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Thread: The Trouble with Terminology & Race

  1. #1

    The Trouble with Terminology & Race

    Mr. Obama, Potential Future President of the United States.

    Father: Kenyan African
    Mother: Kansas Caucasian
    Born: Hawaii
    Lived: Indonesia and USA

    (Source for above: Washington Post)

    And he is all but universally identified as an "African-American".

    So I have a few questions for the Board:

    --Is that term accurate fro Mr. Obama, in your opinion?

    --Would there be a more accurate term?

    --Should we, in a vastly multi-ethnic, multi-racial, racial-inter-reproducing world, continue to use terms such as "White", "Black", "Caucasian" or "African"American"?

    --Would the world (or at least the USA) be better off, or worse off (and why) if Race were no longer used as a desciptor/factor/focus in every-day life?

    Opinions, as always, are encouraged on these questions......

  2. #2
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    [QUOTE=Warfish]Mr. Obama, Potential Future President of the United States.

    Father: Kenyan African
    Mother: Kansas Caucasian
    Born: Hawaii
    Lived: Indonesia and USA

    (Source for above: Washington Post)

    And he is all but universally identified as an "African-American".

    So I have a few questions for the Board:

    --Is that term accurate fro Mr. Obama, in your opinion?

    --Would there be a more accurate term?

    --Should we, in a vastly multi-ethnic, multi-racial, racial-inter-reproducing world, continue to use terms such as "White", "Black", "Caucasian" or "African"American"?

    --Would the world (or at least the USA) be better off, or worse off (and why) if Race were no longer used as a desciptor/factor/focus in every-day life?

    Opinions, as always, are encouraged on these questions......[/QUOTE]


    actually jean kerri's wife was much more an african-American than hussien obama! :yes:

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]actually jean kerri's wife was much more an african-American than hussien obama! :yes:[/QUOTE]

    Come on bro, if you're not gonna answer the questions posed, and just want to make a Political snipe, just post it in the OTHER Obama thread. I was trying to be serious here, and was hoping for a civil discussion of this issue.

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=Warfish]Come on bro, if you're not gonna answer the questions posed, and just want to make a Political snipe, just post it in the OTHER Obama thread. I was trying to be serious here, and was hoping for a civil discussion of this issue.[/QUOTE]


    so was I....

    my great-great grandparents came from Italy- I do not consider myself an "Italian-American" rather an American whose forefathers came from Italy...

    my in-laws came from Italy and fly an American flag outside thier home...

    I think you feel the same way as well...all this African/Irish/Italian/Polish American stuff is ridiculous/out of control....

    no reason not to be proud of your heritage but the classification of it all is over the top...

  5. #5
    In todays culture it is cool to be African America. But he is actually a African-Caucasian-American. An ACA for short!

  6. #6
    People like the idea of a "black" President, because it's edgy and politically correct. That's the issue here.

  7. #7
    Descriptor/factor/focus hold vastly different meanings.

    I see nothing wrong with it being a descriptor. If I'm trying to point out Bob, and Bob is a black guy in a sea of white dudes, I'm saying "he's the black guy over there". Even if I'm amongst an equally mixed group of people and trying to point someone out, skin color would be my first descriptor. It's an obvious sign, and you can automatically rule out a number of people. Ignoring this truth would be ignorant, in my opinion.

    Factor and focus I'm not so sure about. If in relation to an opportunity, race should never be applied.

  8. #8
    Why do we have to label him at all? Why can't he just be American?

    A lot of Americans have mixed heritage at this point in time and it is becoming more prevelant by the day.

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg]Why do we have to label him at all? Why can't he just be American?[/QUOTE]

    I didn't. The Progressive Paper the Washington Post did, repeatedly and specificly. As have most major media outlets, and every newspaper or article I've read on the man.

    Hence why I felt this thread needed.

