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Thread: Question: Why Does God Require Us To "Believe In Him" Rather Than Worship Him ?

  1. #1

    Question: Why Does God Require Us To "Believe In Him" Rather Than Worship Him ?

    I am A Catholic. I have always thought of myself as one that believed in God, tried to live a good life. But with the death of my wife's Mom who was Hindu I guess the question has come to mind.

    Two things:

    1) Why does God play hide and seek? Why are we required to "Believe In Him" and just not simply promise to be obedient?

    Where am I going? Why not simply show yourself?
    Is God a creation that has been used to control the masses?

    2) I as a Catholic married to a Hindu woman am faced with the question of religion quite often.

    As catholics we are taught to believe that if we dont believe in our god and that Jesus was the savior of humanity and will come again to judge the living and the dead...

    THAT WE WILL BE ETERNALLY DAMNED.

    Question: With 6 Billion People Now in the World and Only 1 Billion (? Not sure on the Number) Christians are we to believe that God would damn at least 5 Billion of us to hell after creating us in his own image?

    On a more personal level, my mother in law was a rare person in that she NEVER, NOT EVEN ONCE had a bad word to say about anyone, lived her life simply (1 BR Flat in The Bronx), Always had a smile for all. Had 300 People at her funeral of all races.

    She was Hindu- Should I believe that she is now on her way to hell because she didnt believe as I do?

    Help! Answers Folks! Criticisms??? :huh:

  2. #2
    Joined this month and 5 posts in you're creeping around the Political Forum asking What's God all about, huh? Let's just say you will be watched carefully.

    Anyway, I believe God is never lost and only people are. It's on me to find Him. I also believe in God for my own good and not to appease an angry deity. Part of being Catholic (and other religions, I think) is to engage in a covenant with God. That means I don't worship the priest on the altar, but God. Confession clears my conscience (Catholics: I cannot understate how wonderful confession is - I went from 8th grade to my early 30's without going once - I was saying something before about people being lost...) having faith that the ideals taught to me will lead me to do the next right thing and put purpose in my life. Kneel in the morning and say a few prayers and meditate every once in awhile, does the person good. And I go to Mass weekly, nice and early, too. Quite relaxing.

    My other choice is to be a self-indulgent douchebag partying all night, sleeping all day.

    I've lived both ways and one is far more rewarding and productive than the other.

    Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to levitate to Blimpies and pick up a sandwich...

  3. #3
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    JetsYanks, although it may sound unpopular. You either belong to Christ or you don't belong to Christ. NOBODY makes it to heaven because they were a nice person. The bible clearly ststes that over and over and unless you have read the bible you wouldn't know that.

    If you ask the average person "In your personal opinion what do you think it takes for a person to get to Heaven?", 95% of the time you will hear a response like be honest, be a good person, help people out, go to church, do the Sacraments, etc. Now those are great characteristics but they have no eternal value. Instead of writing for 3 hours here the best thing would be to click on this link. [url]http://www.carm.org/objections.htm[/url] Don't listen to the "opinions" of people. Stick with the Word of God, the bible. Most people refuse to listen to the bible because it is offensive to them (because they are being condemned). The are more concerned in making up a God that doesn't exist to make themselves feel comfortable. But on the day of Judgement when they stand before God when they die they are going to be in for some shock.

    You worry about where your mother in law might be right now and I can understand that totally. Don't gamble with the eternal destination of you or your wife. Eternity is a long time to be wrong.

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=sackdance99] Now those are great characteristics but they have no eternal value. ... [B]Don't listen to the "opinions" of people[/B] ... are more concerned in making up a God that doesn't exist to make themselves feel comfortable... But on the day of Judgement when they stand before God when they die they are going to be in for some shock.

    ... Eternity is a long time to be wrong.[/QUOTE]
    And your opinions are not opinions but facts, chief? Some basic study in persuasive writing might up your Bible sales.

