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Thread: Kiva - a revolutionary way to give back

  1. #1

    Kiva - a revolutionary way to give back

    [url]http://kiva.org/app.php[/url]

    Kiva lets you connect with and loan money to unique small businesses in the developing world. By choosing a business on Kiva.org, you can "sponsor a business" and help the world's working poor make great strides towards economic independence. Throughout the course of the loan (usually 6-12 months), you can receive email journal updates from the business you've sponsored. As loans are repaid, you get your loan money back.

  2. #2
    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound][url]http://kiva.org/app.php[/url]

    Kiva lets you connect with and loan money to unique small businesses in the developing world. By choosing a business on Kiva.org, you can "sponsor a business" and help the world's working poor make great strides towards economic independence. Throughout the course of the loan (usually 6-12 months), you can receive email journal updates from the business you've sponsored. As loans are repaid, you get your loan money back.[/QUOTE]
    LOL!

  3. #3

  4. #4
    flushingjet
    Guest
    Another Ponzi scheme...maybe YOU should get a MBA so you can tell this stuff is shiznit within 5 seconds.

    This is the only kiva worth a darn:
    [url="http://santafekiva.com/"]http://santafekiva.com/[/url]

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=flushingjet]Another Ponzi scheme...maybe YOU should get a MBA so you can tell this stuff is shiznit within 5 seconds.

    This is the only kiva worth a darn:
    [url="http://santafekiva.com/"]http://santafekiva.com/[/url][/QUOTE]

    oh do explain. how is a ponzi scheme when the lenders aren't in it to invest? that makes no sense.


    Maybe the Economist should get some MBAs as well...

    [url]http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5079324[/url]

  6. #6
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound]oh do explain. how is a ponzi scheme when the lenders aren't in it to invest? that makes no sense.


    Maybe the Economist should get some MBAs as well...

    [url="http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5079324"]http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5079324[/url][/QUOTE]

    Put down the pipe & actually read through the story/web sites.

    What does the Economist really say here?
    Anything about Kiva specifically?
    Fraud and corruption abound at all level of finance in the 3rd world,
    gee what a revelation.

    Kiva has no credible anything behind it-none of these
    partners are cited in the Economist story
    [url="http://kiva.org/app.php?page=about&action=partners"]http://kiva.org/app.php?page=about&action=partners[/url]

    Give to Nicaragua and Gazan businesses if you must,
    but consider it charity-not an investment

    Oh, and a Ponzi scheme, means if you invest and get a return,
    that comes from funds paid in to the scheme
    from the suckers who come in after you, not
    from any real profitability.

    That MBA sure comes in handy I tell you!
    Last edited by flushingjet; 01-14-2007 at 02:59 PM.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=flushingjet]Put down the pipe & actually read through the story/web sites.

    What does the Economist really say here?
    Anything about Kiva specifically?
    Fraud and corruption abound at all level of finance in the 3rd world,
    gee what a revelation.

    Kiva has no credible anything behind it-none of these
    partners are cited in the Economist story
    [url="http://kiva.org/app.php?page=about&action=partners"]http://kiva.org/app.php?page=about&action=partners[/url]

    Give to Nicaragua and Gazan businesses if you must,
    but consider it charity-not an investment[/QUOTE]

    Where did I say it was an investment? Of course it's a type of charity. Who would think otherwise? My title specifically says, "a way to give back." Nice, flushingjet. Nice.

    I guess they didn't teach you to read at your "various educational institutions."

  8. #8
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound]Where did I say it was an investment? Of course it's a type of charity. Who would think otherwise? My title specifically says, "a way to give back." Nice, flushingjet. Nice.

    I guess they didn't teach you to read at your "various educational institutions."[/QUOTE]

    A way to give back? Come again?
    Give back what, and why?

    Uh, the top of the Kiva site says, "LEND".

    You, the sympathetic sucker don't get interest on what
    you've LENT. Why not just say DONATE instead?


    It costs $ for Kiva to exist, and have a web site, so they make it
    up on what interest they charge the loan recipient.

    "Interest"ing way to get around banking regs, though
    Last edited by flushingjet; 01-14-2007 at 03:32 PM.

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=flushingjet]A way to give back? Come again?
    Give back what, and why?

    Uh, the top of the Kiva site says, "LEND".

    You, the sympathetic sucker don't get interest on what
    you've LENT. Why not just say DONATE instead?


    It costs $ for Kiva to exist, and have a web site, so they make it
    up on what interest they charge the loan recipient.

    "Interest"ing way to get around banking regs, though[/QUOTE]

    Micro-financing is a form of charity, so your comparison of it to a Ponzi Scheme is laughable. Lenders are not expecting to profit. Also, if you would like to donate, you can do that as well.

    How am I a sucker when I know exactly what I'm getting into? I fully realize I'm not getting interest and that is entirely besides the point.

  10. #10
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound]Micro-financing is a form of charity, so your comparison of it to a Ponzi Scheme is laughable. Lenders are not expecting to profit. Also, if you would like to donate, you can do that as well.

