Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Another Question For Liberals

  1. #1

    Another Question For Liberals

    I keep hearing over and over again from leftists entertainers (i.e. Radio Hosts and TV folks Bill Maher) that George Bush is "taking away our freedoms".

    Can you tell me which freedoms of ours he has taken away? Please, be specific and site the basis for the freedom, if you will.

    And of course, please tell us how Liberal leadership would handle the issue differently.

  2. #2
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    22,805
    Habeas Corpus

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan]Habeas Corpus[/QUOTE]

    Really? You have lost YOUR right to Habeus Corpus due to President Bush alone?

    [QUOTE=Wikipedia]On 29 September 2006, the U.S. [B][U]House and Senate[/U][/B] approved the Military Commissions Act of 2006, a bill which would [B][U]suspend habeas corpus for any alien (noncitizen)[/U][/B] determined to be an "unlawful enemy combatant engaged in hostilities or having supported hostilities against the United States"[2][3] by a vote of 65-34. (This was the result on the bill to approve the military trials for detainees; an amendment to remove the suspension of habeas corpus failed 48-51.[4]) President Bush signed the Military Commissons Act of 2006 into law on October 17, 2006.....

    ....It has been pointed out that the government can thus detain any [B][U]noncitizen[/U][/B] for any length of time, without habeas or any other appeal, by delaying the CSRT hearing indefinitely.[/QUOTE]

    It appears to me that Congress/the House took this "right" away from captured enemy combatants. And based on this source, and others I have read in the past, my understanding is that this does NOT apply to America Citizens. Hence, your right to Habeus Corpus has not been removed by President Bush.

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=Warfish]Really? You have lost YOUR right to Habeus Corpus due to President Bush alone?[/QUOTE]
    Lol. I think PlumberKhan is concerned about the rights of suspected terrorists.

  5. #5
    Warfish if you are truly interesting here is a very long study by the Cato Institute a very Conservative think thank. It's long but worthwile if you are really interested in the topic.

    [URL=http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/powersurge_healy_lynch.pdf]http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/powersurge_healy_lynch.pdf[/URL]

  6. #6
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    2,393
    I know none of the liberals here are in any position to make policy, just french fries, but threads like this are an example of how dangerous it is to have libs in a position of power in our government.

    With big media's help, their successful propaganda campaign is going to be the death of us all.

  7. #7
    TMahoney
    Guest
    [QUOTE=Warfish]I keep hearing over and over again from leftists entertainers (i.e. Radio Hosts and TV folks Bill Maher) that George Bush is "taking away our freedoms".

    Can you tell me which freedoms of ours he has taken away? Please, be specific and site the basis for the freedom, if you will.

    And of course, please tell us how Liberal leadership would handle the issue differently.[/QUOTE]


    Its not that the Bush Administration and the GOP are taking away freedoms but rather their general attitude towards the public that screams "We're not telling you anything until we're obligated to do so".

    And with the Iraq war there are two sets of Bush opposers:

    The small but loud minority (that gets all the air time on conservative talk radio and TV) who believe the Bush Administration lied about both the WMD's and Saddams link to Al Qaeda.

    The vast majority of people who believe the Bush Administration f*cked up and started a war on questionable at best intelligence and has since not been held culpable for Iraq but rather shifts the blame around in order to keep winning elections.

    Warfish; you have been very conservative minded recently. I know you're an independent as am I, but recently, I'm so fed up with the current state of affairs I want to give the other side a shot to see what they can do.

    Whats your reason for leaning to the right thesedays?

  8. #8
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,281
    Freedom to live outside the umbrella of Conservative Christians?

    The freedom to travel outside of the country and not be hated because I am an American?

    The freedom for scientists to explore controversial measures that could lead to significant breakthroughs?

    The freedom of having my Republican vote go towards things such as fiscal responsibility, states' rights and small goverment?