  5. #5
    Avoid Religion, it is a simple-minded manipulative creation of MAN. It is the worlds greatest evil, used to control simple people via fear since the first men need to control his fellows. Ignore the strident know-it-alls-with-no-logic , especially the type like Sackdance here. I'd pay good money to see the look on his face the day after he finally buys the farm......if there was an afterlife, of course. Which there isn't.

    Religion is a joke. A way to control people. And a good one....it's worked for thousands of years so far, and mankind seems as simple minded as ever on the subject even to this day.

    Suck Folly, such Folly. :rolleyes:

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=Warfish]Avoid Religion, it is a simple-minded manipulative creation of MAN. It is the worlds greatest evil, used to control simple people via fear since the first men need to control his fellows. Ignore the strident know-it-alls-with-no-logic , especially the type like Sackdance here. I'd pay good money to see the look on his face the day after he finally buys the farm......if there was an afterlife, of course. Which there isn't.

    Religion is a joke. A way to control people. And a good one....it's worked for thousands of years so far, and mankind seems as simple minded as ever on the subject even to this day.[/QUOTE]

    Warfish is 100% correct. Religion wants you to believe if you do some form of works hopefully you will get into Heaven. All religions base your eternal life on some formula you must do to earn your way in. That is a complete folly. Jesus didn't die for a religion, if so he died for nothing. I grew up Catholic until I found out how deceived I was about 10 years ago. I researched everything I knew and found out Catholicism was nothing more than a "religion" who makes you jump through hoops to earn salvation and you still don't know if you were good enough to make it when it's all done.

    I don't like religion because it is all made up by man. Being a true Christian and knowing you belong to Jesus Christ is about RELATIONSHIP not RELIGION. I can't do a thing to get into heaven. It was already done 2,000 years ago on the cross. [url]www.getsavedtoday.com[/url]

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=sackdance]And your opinions are not opinions but facts, chief? Some basic study in persuasive writing might up your Bible sales.[/QUOTE]

    OK Mr. Catholic let me ask you: Tell me (assume I didn't know how and I just walked up to you) How do I get to Heaven?

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=sackdance99]JetsYanks, although it may sound unpopular. You either belong to Christ or you don't belong to Christ. NOBODY makes it to heaven because they were a nice person. The bible clearly ststes that over and over and unless you have read the bible you wouldn't know that.

    If you ask the average person "In your personal opinion what do you think it takes for a person to get to Heaven?", 95% of the time you will hear a response like be honest, be a good person, help people out, go to church, do the Sacraments, etc. Now those are great characteristics but they have no eternal value. Instead of writing for 3 hours here the best thing would be to click on this link. [url]http://www.carm.org/objections.htm[/url] Don't listen to the "opinions" of people. Stick with the Word of God, the bible. Most people refuse to listen to the bible because it is offensive to them (because they are being condemned). The are more concerned in making up a God that doesn't exist to make themselves feel comfortable. But on the day of Judgement when they stand before God when they die they are going to be in for some shock.

    You worry about where your mother in law might be right now and I can understand that totally. Don't gamble with the eternal destination of you or your wife. Eternity is a long time to be wrong.[/QUOTE]

    Sackdance is not exactly right here. Christianity teaches that IF you have been given the gospel of cHrist and choose to reject it, you get what you want - an eternity without God. But there is the question of how God treats those that have not gotten the good news of Christ. For those who have not had the opportunity to choose Christ, God judges them on a different standard, including if they recognize tha the things of God are written clearly on their hearts. If you read Romans, the book gets into it.

    But for those who have heard and choose to deny, denial is what they get.

    I'll try to get back and write more later.

  9. #9
    o.k. EVERYONE Let's keep this above bar and have a solid debate.

    Sackdance with all due respect you didnt answer the question and honestly I AM VERY INTERESTED in the average mans coming to terms withthe unknown.

    My thoughts are that:

    1) Hindus beleive that Jesus lived and preached the word of God but that he wasnt the messsiah MUCH LIKE THE JEWS.

