Enjoy an Ads-Free Jets Insider - Become a Jets Insider VIP!
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: New Dem Senate Tries to Stifle Christian Vote

  1. #1
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,709
    Post Thanks / Like

    New Dem Senate Tries to Stifle Christian Vote

    There's a new senatie bill, S1, that is all about lobbying reform. On the surface this looks like a good idea. But the liberals, always the ones to champion freedoms and rights, have included a rider on the bill that any church, synaogogue or religious organization that informs their consituency of upcoming political actions can be called a lobby and have to register as such. Informing membership would constitute lobbying - presently, churches are not permitted to recommend a particular vote to their congregations as they would lose their tax exempt status (I think we all agre that is a fair rule.)

    This is a direct shot at several things:

    (1) Freedom as guaranteed in the first ammendment. This is so blatant even the ACLU is against this rider.
    (2) A direct shot at trying to limit the Christian vote, particularly in states like those in the South and Ohio where churches are huge and pastors keep their membership very informed.

  2. #2
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,407
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=JCnflies]There's a new senatie bill, S1, that is all about lobbying reform. On the surface this looks like a good idea. But the liberals, always the ones to champion freedoms and rights, have included a rider on the bill that any church, synaogogue or religious organization that informs their consituency of upcoming political actions can be called a lobby and have to register as such. Informing membership would constitute lobbying - presently, churches are not permitted to recommend a particular vote to their congregations as they would lose their tax exempt status (I think we all agre that is a fair rule.)

    This is a direct shot at several things:

    (1) Freedom as guaranteed in the first ammendment. This is so blatant even the ACLU is against this rider.
    (2) A direct shot at trying to limit the Christian vote, particularly in states like those in the South and Ohio where churches are huge and pastors keep their membership very informed.[/QUOTE]


    so what happens when people like hiel howard dean or john edwards gets up in front of a congregation to give a speech??

    another example of the progressive culture of hypocrisy:

    [url]http://www.jetsinsider.net/forums/showthread.php?t=136023[/url]

  3. #3
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    4,020
    Post Thanks / Like
    Do people regularly get their political info from church?

  4. #4
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,407
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=OrangeJet]Do people regularly get their political info from church?[/QUOTE]


    it was a major part of the civil rights movement in this country...

  5. #5
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Montville, NJ
    Posts
    5,473
    Post Thanks / Like
    I don't know the particulars of this part of S1, but I can see valid points on both sides of this argument


    if what you say is true, it should also apply to unions as well

  6. #6
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    6,828
    Post Thanks / Like
    I find it a tad scary that politicians can put into law something which states you cannot lobby for a particular politician. IF they want to do this, perhaps then they should not be able to accept millions of dollars in "donations" from corporations. Not that a politician would make decisions based on a contribution by the businesses he might have to make regulations against.... :confused:

  7. #7
    All League
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,744
    Post Thanks / Like
    The left knows whats right for us! LOL

  8. #8
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,179
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=JCnflies]There's a new senatie bill, S1, that is all about lobbying reform. On the surface this looks like a good idea. But the liberals, always the ones to champion freedoms and rights, have included a rider on the bill that any church, synaogogue or religious organization that informs their consituency of upcoming political actions can be called a lobby and have to register as such. Informing membership would constitute lobbying - presently, churches are not permitted to recommend a particular vote to their congregations as they would lose their tax exempt status (I think we all agre that is a fair rule.)

    This is a direct shot at several things:

    (1) Freedom as guaranteed in the first ammendment. This is so blatant even the ACLU is against this rider.
    (2) A direct shot at trying to limit the Christian vote, particularly in states like those in the South and Ohio where churches are huge and pastors keep their membership very informed.[/QUOTE]


    Just to throw it back. If a Rabbi, Pastor or any religous leader meets with elected officials and supports them with the implied support or none support of their flock aren't they in fact a lobby?

  9. #9
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,179
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=CanadaSteve]I find it a tad scary that politicians can put into law something which states you cannot lobby for a particular politician. IF they want to do this, perhaps then they should not be able to accept millions of dollars in "donations" from corporations. Not that a politician would make decisions based on a contribution by the businesses he might have to make regulations against.... :confused:[/QUOTE]

    They shouldn't be able to accept money from a Corporation or a Union or a Church. They also shouldn't allow Corporations, Unions or Church's paying for advertisments in favor of or oppossed to people running for office.

  10. #10
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,709
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs]They shouldn't be able to accept money from a Corporation or a Union or a Church. They also shouldn't allow Corporations, Unions or Church's paying for advertisments in favor of or oppossed to people running for office.[/QUOTE]

    I think the misunderstanding ghere is that at no time does any church endorse or give money to a candidate. There is no "lobbying" in the tradiutional sense of the word going on at all.

    Example: 2004 Presidentail Election. In an effort to get out the vote for Bush, the Republicans / Conservatives (thuogh Bush looks less Conservative by the week) get stae ammendments on the ballot for homosexual marraige in many states, including many of hte swing states like Ohio.

    A preacher is NOT allowed to tell the congregation how to vote. What he can do is remind the congregation of how important is to be involved in the political process and remind them that on the upcoiming ballot will be a statet referendum on gay marraige. By doing his, swing stats got great voter turnout for Bush and Bush won. Many churches, without ever stating how to vote, organized voter egistration and arranged for buses. Under the new law, for the preacher to even remind his congregation that there is in fact an upcoming election nad that they should exercise their constitutional right to vote, let alone help register to vote or arrange rides (again w/o ever saying how to vote), now the church would have to register as a lobby and be subject to entirely different laws.

    Naturally the Dems do this because they know that the Christians probably vote 3 or 4 to 1 conserrvative.