    How am I a sucker when I know exactly what I'm getting into? I fully realize I'm not getting interest and that is entirely besides the point.[/QUOTE]

    No, genius, if you get paid back from proceeds received from
    lenders who follow you down the rat hole its still a pyramid scheme.

    You are not considered a donor, so you cant write off a loan
    unless the IRS says your commitment to a goat farmer in Uganda
    via Kiva that is defaulted on down the line is a valid deduction

    The founders are connected to web service co's, the
    head guy is ex-Paypal and got ebay/Paypal to waive transaction
    fees for him. A nice writeoff perhaps for Paypal and/or Kiva,
    and you, the sucker (er, lender) get nothing except a
    happy feeling and all the risk of losing your "investment"

    When the word gets around of Kiva money piling up, it will see its share
    of scamming...thats a safer bet than getting your $ back.

    Just more lib dressing up socialism in capitalist clothing IMO
    but if you wanna lose, er loan money, go right ahead.

    That 'A way to give back' concept of yours cant help but tug on guilt-ridden lib heart and purse strings, you should pitch that to Kiva to use.
    What anyone ever took from the loan recipients that needs to be given back you should clue us in on, though.

    Kiva themselves says "Loans that change lives". Awww. More tugging.

    weve all heard of a rub and tug...this is a tug and rob...
    Last edited by flushingjet; 01-14-2007 at 06:50 PM.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=flushingjet]No, genius, if you get paid back from proceeds received from
    lenders who follow you down the rat hole its still a pyramid scheme.

    You are not considered a donor, so you cant write off a loan
    unless the IRS says your commitment to a goat farmer in Uganda
    via Kiva that is defaulted on down the line is a valid deduction

    The founders are connected to web service co's, the
    head guy is ex-Paypal and got ebay/Paypal to waive transaction
    fees for him. A nice writeoff perhaps for Paypal and/or Kiva,
    and you, the sucker (er, lender) get nothing except a
    happy feeling and all the risk of losing your "investment"

    When the word gets around of Kiva money piling up, it will see its share
    of scamming...thats a safer bet than getting your $ back.

    Just more lib dressing up socialism in capitalist clothing IMO
    but if you wanna lose, er loan money, go right ahead.

    That 'A way to give back' concept of yours cant help but tug on guilt-ridden lib heart and purse strings, you should pitch that to Kiva to use.
    What anyone ever took from the loan recipients that needs to be given back you should clue us in on, though.

    Kiva themselves says "Loans that change lives". Awww. More tugging.

    weve all heard of a rub and tug...this is a tug and rob...[/QUOTE]


    You don't get a tax deduction and of course there's a risk you don't get the money back. I've never disputed otherwise. However, when you're trying to help others out, "getting yours" is not a top priority. You can do a pure donation if you would like as well.

    It's not even close to a ponzi scheme because profit doesn't enter into it and the lenders know they may not get their money back. Crappy example, buddy.

    It has nothing to do with being liberal, I am not liberal in any way shape or form. Nice try, though.

    If anyone's a sucker, it's those that donate through traditional charities. The red tape machines take a significant percentage of your money through "overhead fees" and some of the money trickles down to those who need it after it gets in the hands of their corrupt leaders. Tell me, after decades and decades of traditional charities, have they significantly improved the quality of life of most of their recepients? Nope, and these people won't rise up until they have self-sustaining businesses. I would think a "conservative" would realize that.

  12. #12
    Jets Insider VIP
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    is this from the same guy in Nigeria who sends me all those e-mails??

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]is this from the same guy in Nigeria who sends me all those e-mails??[/QUOTE]
    Yes. It looks like he's found a better story.

    BB: giving money ain't bad, but nothing makes a difference or is more rewarding or more helpful than giving your time - to any charity. Personally, that site seems to me like a scam.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=sackdance]Yes. It looks like he's found a better story.

    BB: giving money ain't bad, but nothing makes a difference or is more rewarding or more helpful than giving your time - to any charity. Personally, that site seems to me like a scam.[/QUOTE]

    So is your issue with micro-financing in general or just this site?

  15. #15
    Charity should begin at home. When there are no poor or homeless in the US, THEN we can fix the rest of the world. Till then.....

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=Warfish]Charity should begin at home. When there are no poor or homeless in the US, THEN we can fix the rest of the world. Till then.....[/QUOTE]

    One could make that case, and I do. But I also feel that our country has some of the best opportunities in the world in terms of economic mobility. I'm not saying all poor people are poor because it's their fault but that they are more in control of their destiny than a third world resident. They certainly wouldn't trade places with them.

    It's a tough issue but I do feel for people who literally have no control over their future and it won't change until they have self-sustaining businesses and infrastructure which increases their standard of living, instead of receiving aid that only proposes a short-term solution.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound]So is your issue with micro-financing in general or just this site?[/QUOTE]
    Probably micro-financing in general. Like communism (and I'm in no way or shape calling micro-financing communism) for this model to work we'd have to suspend basic laws of human nature and that's not happening.

    The Azerbaijani taxi cab driver scooping up a $1800 "loan" from generous strangers on the Internet says more than I could.

    It all touches the heart - just wait until Deputy Interior Ministers and bank officials and other Nigerians who wish to execute the estates of the wealthy killed in plane crashes hear about kiva.

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