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Thread: Novak: Surge will fail, US deaths skyrocketing, pull out starts by 2008

  1. #1
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    Novak: Surge will fail, US deaths skyrocketing, pull out starts by 2008

    From the current ENPR:

    The early reports from Baghdad indicate the "surge" and new strategy (see below) [b]will not win the war[/b]. The expectation from all sides is that a troop removal will be underway in earnest by year's end, no matter who is winning the war.

    ...

    Iraq: The troop surge in Iraq is getting mixed results, but [b]so far most of the feedback is negative.[/b]

    The heightened U.S. troop presence, according to the top commanders, appears to be pushing the violence out of certain areas, but it has increased in others. Meanwhile, [b]U.S. troop deaths are skyrocketing[/b], with very little attention being paid to this fact at home. The first quarter of 2007 saw 244 deaths, far more than the same period last year. On April 10, the Pentagon reported 35 troop deaths in the first 10 days of this month. The grand total is approaching 3,300.


    Sen. John McCain's (R-Ariz.) recent ordeal in Iraq illustrates the political problem the war is posing for Republicans. McCain suffered an embarrassing political moment when he declared Baghdad safe before his trip there, only to tour a Baghdad neighborhood days later, escorted by a large military security contingent (including two helicopters) and wearing a bulletproof vest. Part of the precaution surely stems from his status as a presidential candidate, but the message was clear: [b]Iraq is not safe.[/b]


    McCain's attempt after a weak fundraising quarter to use the war as a positive political issue is perhaps the [b]greatest sign of the desperation the war causes.[/b] One might call it "the last refuge" for Republicans. One must be hurting badly in order to try to make support for the Iraq War an asset.


    McCain was forced to admit Sunday night that he had gone too far in declaring Baghdad "safe." But all of the top Republican contenders are supportive of President Bush on the Iraq War. The issue now divides even Republicans, with levels of support only in the 60 percent range among the party faithful. But by next year, the Republican presidential nominee will have to answer whether he believes, in retrospect, that the war was a good idea. If he cannot summon up a "no," or at least a "maybe not," then his general election chances will diminish significantly.




    Also re: GOP's chances in 2008:

    Democrats seem sure to hold the U.S. Senate in 2008, but Republicans have a realistic long-odds chance to retake the House. If Democrats take the presidency, Republicans will need to retake the House simply in order to maintain a toe-hold in the federal government.







    This coming from an uber-conservative such as Novak should really sink in with those of you who don't seem to "get it" and have been consistently wrong for 6 years and counting

  2. #2
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    Nice to see that even some far right conservatives can be realists in regards to this war.

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=parafly]Nice to see that even some far right conservatives can be realists in regards to this war.[/QUOTE]

    And coming around on the politics too:

    [QUOTE]Democrats seem sure to hold the U.S. Senate in 2008, but Republicans have a realistic long-odds chance to retake the House. If Democrats take the presidency, Republicans will need to retake the House simply in order to maintain a toe-hold in the federal government. [/QUOTE]

    How long are they going to stay in denial?

  4. #4
    Yeah, well, I think that's about all we can expect as of now.

    The troop surge was a big gamble. It was a noble effort, but really needed immediate results to work.

  5. #5
    this guy novak sounds like a commie to me

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=pauliec]Yeah, well, I think that's about all we can expect as of now.

    The troop surge was a big gamble. It was a noble effort, but really needed immediate results to work.[/QUOTE]


    Funny how the 'troop surge' proponents won't join the surge effort at the front.

    Gambling as long as 'other' people lose their lives and limbs. That's deplorable.
    Hardly noble at all. A total waste.

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=bitonti]this guy novak sounds like a commie to me[/QUOTE]

    pinko unpatriotic unamerican traitor for sure!

  8. #8
    Pull the troops back to Kuwait, let the Shia and Sunni's kill each other off and then march back in victorious. Either that move them to the borders of Iran and Syria and do the same!

