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Thread: Why are Liberals loathe to call themselves Democrats lately?

  1. #1

    Why are Liberals loathe to call themselves Democrats lately?

    Simple question.......a good portion of our Liberal-minded posters have adamantly refused to be counted as Democrats, instead calling themselves "Independants" or "Progressives".

    Which brings to points to mind. There is no "Progressive" Party. And for Independants, they seem to agree with Leftist Liberal Doctrine a very large percentage of the time here.

    So why the seeming fear to call yourself a Democrat? After all, your side just crushed the right?

    And for our Liberal "Independants", can you list a few of the positions where you do NOT side with the Liberals, and instead side with Republicans/Conservatives. That would be very useful to see how you actually ARE more than Liberals in Independant Clothing.

  2. #2
    Can you start this off with at least spelling Independents correctly?

  3. #3
    maybe because the Democratic party is dispicable. Ted Kennedy, Hillary, Kerry need I say more?

    These guys are still a bunch of monkeys but they are the better of two evils right now. That's saying something to the poor quality of the Republican party as a whole.

    also despite their victorys, they didn't win anything so much as the GOP lost it.

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=Warfish]Simple question.......a good portion of our Liberal-minded posters have adamantly refused to be counted as Democrats, instead calling themselves "Independants" or "Progressives".

    Which brings to points to mind. There is no "Progressive" Party. And for Independants, they seem to agree with Leftist Liberal Doctrine a very large percentage of the time here.

    So why the seeming fear to call yourself a Democrat? After all, your side just crushed the right?

    And for our Liberal "Independants", can you list a few of the positions where you do NOT side with the Liberals, and instead side with Republicans/Conservatives. That would be very useful to see how you actually ARE more than Liberals in Independant Clothing.[/QUOTE]

    I vote for the individual that best represents what I want in a certain political scenario.

    In this latest election, the republicans ran with the party line "stay the course". That was not going to work with me, so I voted democrat. Any republican who thought that way would not get my vote regardless of other positions. The war was the most important issue to me.

    I am an independent. I vote as I stated above. It is my right to define myself. If others feel a certain way about me or my thoughts, that is their right to do so.

    I am not enamored with the democratic party or the republican party. Until the recent election, I could hardly find a difference at times. The war no doubt brought out the best in America and the Americans.

    I just hope we can continue on the path of peace and prosperity.

    There is no Progressive Party. There are Progressive People in the USA. I consider myself one of them. My father is also an independent. Sometimes when we talk I think that I am talking to Archie Bunker :)

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=Warfish]And for our Liberal "Independants", can you list a few of the positions where you do NOT side with the Liberals, and instead side with Republicans/Conservatives. That would be very useful to see how you actually ARE more than Liberals in Independant Clothing.[/QUOTE]

    The biggest domestic issues I have with the liberal platform are fiscal policy, welfare, affirmative action and abortion.

    Most of the liberals out there are proponents of late term abortion, which I find abhorrent unless it threatens the health of the mother. The cut-off point for non-life-threatening abortion should be 4 months, because that is when the fetus actually starts to develop mental capacity and in the end it's the brain that makes a mass of cells an animal.

    I'm not for irresponsible spending, which is something that disgusted me about the Bush administration. The problem is, Democrats have always overspent and created too many big government programs that simply don't work and promote irresponsibility by the citizens in terms of taking care of their own fiscal business and relying too heavily on the government's programs. That's also where welfare comes in - I have no problem with the government helping people that need help - but far too many people are abusing the system and using welfare to be lazy instead of a financial assistance. Workfare is the way to go. Use the finances to teach these people practical skills and assist in finding jobs instead of just giving them a free paycheck and doing nothing else. The more they do to help themselves, the more assistance they can receive. You do less, then that's your own responsibility and you screw yourself.

    Affirmative action should be helping out the poor, not helping certain minorities (blacks, latinos) gain advantages over other minorities (asians, middle easterners). In the end it's creating another form of racism. There really should be no reason why a black person who's parents are successful doctors living on the upper west side should be gaining advantage over an asian person from chinatown, just because traditionally asians have had more success as a general minority. I've seen too many cases of asians getting discriminated against no matter what conditions they grew up in getting no help while blacks or latinos with much worse grades and much better financial situations get into colleges with scholarship.

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg]
    I just hope we can continue on the path of peace and prosperity.
    [/QUOTE]

    That's an interesting statement. Who exactly is "we"? Americans? What about the rest of the planet? Do you think its possible for Americans to live in a bubble and not be affected by the rest of the world?