    But it brings up alot of other issues. Just one example is, would he qualify for any Reparations down the road? I ask this 100% seriosuly Dawgg, as it WOULD be a part of that issue too. Would he be the fist "Black" President? Is he "Black" at all? Should it matter even if he is?

    Does the division of Man based on skin tone do more to devide us, than unite us?

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg]Why do we have to label him at all? Why can't he just be American?

    A lot of Americans have mixed heritage at this point in time and it is becoming more prevelant by the day.[/QUOTE]


    Here's one of the rare times I agree with you.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=pauliec]Here's one of the rare times I agree with you.[/QUOTE]

    :yes:

  12. #12
    in terms of pigmentation you are either white or you aren't

    obama technically isn't white, he isn't black - but he is mixed - that makes him black for intents and purposes

    put it another way if Barack Obama gets pulled over by a cop for speeding is the cop going to think he's mixed race person or a black person? the former is more accurate but the latter is what he will be associated with.

    this is another reason why Obama can unite people, he relates to two huge disperate groups of people right off the bat.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=bitonti]in terms of pigmentation you are either white or you aren't

    obama technically isn't white, he isn't black - but he is mixed - that makes him black for intents and purposes

    put it another way if Barack Obama gets pulled over by a cop for speeding is the cop going to think he's mixed race person or a black person? the former is more accurate but the latter is what he will be associated with.

    this is another reason why Obama can unite people, he relates to two huge disperate groups of people right off the bat.[/QUOTE]


    Sly and the Family Stone didn't have much success.....

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]Sly and the Family Stone didn't have much success.....[/QUOTE]

    what are you talking about? they were a great group!

    "if you want me to stay" is a classic

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=Warfish]I didn't. The Progressive Paper the Washington Post did, repeatedly and specificly. As have most major media outlets, and every newspaper or article I've read on the man.

    Hence why I felt this thread needed.

    But it brings up alot of other issues. Just one example is, would he qualify for any Reparations down the road? I ask this 100% seriosuly Dawgg, as it WOULD be a part of that issue too. Would he be the fist "Black" President? Is he "Black" at all? Should it matter even if he is?

    Does the division of Man based on skin tone do more to devide us, than unite us?[/QUOTE]

    I am not personally of putting the word out on Obama. I did not mean for you to feel that I am attacking the messenger.

    As for reparations, I think in the end it will be about how much the individual has gained. So I don't thnik that he will be eligible. I thnik that tax credits for education or health will determine if you get reparations or not. Just my theory.

    Since the MSM has 'determined' that Obama is "Black" he is. I don't think that it should matter if he is speaking what the voter wants to hear. I like Guiliani on the republican side so far.

    I don't have a feel for him coming out of the community yet. (it has only been announced for a day) so I can't say how the community feels yet.

    I feel that skin color divides us right now.

  16. #16
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    He is not truely African American but he is classified as such (by the media)because of the color of his skin. It is not PC to say he is black.

    I think Obama can be more closley described as a minority. As such he would bring a dif. perspective to the WH. That might be a good thing maybe if someone LOOKED dif. and was a real candidate we would get half the country to vote ...probably not. :cool:

    I worry about his experiance but then again who in either party is truley qualified to be the leader of the free world??? I'm drawing a blank

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=LI2OH]He is not truely African American but he is classified as such (by the media)because of the color of his skin. It is not PC to say he is black.

    I think Obama can be more closley described as a minority. As such he would bring a dif. perspective to the WH. That might be a good thing maybe if someone LOOKED dif. and was a real candidate we would get half the country to vote ...probably not. :cool:

    I worry about his experiance but then again who in either party is truley qualified to be the leader of the free world??? I'm drawing a blank[/QUOTE]

    Out of curiosity, why is he a "minority"? What is it about being the son of a White Kansas Woman makes him a "minority"? And what "Minority" is he? Minority by itself is an insuficient descriptor.