    ** Question: I always here the evangelicals referringo to the JEWS as the chosen people much as the Jews themselves believe they are (No judgement here not meaning to offend anyone) the chosen people.

    How does a Christian rationalize the whole chosen people question?

    If the Jews are the chosen what does that say about the rest of us? Gentile, Hindu, etc Do we have a chance to be saved?

    Why are the Jews NOT DAMNED for not believing that Jesus was the son of God?

    2) Is someone that grows in a country dominated by Hinduism or Islam damned even though they never had the opportunity to be exposed to Chistianity?

    What if this person lives a good life?

    3) Catholic Annulment - Went through this process with the wife. She was married before I was not. We were told and we read as much that annullments are to be granted 99.99% of the time all it takes is going through the process which can take a year and about $1,000.

    Question: If you have experience with this process, did it make you question the intentions of the church? Is Annullment a money play???

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=sackdance99]OK Mr. Catholic let me ask you: Tell me (assume I didn't know how and I just walked up to you) How do I get to Heaven?[/QUOTE]
    Contrary to your sister's opinion, I am not God, but just a skillful puzzy surfer. That's right, puzzy surfer. You might not get my drift, Mr. Azzhole, but she certainly would. And if you ever walked up to me while I was surfing puzzy to ask: "How do I get to Heaven?" I'd poke you in the eye and tell you to put your money where your mouth is and go jump off a bridge.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=JCnflies]Sackdance is not exactly right here. Christianity teaches that IF you have been given the gospel of cHrist and choose to reject it, you get what you want - an eternity without God. But there is the question of how God treats those that have not gotten the good news of Christ. For those who have not had the opportunity to choose Christ, God judges them on a different standard, including if they recognize tha the things of God are written clearly on their hearts. If you read Romans, the book gets into it.

    But for those who have heard and choose to deny, denial is what they get.

    I'll try to get back and write more later.[/QUOTE]

    Great answer JC. I just wonder how much of this is man anticipating the questions being asked and how much is based in the true word of god.

    The second Catholic convention altered alot of what the Catholic church professes and many reject it (See M Gibson) for example. The religion has evolved.

    Also, one question I am very interested in hearing the answer to is the whole Jews are chosen people and where does that leave the rest of us? Where does that leave the Jews since they dont believe Jesus is the savior?

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=Warfish]It is the worlds greatest evil, used to control simple people via fear since the first men need to control his fellows. Ignore the strident know-it-alls-with-no-logic , especially the type like Sackdance here. [/QUOTE]
    Totally wrong. Hitler, Stalin, PolPot. Three worst mass murderers in history, all of the 20th century, and all would agree with you that religion is the world's greatest evil. Then they'd probably kill you.

    I am not a strident know-it-all, but shared my belief system. Laid it out, what I believe. Pushed nothing (but did suggest confession to the already Catholic, I beg a thousand pardons for the transgression) but get the crap from Sackdance99 ([I]please, ignore Mr. Catholic's "opinions" in this thread of discussion[/I]) and whatever else comes down the pike. I don't even know why I posted in a religious thread, I should know better.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=sackdance]Totally wrong. Hitler, Stalin, PolPot. Three worst mass murderers in history, all of the 20th century, and all would agree with you that religion is the world's greatest evil. Then they'd probably kill you.

    I am not a strident know-it-all, but shared my belief system. Laid it out, what I believe. Pushed nothing (but did suggest confession to the already Catholic, I beg a thousand pardons for the transgression) but get the crap from Sackdance99 ([I]please, ignore Mr. Catholic's "opinions" in this thread of discussion[/I]) and whatever else comes down the pike. I don't even know why I posted in a religious thread, I should know better.[/QUOTE]

    Comeon now your input is very appreciated. I had hoped we could keep this civil. It's a sad testament to man when we cant be civil and refrain from killing each other when talking about a religion we all beleive in.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=JETSYANKS71]
    The second Catholic convention altered alot of what the Catholic church professes and many reject it (See M Gibson) for example. The religion has evolved.[/quote]
    Hello wikipedia. Hello again, multiboy.