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=quantum]That's an interesting statement. Who exactly is "we"? Americans? What about the rest of the planet? Do you think its possible for Americans to live in a bubble and not be affected by the rest of the world?[/QUOTE]

    I did not state that only Americans should prosper. My statement says:


    [B]"I just hope we can continue on the path of peace and prosperity."[/B]

    You must have read a limit on it.

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=49ersJetsfan]The biggest domestic issues I have with the liberal platform are fiscal policy, welfare, affirmative action and abortion.

    Most of the liberals out there are proponents of late term abortion, which I find abhorrent unless it threatens the health of the mother. The cut-off point for non-life-threatening abortion should be 4 months, because that is when the fetus actually starts to develop mental capacity and in the end it's the brain that makes a mass of cells an animal.

    I'm not for irresponsible spending, which is something that disgusted me about the Bush administration. The problem is, Democrats have always overspent and created too many big government programs that simply don't work and promote irresponsibility by the citizens in terms of taking care of their own fiscal business and relying too heavily on the government's programs. That's also where welfare comes in - I have no problem with the government helping people that need help - but far too many people are abusing the system and using welfare to be lazy instead of a financial assistance. Workfare is the way to go. Use the finances to teach these people practical skills and assist in finding jobs instead of just giving them a free paycheck and doing nothing else. The more they do to help themselves, the more assistance they can receive. You do less, then that's your own responsibility and you screw yourself.

    Affirmative action should be helping out the poor, not helping certain minorities (blacks, latinos) gain advantages over other minorities (asians, middle easterners). In the end it's creating another form of racism. There really should be no reason why a black person who's parents are successful doctors living on the upper west side should be gaining advantage over an asian person from chinatown, just because traditionally asians have had more success as a general minority. I've seen too many cases of asians getting discriminated against no matter what conditions they grew up in getting no help while blacks or latinos with much worse grades and much better financial situations get into colleges with scholarship.[/QUOTE]

    Abortion is murder. I would hate to think that one of my two sons would've been aborted :eek: :steamin:

    The Bush admin did overspend and grew the gov't well beyond what it should be. I am a fiscal conservative.

    How do you think that welfare is going to the people? More goes to corporations that to people. People can't even file for BK these days. The rules did not change for Corporations. I think you need to rethink this position.
    Corporations get tax breaks for outsourcing jobs to other countries. They don't train folks to work here as readily as before.

    The majority race of Americans have had a 225 year lead in affirmative action.
    The slave trade made the major American race prosperous. today most of the American Federal gov't contracts go to the major American Race.

    Even when there are federal gov't set aside programs to stem the tide of that. 90%+ of the contracts do not go to Women and minorities. That is affirmative action if I have ever seen it.

    I am fighting now and will win next week over this issue. I see this stuff first hand as a fed gov't contractor. It is unreal. Again that is another position you need to rethink.

    My oldest son has an A+ GPA in HS. He earned it. He is also a 4 sport athlete. He has been getting letters from some colleges to join them. I think that you need to revisit some of the things that you have put here.

  9. #9
    I am a registered Democrat and have no problem being called a liberal or a Democrat so I don't know what you are talking about.

    I do not always vote for the Democrat (in the last election I did not vote for Hillary) and do not always agree with the so called liberal view of every issue.

    I so far like what I see from Nancy Pelosi and I look forward to Democratic control of Congress.

    As to your point that liberals don't want to be called Democrats on this board the same can be said of many Conservatives who don't want to be called Republicans. They also say they are independents or Libertarians etc.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg]Abortion is murder. I would hate to think that one of my two sons would've been aborted :eek: :steamin:

    The Bush admin did overspend and grew the gov't well beyond what it should be. I am a fiscal conservative.

    How do you think that welfare is going to the people? More goes to corporations that to people. People can't even file for BK these days. The rules did not change for Corporations. I think you need to rethink this position.
    Corporations get tax breaks for outsourcing jobs to other countries. They don't train folks to work here as readily as before.

    The majority race of Americans have had a 225 year lead in affirmative action.
    The slave trade made the major American race prosperous. today most of the American Federal gov't contracts go to the major American Race.

    Even when there are federal gov't set aside programs to stem the tide of that. 90%+ of the contracts do not go to Women and minorities. That is affirmative action if I have ever seen it.

    I am fighting now and will win next week over this issue. I see this stuff first hand as a fed gov't contractor. It is unreal. Again that is another position you need to rethink.