    So what wer have here is the liberals stomping all ove the Constitution to suppress the Christian vote. Yuo know it is bad when the ACLU sides with God!

  11. #11
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    21,943
    Post Thanks / Like
    Why don't the church's just pay taxes...I'm sure that if it is the true religion, God will make sure and provide plenty of money....right?

  12. #12
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    36,724
    Post Thanks / Like
    The point is that Churches enjoy a specific type of Tax-exempt status, and part of the responsabillity of being tax-exempt as a Church is NOT being political, not being a lobby or a venue for one political side or the other re: elections.

    Churches are quite free to be as aggressively political as they like......they simply have to give up their tax-exempt status, just like any other lobbying group.

    I don't see the issue here......

  13. #13
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    4,020
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=JCnflies]

    A preacher is NOT allowed to tell the congregation how to vote. What he can do is remind the congregation of how important is to be involved in the political process and remind them that on the upcoiming ballot will be a statet referendum on gay marraige. By doing his, swing stats got great voter turnout for Bush and Bush won. Many churches, without ever stating how to vote, organized voter egistration and arranged for buses. Under the new law, for the preacher to even remind his congregation that there is in fact an upcoming election nad that they should exercise their constitutional right to vote, let alone help register to vote or arrange rides (again w/o ever saying how to vote), now the church would have to register as a lobby and be subject to entirely different laws.
    [/QUOTE]

    Knowing the churches stance on gay marriage, and seeing how the churches mentioned that gay marriage is at stake in an upcoming vote, it seems they are cleverly finding a loophole. This situation you outlined above is borderline lobbying.

  14. #14
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,709
    Post Thanks / Like
    I disagree on two fronts:

    first, lobbyists try to influence those who make the laws, not those who vote. Churches aren't making any laws.

    second, the church istrying to do exactly what John Kerry did when Springsteen played some fre songs. Kerry people showed up with voter registration forms figuring that most of those present would vote Kerry's way.

    Constitutionally speaking, be it the church or Bruce, people are being asked to get involved in the political process. The issue us somehow being clouded. The stake is simple: can a church arrange voter registration and organize rides to vote.

    We all know, too, that Democratic activists have gone to jails, soup kitchens and other areas where they have strong holds on the vote as an attempt to organize their base. We all know the right to vote and the right to worship freely are guaranteed. So why, if a church is not endorsing a candidate, should it be penalized for simply helping the democratic process and getting out the vote?

  15. #15
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    4,020
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=JCnflies]So why, if a church is not endorsing a candidate, should it be penalized for simply helping the democratic process and getting out the vote?[/QUOTE]

    If a church is receiving money from their congregation, why shouldn't it be taxed?

  16. #16
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    36,724
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=JCnflies]I disagree on two fronts:

    first, lobbyists try to influence those who make the laws, not those who vote. Churches aren't making any laws.

    second, the church istrying to do exactly what John Kerry did when Springsteen played some fre songs. Kerry people showed up with voter registration forms figuring that most of those present would vote Kerry's way.

    Constitutionally speaking, be it the church or Bruce, people are being asked to get involved in the political process. The issue us somehow being clouded. The stake is simple: can a church arrange voter registration and organize rides to vote.

    We all know, too, that Democratic activists have gone to jails, soup kitchens and other areas where they have strong holds on the vote as an attempt to organize their base. We all know the right to vote and the right to worship freely are guaranteed. So why, if a church is not endorsing a candidate, should it be penalized for simply helping the democratic process and getting out the vote?[/QUOTE]

    Just because the Left does something, does not make it justified.

    ANY Tax-exempt Organization that gets involved in direct Political activity should lose their tax-exempt status, without exception. Left, right, makes no difference to me.

    Churches are not special in any way. If they want to be Political, thats FINE, really....just understand you will forfeit the special tax status granted to you for being a Non-Political Charity. Churches aren't tax exempt because they are Churches, or are Religious, they are Tax-Exampt because they are assumed to be non-political Charities.

    Frankly, I'd end tax-exempt status for Churches regardless, but thats just me......

  17. #17
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,709
    Post Thanks / Like
    Lobbyists and groups that tell people who to vote for are fundamentally different than a group that reminds people to vote nad registers them to vote.

    The good news is that the conservatives are expecting Bush to use the line item veto should this bill pass.

  18. #18
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    36,724
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=JCnflies]Lobbyists and groups that tell people who to vote for are fundamentally different than a group that reminds people to vote nad registers them to vote.

    The good news is that the conservatives are expecting Bush to use the line item veto should this bill pass.[/QUOTE]

    Uh....what line item veto? My understanding was that he (President) does not, and has not yet been given, the authority of a line item veto.

    Please correct me if I am wrong......

    As to your first coment, if all the Church said was "Go Vote, and Participate in Democracy" that is one thing. But you and I both know that is not what is said, and very specific agendas are being pushed by Churches.

    Which again is fine, just don't expect to be Tax Free.

  19. #19
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    4,020
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=JCnflies]Lobbyists and groups that tell people who to vote for are fundamentally different than a group that reminds people to vote nad registers them to vote.

    The good news is that the conservatives are expecting Bush to use the line item veto should this bill pass.[/QUOTE]

    Are you seriously trying to say the Church isn't trying to influence a vote when they load their congregation on a bus to an election, one that they had mentioned has a stake in gay marriage...which by the way, they preach about?

    That's like saying the Klan has no political motives if they loaded up a bus to an election where there was a black candidate.

  20. #20
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    6,890
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]it was a major part of the civil rights movement in this country...[/QUOTE]

    It still is in the South

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us