    And more, I am a Scottish Born American. Am I a Minority? After all, Scottish Americans can't possably be the Majority in America, right? Should I refuse to accpt or sign anything that denotes me as "White", since I am more a pasty pale tan-reddish color? Should I demand all people refer to me as a Scottish American at all times. Interestingly, a man of Carribean decent also born in Scotland would equally be a Scottish-American if he moved here, but I guess to many ignorant people, if he was darker skinned and with the right complextion, he too would be called "African-American" in America.

    That is my point here, that these dividing lines are rediculous and arbitrary and counterproductive for any purpose other than division and racism. So why, knowing that, do we allow them to continue to exist in such a prominant role in our society?

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Warfish]Out of curiosity, why is he a "minority"? What is it about being the son of a White Kansas Woman makes him a "minority"? And what "Minority" is he? Minority by itself is an insuficient descriptor.

    And more, I am a Scottish Born American. Am I a Minority? After all, Scottish Americans can't possably be the Majority in America, right? Should I refuse to accpt or sign anything that denotes me as "White", since I am more a pasty pale tan-reddish color? Should I demand all people refer to me as a Scottish American at all times. Interestingly, a man of Carribean decent also born in Scotland would equally be a Scottish-American if he moved here, but I guess to many ignorant people, if he was darker skinned and with the right complextion, he too would be called "African-American" in America.

    That is my point here, that these dividing lines are rediculous and arbitrary and counterproductive for any purpose other than division and racism. So why, knowing that, do we allow them to continue to exist in such a prominant role in our society?[/QUOTE]

    I don't think that it is "us" per se. Whenyou look at the Jets they all look the same in Green and White.

    When you look at most other countries the people all look the same generally.

    When you look at the USA, we all look different. That is the beauty of America. We are all different. We the "United States". We allow other interest to divide us. Divide and conquer.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=LI2OH]He is not truely African American but he is classified as such (by the media)because of the color of his skin. It is not PC to say he is black.

    I think Obama can be more closley described as a minority. As such he would bring a dif. perspective to the WH. That might be a good thing maybe if someone LOOKED dif. and was a real candidate we would get half the country to vote ...probably not. :cool:

    I worry about his experiance but then again who in either party is truley qualified to be the leader of the free world??? I'm drawing a blank[/QUOTE]

    You can call me anything you like...cracker, honkey, white...I don't care...but I don't hear anything about "white" being PI. Until the double standard is lifted, I'll go with black and white.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=Warfish]Out of curiosity, why is he a "minority"? What is it about being the son of a White Kansas Woman makes him a "minority"? And what "Minority" is he? Minority by itself is an insuficient descriptor.

    And more, I am a Scottish Born American. Am I a Minority? After all, Scottish Americans can't possably be the Majority in America, right? Should I refuse to accpt or sign anything that denotes me as "White", since I am more a pasty pale tan-reddish color? Should I demand all people refer to me as a Scottish American at all times. Interestingly, a man of Carribean decent also born in Scotland would equally be a Scottish-American if he moved here, but I guess to many ignorant people, if he was darker skinned and with the right complextion, he too would be called "African-American" in America.

    That is my point here, that these dividing lines are rediculous and arbitrary and counterproductive for any purpose other than division and racism. So why, knowing that, do we allow them to continue to exist in such a prominant role in our society?[/QUOTE]

    Um yes according to the US Census 2000 if you were born in Scotland you are a minority.

    what makes Obama a minorty is his biracial heritage.

    you can call yourself anythig you want on all forms if you want to be asian on monday, white on tuesday and latino on wednesday no one is stoping you. you can also not fill those questions out on most forms.

    I don't think anyone demands to be called anything...I think most people demand [B]not[/B] to be called certain things. If you want people to call you poka dotted I don't see a problem with it.

    unfortunatly most of these labels are still needed because there are inequalities that still exist along those lines. I don't think Afirmative Actions is performing like it was suppose to but just like everythig else (welfare, Social security,.....) people just stick with what we got instead of biting the bullet, taking a risk and trying to change things.

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