    My oldest son has an A+ GPA in HS. He earned it. He is also a 4 sport athlete. He has been getting letters from some colleges to join them. I think that you need to revisit some of the things that you have put here.[/QUOTE]

    Race-based Affirmative action is a horrible program, period.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg]The majority race of Americans have had a 225 year lead in affirmative action.
    The slave trade made the major American race prosperous. today most of the American Federal gov't contracts go to the major American Race.

    Even when there are federal gov't set aside programs to stem the tide of that. 90%+ of the contracts do not go to Women and minorities. That is affirmative action if I have ever seen it.

    I am fighting now and will win next week over this issue. I see this stuff first hand as a fed gov't contractor. It is unreal. Again that is another position you need to rethink.

    My oldest son has an A+ GPA in HS. He earned it. He is also a 4 sport athlete. He has been getting letters from some colleges to join them. I think that you need to revisit some of the things that you have put here.[/QUOTE]

    Ok, Dawg. A few questions/facts for you, and I truly hope you'll reply to them:

    [U]Situation #1:[/U] There is not a single starting Tailback in the NFL who is white.

    Do you believe that is due to racism, superiority of black athletes, or some other factor (and if so, what). Please be specific, and also tell us what sould be done to fix this problem.

    [U]Situation #2:[/U] I graduated HS with a 2.8 GPA and 1260 SAT and many sports and other extra curriculars and AP courses. A good friend of mine, an African American, graduated with a 2.6 GPA and 1060 SAT, played no sports and was in only a few extra curriculars and no AP Classes.

    We both applied to VA Tech. He got in. I didn't.

    And one last factor. I was born in Scotland of Scottish/Irish decendency. My younger brother was the first to be born in the USA. My family has no ties whatsoever to slaves, slave trading or any previous prosperity. In fact, my family that did come over (Mom's side) were poor steel workers and brick layers and janitors.

    Was it fair that I was kept out? Was it right? And if so, why?

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=jets5ever]Race-based Affirmative action is a horrible program, period.[/QUOTE]

    Agreed.

    As Dr. King stated "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Warfish]Ok, Dawg. A few questions/facts for you, and I truly hope you'll reply to them:

    [U]Situation #1:[/U] There is not a single starting Tailback in the NFL who is white.

    Do you believe that is due to racism, superiority of black athletes, or some other factor (and if so, what). Please be specific, and also tell us what sould be done to fix this problem.

    [U]Situation #2:[/U] I graduated HS with a 2.8 GPA and 1260 SAT and many sports and other extra curriculars and AP courses. A good friend of mine, an African American, graduated with a 2.6 GPA and 1060 SAT, played no sports and was in only a few extra curriculars and no AP Classes.

    We both applied to VA Tech. He got in. I didn't.

    And one last factor. I was born in Scotland of Scottish/Irish decendency. My younger brother was the first to be born in the USA. My family has no ties whatsoever to slaves, slave trading or any previous prosperity. In fact, my family that did come over (Mom's side) were poor steel workers and brick layers and janitors.

    Was it fair that I was kept out? Was it right? And if so, why?[/QUOTE]


    This is not my area of expertise and I can only supply my opinion and thoughts.

    To put things into perspective, I am not a football coach. I currently think that the Jets could use a better runner/running game. I see white athletes at RB in college.

    Pro Basketball went to Europe when it looked as though there were not enough major American race players or major American race players were not good enough. The Jets have a punter from another country. Why is it that the NFL only/mostly looks to the USA for players?

    The scouts should expand to other areas of the world if that is what they want is a European heritaged RB and cannot find any here in the USA. Baseball goes to Japan and China to find players not just SA.

    I don't know the whole situation that you expressed in the second part of the statement. We all face challenges in life. Life is not fair. I can't complain to the gov't that I did not get a contract because I am an AA.

    I have to research if necessary and come up with the proper answer/strategy. I don't go after the contracts that the gov't sets aside for minorities and women. I go after the 90% that is set aside for the Major America race.

    That is where the money is. When I show the gov't the stats that the caretakers of the gov't agency did or didn't meet, only then do I have something tangible that allows me to win when I don't win outright.

    I don't let them get away with things if I can fight it and win. The gov't contractors have standards that they must meet. If they don't the get fined or other things can happen like lose the contract.

    Again life is not fair we all face issues that we don't like. It is a matter of managing them and overcoming them. That is how I do it.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg]
    I don't know the whole situation that you expressed in the second part of the statement. We all face challenges in life. Life is not fair. I can't complain to the gov't that I did not get a contract because I am an AA.

    I have to research if necessary and come up with the proper answer/strategy. I don't go after the contracts that the gov't sets aside for minorities and women. I go after the 90% that is set aside for the Major America race.