    [QUOTE=JEWSby7thPostSubmarine]Also, one question I am very interested in hearing the answer to is the whole Jews are chosen people and where does that leave the rest of us? Where does that leave the Jews since they dont believe Jesus is the savior?[/QUOTE]
    Of course, it's k*ke-man. 7 posts in on a Jets board and horning in on the Jews.

    You are obsessed.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=JETSYANKS71]Comeon now your input is very appreciated.[/QUOTE]
    Well, I am a skillful surfer. That's been established.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=sackdance]Totally wrong. Hitler, Stalin, PolPot. Three worst mass murderers in history, all of the 20th century, and all would agree with you that religion is the world's greatest evil. Then they'd probably kill you.

    I am not a strident know-it-all, but shared my belief system. Laid it out, what I believe. Pushed nothing (but did suggest confession to the already Catholic, I beg a thousand pardons for the transgression) but get the crap from Sackdance99 ([I]please, ignore Mr. Catholic's "opinions" in this thread of discussion[/I]) and whatever else comes down the pike. I don't even know why I posted in a religious thread, I should know better.[/QUOTE]

    History shows that more people have been murdered and tortured in the name of God, than for any other reason or cause. Can't change history my friend, only learn from it. Of course Hitler, et al are evil without question or individual equal.

    No worries Sack (too many Sacks on this site, one needs to change names, lol). I know you have faith, and thats cool. I respect your choice to believe, and I hope you can respect my freedom to choose not to believe. He asked opinion, I gave mine. But I feel as you do.....I wonder why I post to these threads anymore either. We never really get anywhere, do we?

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=sackdance]Hello wikipedia. Hello again, multiboy.


    Of course, it's k*ke-man. 7 posts in on a Jets board and horning in on the Jews.

    You are obsessed.[/QUOTE]

    Aye, I had that feeling too.....like we've heard this one before, and know where it goes, where it's headed.....

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Warfish]History shows that more people have been murdered and tortured in the name of God, than for any other reason or cause. Can't change history my friend, only learn from it. Of course Hitler, et al are evil without question or individual equal.

    No worries Sack (too many Sacks on this site, one needs to change names, lol). I know you have faith, and thats cool. I respect your choice to believe, and I hope you can respect my freedom to choose not to believe. He asked opinion, I gave mine. But I feel as you do.....I wonder why I post to these threads anymore either. We never really get anywhere, do we?[/QUOTE]
    Word. I know where you're coming from, too, and wholly respect that. I came back to faith after experiencing, frankly, the power of prayer (is that Swaggart's term?). I essentially drank like Sloppy McDrinksalot and harbored a penchant for coke on weekdays, so, uh, something had to change. It works for me. Hopefully, the only soul sales I'll ever get involved in is to lead by example - in person - and if anyone asks, just share my belief and let it go at that.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=Warfish]Aye, I had that feeling too.....like we've heard this one before, and know where it goes, where it's headed.....[/QUOTE]

    I guess you imply that this was meant to be an anti-semetic thread. But that is not the case, I have asked this question along with a few other important, thought provoking questions.

    These are the questions we've probably asked ourselves over the years and now that we've had this happen to my mother and I am left to deal with the aftermath as MY Wife is absolutely inconsolable.

    I ask, because I participated out of respect in a series of prayers that last nine days just like a novena does the church view me badly?

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=sackdance]Contrary to your sister's opinion, I am not God, but just a skillful puzzy surfer. That's right, puzzy surfer. You might not get my drift, Mr. Azzhole, but she certainly would. And if you ever walked up to me while I was surfing puzzy to ask: "How do I get to Heaven?" I'd poke you in the eye and tell you to put your money where your mouth is and go jump off a bridge.[/QUOTE]

    Boy that made a WHOLE lot of sense. Did you not understand the question or are you that simple?

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