    Those are just a couple of "freedoms" that GWB and his cronies have taken away from me. I'm sure I'll be attacked by many people here, but as a former Republican, those are just a few of the things I feel as though I've lost over the last 6 years.

  9. #9
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    22,805
    [QUOTE=Warfish]Really? You have lost YOUR right to Habeus Corpus due to President Bush alone?



    It appears to me that Congress/the House took this "right" away from captured enemy combatants. And based on this source, and others I have read in the past, my understanding is that this does NOT apply to America Citizens. Hence, your right to Habeus Corpus has not been removed by President Bush.[/QUOTE]


    Hey Warfish...thanks for replying w/o being a douchebag :D If it applies to only aliens, well then...quite frankly...f*ck 'em.

  10. #10
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    LI
    Posts
    20,437
    Gay marriage. :D

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=CarlSpackler]Warfish; you have been very conservative minded recently. I know you're an independent as am I, but recently, I'm so fed up with the current state of affairs I want to give the other side a shot to see what they can do.

    Whats your reason for leaning to the right thesedays?[/QUOTE]

    A fair question, one I likely should have expanded on already.....

    As I get older, my viewpoints on many issues have leaned over towards the conservative end. I am much less idealsitic (I once though Communism was a great concept.....such sillyness of youth) and much less "utopian". Maybe it's because I've lived a little and seen what the world is REALLY all about a bit more than when I was a sheltered 18 year old. When it comes to protecting me, and mine, and my way of life.....well, I am much less compassionate than I used to be re: our enemies in this world, and what THEY might be willing to do.

    Now....don;t get me wrong, on many issues, especially SOCIAL issues, I am still pretty much a flaming leftist libertarian. Gay Marriage? Hell yea it should be legal, the Govt should have no moral say in denying civil contract rights between two adult people. LEt those doing the contract call it whatever they like, but the GOVT should only be in the business of notorizing that a legal civil agreement has been made. Beyond that, it's only the business of the two people in the contract.

    Drugs? I'm 100% for Pot legalization, and a sea-change in how even hard drugs are handled (treatment only for personal posession crimes).

    Freedom? Well, this one is tougher.....I used to be a huge Libertarian (freedom above all else), and still am to some degree. But I also am willing to temporarily give up some very minor "freedoms" if it makes me and mine safer. I believe Govt. can and should be MADE to give those freedoms back. I do not believe a people with a strong enough will could be forced to lose their freedoms.

    Religion? Hate it, and see through it for what it is, a tool of manipulation for simple minded people.

    I don't know.....I tend to play alot of devil advocate too. I did it vs. the right for a long while, and I still do sometimes. I LOVE a good solid debate. But in truth, I AM a "Conservative Libertarian" these days for the most part. We could go down issue by issue, and IO think you'd find me rather conservative of size of Govt., social welfare programs, security, economics, and others, but leftist is social issues, morallity (I fover legalized prostituions.....I mean come on, if it IS "her body her choice", how can we say it's okay to be a cop/fireman/stuntman and rick your life with every second, and then turn around and say you can't **** for a living? Talk about sillyness) and a number of other issues.

    So I am still an Independant. Just a right-leaning one these days on the topics covered here most often as of late (the War, Taxes) with one exception(Religion).

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan]Hey Warfish...thanks for replying w/o being a douchebag :D If it applies to only aliens, well then...quite frankly...f*ck 'em.[/QUOTE]

    I try bro. I know I am a man of "Strong opinion" to say the least (others would say horrably flamingly self-important and arrogant), but I still truly believe we are all brother-in-the-Jets and friends here.....yes, even in here. While there are a few posters who can still "get under my skin", these is darn few who I truly dislike. Hell, I even like Sack, and I fight with him almost daily, lol.

    While I can get as angry and passionate in here as anyone, I try to be fair, and try not to attack someone (other than Sack) personally. I'd like to think, right or wrong, that I could and would watch a game and drink a beer with ANY poster in this forum, or the general one. Even the ones I disagree with most often and passionately.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us