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Thread: Will this be interpreted as the West lying to Arabs again?...

  1. #1
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    Will this be interpreted as the West lying to Arabs again?...

    ...as history showed in the time of Lawrence, Arabs felt betrayed by Europe. If we cut and run will the Iraqis feel forever betrayed?...

    Emboldened Democrats to Urge Iraq Exit
    Nov 15 11:55 AM US/Eastern

    By ANNE PLUMMER FLAHERTY
    Associated Press Writer

    WASHINGTON


    [B]The Bush administration must tell Iraq that U.S. troops will begin withdrawing in four to six months, the next chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee said Wednesday[/B], as Congress began re- examining U.S. policy in the wake of last week's Democratic election victory.
    "We cannot save the Iraqis from themselves. The only way for Iraqi leaders to squarely face that reality is for President Bush to tell them that the United States will begin a phased redeployment of our forces within four to six months," Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., said at the outset of a hearing featuring the top U.S. commander in the Middle East.

    ....where is the support promised?

  2. #2
    history also showed in the time of Churchill that Bagdhad is untamable.

    just because we want the world to look a certain way doesn't make it so.

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=bitonti]history also showed in the time of Churchill that Bagdhad is untamable.

    [/QUOTE]
    good point, however we are presenting an opportunity for that to be changed, it just has to come from them, when they are able

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=bitonti]history also showed in the time of Churchill that Bagdhad is untamable.

    just because we want the world to look a certain way doesn't make it so.[/QUOTE]

    Baghdad is not untamable. But we don't have near enough troops in the city to do the job

  5. #5
    How do you get people to get along with each other or for that matter not want to kill each other and band together to form a functioning government? Also, do you think, if the three separate groups ran three separate states and were bound together by common laws that encompassed all three it could work out?

  6. #6
    it was pure American egoism to believe that we could succeed in bringing peace to a region that has defied peace since the days of Pharoah.

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    [QUOTE=chicadeel]How do you get people to get along with each other or for that matter not want to kill each other and band together to form a functioning government? Also, do you think, if the three separate groups ran three separate states and were bound together by common laws that encompassed all three it could work out?[/QUOTE]
    A daunting task...I don't think lines can be drawn, that just esatblishes another battlefield down the road. Three states, one country?...interesting idea. Perhaps a Democracy in it's infancy can start that way, similar to the old west. It would have to be shared rescources though, and is that a problem because of oil rich areas?

  8. #8
    I would only hope that if the three groups ran their own areas they could be satisfied with growing and prospering and staying alive. Basically what everyone hopes for in their life. The revenues absolutely would have to be shared. I think the major problem would be in the oversight of revenue to keep it honest.

    Its easy to say "you broke it and it can't be fixed" or "it's been broken forever and will never be fixed". I say, people would rather live and be happy then be miserable and die. Lets start there. Lets figure out a way, and I'm sure there is a way, to fix this thing.

  9. #9
    flushingjet
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    [QUOTE=bitonti]history also showed in the time of Churchill that Bagdhad is untamable.

    just because we want the world to look a certain way doesn't make it so.[/QUOTE]

    yes, just like when you say something is a certain
    way, it isn't so

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=bitonti]it was pure American egoism to believe that we could succeed in bringing peace to a region that has defied peace since the days of Pharoah.[/QUOTE]

    So, just for clarity, are you saying that Peace in the Middle East Region is impossible? As in 100% not possible by any means?

    And if that is true, what do you do about the region then Bit, cause the world sure cannot ignore it. A Nuke-Capable Iran is only the start.

    Or are you only good with solutions to those evil bastards in BIG OIL! BIG OIL! :rolleyes:

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=jetswin]Three states, one country?...interesting idea. Perhaps a Democracy in it's infancy can start that way, similar to the old west.[/QUOTE]


    3 states will never work.

    I remember hearing about this country in high school. They had the dumb idea to start off with 13 states, what an unlucky number! Needless to say after 275 years, that country fizzled to nothing. I believe it was overrun by a burrito-toting horde located to its south. They had the ridiculous idea to build a wall didn't even come close to being long enough to run the distance of the entire border. Hindsight is 20/20.

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=doggin94it]Baghdad is not untamable. But we don't have near enough troops in the city to do the job[/QUOTE]


    What makes you think Baghdad is "tamable"? What evidence have you seen to lead you to believe this is possible?

    You talk about not having enough troops, how will more troops help the current problems in Iraq? Which side will the troops take? Sunni or Shia? The overwhelming violence we are seeing in Iraq today is between Iraqis. Not foreign fighters. Its Iraqi Shia vs Iraqi Sunni. And the elected govt seems to be supporting the Shia Militias that are acting as death squads. How will more soldiers help this? Are you suggesting that we ignore the sovereign democratically elected Iraqi government by rounding up/killing the militias that they support (it seems we already have since we didnt trust them enough to tell them about our raids of Sadr City- I guess our generals knew the govt tips the militias off about our prior attacks) ? What message does that send to the Iraqis re democracy? The Iraqi people overwhelmingly voted in a Shia Dominant government. One that was given refuge and trained by Iran, one that had actively fought against Sunnis (and murdered US MArines in the 1980s in Beirut). Why do you expect this govt to suddenly turn around and make peace with the Sunnis and treat the USA (and not IraN) as an ally?

    Do you have any basis to thinking that Iraq can become "a pro-western peaceful democracy that will fight along our side in the war on terror" as was hoped when we overthrew their government? Or is this just a childish fantasy with nor basis in reality, as is become more obvious by the day.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Warfish]So, just for clarity, are you saying that Peace in the Middle East Region is impossible? As in 100% not possible by any means?

    And if that is true, what do you do about the region then Bit, cause the world sure cannot ignore it. A Nuke-Capable Iran is only the start.[/QUOTE]

    Still waiting Bit......still waiting.......

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