trading/not re-signing players, Joe must go.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by emslave
    The yankees are not a minor league team i am pretty sure Torre didnt tell the team to swing away at the first pitch when they should have been patient. I think Torre did a good job with what he had....as far as the yankees winning they werent winning the title anyhow.......the yankees starting rotation has been very bad outside of wang and the pen wasnt anything special either. Plus Joe had Matsui and Scheff out the whole year.

    i just dont see it.........i can just imagine Panella comming in here running his mouth and being told to go **** himself by the first guy he tries to verbaly abuse.
    I just don't understand what Torre has done to stay... I asked before and I'll ask again. If Torre deserves credit for the wins, why does he not get at least some of the blame for the losses? It seems that under your reasoning, Torre should never be blamed for anything and should just stay here forever... It doesn't work like that.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    I just don't understand what Torre has done to stay... I asked before and I'll ask again. If Torre deserves credit for the wins, why does he not get at least some of the blame for the losses? It seems that under your reasoning, Torre should never be blamed for anything and should just stay here forever... It doesn't work like that.
    its not that i think he doesnt deserve blame i just dont think he is the problem.....fact is you have big time paychecks with small time performers on your team.....half of which are always hurt or old.

    torre wasnt the problem....but i guess when **** hits the fan heads must roll and torre already cheat the ripper a few times before.

  9. #9
    Joe Torre had a great run with the Yankees. 11 years, 4 World Championships and playoffs every season. But there does come a time, no matter how successful a manager or coach may be, when their ability to lead runs it's course, and Torre may have reached that point.

    As far as a replacement I was hoping for Girardi if a change was going to be made. However, it appears that Lou Piniella will now be the next manager of the Yankees. This may add a needed spark to the team. However, other changes especially pitching, both starting and relieving, need an overhaul.
    Last edited by JetsFanatic; 10-08-2006 at 09:43 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by emslave
    its not that i think he doesnt deserve blame i just dont think he is the problem.....fact is you have big time paychecks with small time performers on your team.....half of which are always hurt or old.

    torre wasnt the problem....but i guess when **** hits the fan heads must roll and torre already cheat the ripper a few times before.
    His poor in-game managing is a huge problem. And, if the team is not responding to him, then he shoudln't be managing this team.

    Nothing you can do about most of the players, and it is Joe's job to have them perform. And the ones that you can get rid of, I want gone too.

    Torre has been the problem in the past. Pitching Jeff Weaver instead of Mariano Rivera against the Marlins in 2003, forgetting (or just idiotically not) to pinch run for Jorge in 2004 in extra innings with Wakefield on the mound and Varitek catching him... These are fireable offenses.

  11. #11
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...eax/index.html

    As far as Torre's strategies, one word, yeesh. Torre's decision to summon vaunted closer Mariano Rivera for two innings in an 11-5 game in Anaheim less than 24 hours after declaring Rivera would be limited to one because of an ailing arm was unfathomable. By playoff time, Rivera really was limited to one inning, not that it mattered since Detroit took him out of the series after Game 1.

    His use of the bullpen all year was nothing short of abominable. He showed he thought little of Ron Villone early, then when Villone pitched brilliantly for two months, suddenly Torre couldn't get enough of Villone, who began being used just as poor Scott Proctor and Kyle Farnsworth were (that is, whenever). Then eventually and predictably, Villone wore out. Torre's habit to get up relievers, then not use them, added to the wear.



    Finally someone in the media actually states how crappy of a manager Joe is...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...eax/index.html

    As far as Torre's strategies, one word, yeesh. Torre's decision to summon vaunted closer Mariano Rivera for two innings in an 11-5 game in Anaheim less than 24 hours after declaring Rivera would be limited to one because of an ailing arm was unfathomable. By playoff time, Rivera really was limited to one inning, not that it mattered since Detroit took him out of the series after Game 1.

    His use of the bullpen all year was nothing short of abominable. He showed he thought little of Ron Villone early, then when Villone pitched brilliantly for two months, suddenly Torre couldn't get enough of Villone, who began being used just as poor Scott Proctor and Kyle Farnsworth were (that is, whenever). Then eventually and predictably, Villone wore out. Torre's habit to get up relievers, then not use them, added to the wear.



    Finally someone in the media actually states how crappy of a manager Joe is...

    Stuff like that is always overrated JWF...


    These Yankee teams were very similar to the Braves teams. They just weren't built for the postseason...

    The pitchers were for the most part solid guys who can keep you in the game , and let the offense win it.. Problem is that doesn't work in the playoffs....


    Power arms my friend...

    That is what ALWAYS seems to get it done in the post season...

    Dont ask me why....

    That's just the trend...

    Power arms=postseason success

  13. #13
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    I will be worried if they do get rid of torre- 4 WS titles, nine straight division titles, and 6 trips to the World Series in 11 years. It would be hard to say goodbye.

    who knows maybe this is what that team needs

    either way I hope they get some pitching and the outcome is different next year. Man, I am getting tired of saying that!

    if the Mets bring a WS title back to NY it will ease the pain a lil but I will grieve until spring training.

    And the JETS lost this weekend too. Talk about kicking a guy when he is down

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