    That is where the money is. When I show the gov't the stats that the caretakers of the gov't agency did or didn't meet, only then do I have something tangible that allows me to win when I don't win outright.

    I don't let them get away with things if I can fight it and win. The gov't contractors have standards that they must meet. If they don't the get fined or other things can happen like lose the contract.

    Again life is not fair we all face issues that we don't like. It is a matter of managing them and overcoming them. That is how I do it.[/QUOTE]

    So from this amazingly double-speak mostly-irrelevant "cry more Fish" answer, I can only take it that you DO believe such a system is fair.

    Well, shame on me then, I should have expected that. Yes, life isn't fair, no doubt. But when it is a specific Govt. program (affirmative action) that makes life unfair, it should be changed.

    But then again, everyone, Blacks included, look out for #1. Clearly you have no issue with a program that discriminated against me, but favored you and gave you advantages I never had access to.

    And that sir, is racism.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=Warfish]So from this amazingly double-speak mostly-irrelevant "cry more Fish" answer, I can only take it that you DO believe such a system is fair.

    Well, shame on me then, I should have expected that. Yes, life isn't fair, no doubt. But when it is a specific Govt. program (affirmative action) that makes life unfair, it should be changed.

    But then again, everyone, Blacks included, look out for #1. Clearly you have no issue with a program that discriminated against me, but favored you and gave you advantages I never had access to.

    And that sir, is racism.[/QUOTE]

    The Affirmative Action program that gave a lot of Major Race Americans a 225 year head start is still acceptable in alot of places.

    My community was not here on it's own will. That makes a big difference in how things can get skewed. Slavery was a specific gov't program that made life unfair for Africans that were brought/bought here against their will.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg]The Affirmative Action program that gave a lot of Major Race Americans a 225 year head start is still acceptable in alot of places.

    My community was not here on it's own will. That makes a big difference in how things can get skewed. Slavery was a specific gov't program that made life unfair for Africans that were brought/bought here against their will.[/QUOTE]

    Defend your bigoted racist world-view however you like Dawg. It's still racism to have any program in place that treats people differently based on nothing more than the color of their skin. You don;t want equallity, you want supremacy and feel it's owed to you.

    And while you can complain about history all you like, as I clearly pointed out, that history was not MY history, and I should not have been held back and discrimated against because of someone elses misdeeds.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=Warfish]Defend your bigoted racist world-view however you like Dawg. It's still racism to have any program in place that treats people differently based on nothing more than the color of their skin. You don;t want equallity, you want supremacy and feel it's owed to you.

    And while you can complain about history all you like, as I clearly pointed out, that history was not MY history, and I should not have been held back and discrimated against because of someone elses misdeeds.[/QUOTE]

    I don't see how I am defending anything here. I simply don't equate or think it is fair to debate Affirmative Action in the same breathe as Slavery.

    The misdeeds that were done to the Africans in Slavery again were against a people who were brought here against their will. You (plural) and many others came here to the USA on and of your own will.

    That makes a difference. The Africans were discrimintated against at the very least because of someone else's misdeeds.

    What should be done to fix the problem that slavery caused?

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Queens Jet Fan]
    I so far like what I see from Nancy Pelosi and I look forward to Democratic control of Congress.[/QUOTE]
    [Url=http://www.webcommentary.com/asp/ShowArticle.asp?id=kourij&date=061215]Competency: straight out of the gate.[/Url]

    1st choice for House Chair of Intelligence: a disgraced judge with a corrupt past that not even Pelosi's own party could stomach.

    2nd choice: guy who knows considerably less about the Middle than most the people on this messageboard.

    Is this stuff part of what you like so far?

  19. #19
    Do you automatically assume it is because you were white?

    [QUOTE=Warfish]
    [U]Situation #2:[/U] I graduated HS with a 2.8 GPA and 1260 SAT and many sports and other extra curriculars and AP courses. A good friend of mine, an African American, graduated with a 2.6 GPA and 1060 SAT, played no sports and was in only a few extra curriculars and no AP Classes.

    We both applied to VA Tech. He got in. I didn't.

    And one last factor. I was born in Scotland of Scottish/Irish decendency. My younger brother was the first to be born in the USA. My family has no ties whatsoever to slaves, slave trading or any previous prosperity. In fact, my family that did come over (Mom's side) were poor steel workers and brick layers and janitors.

    Was it fair that I was kept out? Was it right? And if so, why?[/QUOTE]

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=cr726]Do you automatically assume it is because you were white?[/QUOTE]

    Well, what an interesting question, given that I knew all the variables involved (and stated most of them above).

    So CR, you clearly think it was something else. So what do YOU think it was?

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