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=pauliec]The troop surge was a big gamble. It was a noble effort, but really needed immediate results to work.[/QUOTE]

    I disagree. The surge was basically "stay the course" with a 15-20% increase in troop levels. A "big gamble" would have been to hand more of the responsibility of security over to the Iraqis, increase diplomacy in the region, and break Iraq up into Kurdistan, Sunniville, and Shialand. At the very least, it could have been a change in policy with a hope of success possible. Instead we are stuck with "same old, same old."

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=Tanginius]pinko unpatriotic unamerican traitor for sure![/QUOTE]

    And once again those on the 'left' were against the 'troop surge'.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg]How long are they going to stay in denial?[/QUOTE]

    Who is in denial?

    I've been saying for months now that the odds, as I see them, clearly favor a Democrat President in 2008. Matter of fact, I won't be suprised in the least if the Dems control House, Senate AND White House after the next election.

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg]Funny how the 'troop surge' proponents won't join the surge effort at the front.

    Gambling as long as 'other' people lose their lives and limbs. That's deplorable.
    Hardly noble at all. A total waste.[/QUOTE]


    I'm really, really, really tired of that argument. Really tired of it. Because I'm not a soldier, I have no right to make comments?

    Move on to something else, Jetdawgg. You're boring.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=parafly]I disagree. The surge was basically "stay the course" with a 15-20% increase in troop levels. A "big gamble" would have been to hand more of the responsibility of security over to the Iraqis, increase diplomacy in the region, and break Iraq up into Kurdistan, Sunniville, and Shialand. At the very least, it could have been a change in policy with a hope of success possible. Instead we are stuck with "same old, same old."[/QUOTE]


    Well, it had to have been drastic. It's really something that should have been implemented from the beginning -- a massive presence of American and British forces in Baghdad, while preserving the Iraqi army.

    But, whatever. That's not what happened. The war was very much so mismanaged and effed up.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=Warfish]Who is in denial?

    I've been saying for months now that the odds, as I see them, clearly favor a Democrat President in 2008. Matter of fact, I won't be suprised in the least if the Dems control House, Senate AND White House after the next election.[/QUOTE]


    Cool. I really don't like that as I prefer a mixed gov't but the republicans taking these hardline stances make it difficult for themselves

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=pauliec]I'm really, really, really tired of that argument. Really tired of it. Because I'm not a soldier, I have no right to make comments?

    Move on to something else, Jetdawgg. You're boring.[/QUOTE]

    You are calling for people to get killed or in the very least put their lives in danger. Your argument is harmful to our troops and Iraqi civilians.

    If my argument is only boring, I will take that any day, every day. Nobody is in danger for that. If anyone is in need of a position change it is you.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg]You are calling for people to get killed or in the very least put their lives in danger. Your argument is harmful to our troops and Iraqi civilians.

    If my argument is only boring, I will take that any day, every day. Nobody is in danger for that. If anyone is in need of a position change it is you.[/QUOTE]

    When someone signs up for the military, what the hell do you imagine the dangers are? It's not just a free education, with it comes an obligation and a very serious responsibility.

    Sometimes there are situations that require the action of our volunteer military. I have already defended my self personally as to why I didn't join up, and I refuse to do it again. I already said the surge hasn't worked and that we should and will probably be pulling out soon.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=pauliec]Well, it had to have been drastic. It's really something that should have been implemented from the beginning -- [B]a massive presence of American and British forces in Baghdad, while preserving the Iraqi army[/B].

    But, whatever. That's not what happened. The war was very much so mismanaged and effed up.[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you on that, Paulie. Gutting the entire infrastructure of the country and then counting on Iraqi goodwill and our troops to reinstate a working civil government was just a pipe dream from day one.

    The idea of a stable free Iraq was noble at that. But thanks to the freaking PNAC boneheads...Wolfowitz, Feith and Rumsfeld in particular, we were doomed from jump street. They let their own political ambitions cloud their judgement. Using a war to bolster popular support for a particular party while mixing it with corporate opportunism isn't the way to spread freedom around the globe. Nobody ever bothered to check to see if the crazies in Iraq were on the same page as us before we commenced the invasion. Pleasantries involving open arms, flowers and leg humping didn't jive to the reality on the ground. Ever.

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