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Thread: Sharia law vs. Western law--great read

  1. #1

    Sharia law vs. Western law--great read

    [B]Understanding Muslim extremism [/B]

    [QUOTE]Sharia law conflicts with Western law in several key areas. First, it considers blasphemy _ saying or writing negative things about Islam _ as a crime punishable by death. Since there are no blasphemy laws in the West (we fought for centuries to get rid of them), these conflicts are often presented as complaints about hate attacks on Islam. But their true nature should be clear: Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh paid with his life for crossing the line on blasphemy, and the Danish cartoonists who published cartoons about Mohammed are in hiding to avoid the same fate.

    A second area is apostasy, the 'crime' of abandoning a religion. A direct challenge to the very concept of freedom of religion, apostasy too is punishable by death under sharia law. Muslims are enjoined to do their best to spread Islam, but it is a one-way street _ no one can opt out. The impact of this is to stifle free speech and action among Muslims. Muslim extremists in the West may not be issuing death threats openly, but the underlying intimidation is there.

    Women's rights are a third area of conflict. American Muslim women may wear headscarves as a voluntary symbol of their religious devotion, but in many parts of the world women are harassed and assaulted if they do not cover themselves. Indeed, there are now places in Europe where non-Muslim women have begun to follow suit to avoid being molested.

    Beyond rules governing women's dress are broader restrictions on what women may do. The punishments for violating these rules are severe. Several years ago, the publication of an autobiography by a young French woman of Algerian descent finally lifted the taboo on discussing the use of gang rape in France to suppress Muslim women who showed too much independence.

    Moreover, Muslim women in Europe often pay with their lives in so-called honor killings carried out by other family members. Their crime: adopting a modern lifestyle or showing interest in a non-Muslim man.

    [/QUOTE]

    [URL=http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=EXTREMISM-04-03-07] the rest [/URL]

  2. #2
    they are primitive... and? we should bomb them and attempt to set up a friendly gov't?

    the late Kurt Vonnegut characterized the Bush administration as "upper-crust C-students who know no history or geography."

    he was right on target, RIP

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=bitonti]they are primitive... and? we should bomb them and attempt to set up a friendly gov't?

    the late Kurt Vonnegut characterized the Bush administration as "upper-crust C-students who know no history or geography."

    he was right on target, RIP[/QUOTE] :huh:

    Did you totally miss the author's point, or just letting your leftist ideology shine?

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=asuusa]:huh:

    Did you totally miss the author's point, or just letting your leftist ideology shine?[/QUOTE]

    im asking you for a point. Descibing sharia law is infomative, is there actually a point to this? what is your solution to the differences between our people and theirs?

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=bitonti]im asking you for a point. Descibing sharia law is infomative, is there actually a point to this? what is your solution to the differences between our people and theirs?[/QUOTE]


    The author made that quite clear:

    [QUOTE]So what can Americans do? First, we can inform ourselves about what is going on, in Europe and in our own communities. Second, we must defend our values. All those living here must abide by the Constitution and adhere to the rule of law. [/QUOTE]

    How come we don't hear the leftists condemning sharia law? How come the feminazis don't condemn islam like they did the Promise Keepers rallys?

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=asuusa]The author made that quite clear:



    How come we don't hear the leftists condemning sharia law? How come the feminazis don't condemn islam like they did the Promise Keepers rallys?[/QUOTE]


    Fair enough...should bombs be dropped on them and a way of life forced on them that they do not want? Is that any better?

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=CanadaSteve]Fair enough...should bombs be dropped on them and a way of life forced on them that they do not want? Is that any better?[/QUOTE]


    Where did you and bit read anything in the article about bombing anyone?

    The point of the article is recognizing that Islam is the antithesis of our constitutional freedoms and if we don't watch out, we can be experiencing what Europe is! Do you think muslim should be able to beat his wife just b/c it's OK in his religion?

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=asuusa]Do you think muslim should be able to beat his wife just b/c it's OK in his religion?[/QUOTE]


    Have you ever read the Old Testament?

  9. #9
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    The article is true to a certain extent.

    It is true the "Şeriat" is not compatible with modern western values and legal systems. But it is also true that some of the crimes attributed to "Şeriat" in that piece have more to do with ignorance.

    The "Holy Books" are all very open to interpertation and the Kuran is no exception. There are those who take whats written in it to extremes and those are the thorns in our collective asses. But in my opinion the real problem is that Islam has not experienced the reform that Christianism did.

    Peoples belief systems esspecially religios belief systems are hardest things to change and don't forget Christianism has about 600 years of head start over Islam. There are authors who believe the conflict in Iraq will spread over to many other Islamic or countries with predominantly muslim population and a struggle will take place between the reformists and the fundamentalists, which will not be very unlike to the wars fought between the protestants and the catholics.

    You guys probably aren't even aware of it but the Islamic extremists have done a lot more terrorising in Muslim countries with Secular governments such as Turkey, Egypt, Algeria, Pakistan, parts of Indonesia.

    On saturday there will be a huge march against religous fundamentalism and for the republican values in Turkey (It's amusing in Turkey the republicans are the left wing and the Liberals are the right :) ) Somewhere close to 1.5 million people are expected to attend.
    Last edited by The Turk; 04-13-2007 at 02:49 AM.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=The Turk]The article is true to a certain extent.

    It is true the "Şeriat" is not compatible with modern western values and legal systems. But it is also true that some of the crimes attributed to "Şeriat" in that piece have more to do with ignorance.

    The "Holy Books" are all very open to interpertation and the Kuran is no exception. There are those who take whats written in it to extremes and those are the thorns in our collective asses. But in my opinion the real problem is that Islam has not experienced the reform that Christianism did.

    Peoples belief systems esspecially religios belief systems are hardest things to change and don't forget Christianism has about 600 years of head start over Islam. There are authors who believe the conflict in Iraq will spread over to many other Islamic or countries with predominantly muslim population and a struggle will take place between the reformists and the fundamentalists, which will not be very unlike to the wars fought between the protestants and the catholics.

    You guys probably aren't even aware of it but the Islamic extremists have done a lot more terrorising in Muslim countries with Secular governments such as Turkey, Egypt, Algeria, Pakistan, parts of Indonesia.

    On saturday there will be a huge march against religous fundamentalism and for the republican values in Turkey (It's amusing in Turkey the republicans are the left wing and the Liberals are the right :) ) Somewhere close to 1.5 million people are expected to attend.[/QUOTE]

    That is bang on the mark as far as I'm concerned.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan]Have you ever read the Old Testament?[/QUOTE]

    Reference?

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=Black Death]That is bang on the mark as far as I'm concerned.[/QUOTE]

    Thank you BD and Paulie
    Last edited by The Turk; 04-13-2007 at 09:58 AM.

  13. #13
    I like how someone posts an article to further explain the deep-rooted cultural differences between Islamic fundamentalism and Western society, and what follows if knee-jerk reactions of, "Well then let's bomb them all! That will show them! I'm sure that will be right up the alley of the murdering Republicans in office!"

    Hey guys, relax. He posted an article pointing out some of the reasons and causes behind the most glaring differences of our two cultures. Nowhere was anyone advocating nuclear war.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=The Turk]The article is true to a certain extent.

    It is true the "Şeriat" is not compatible with modern western values and legal systems. But it is also true that some of the crimes attributed to "Şeriat" in that piece have more to do with ignorance.

    The "Holy Books" are all very open to interpertation and the Kuran is no exception. There are those who take whats written in it to extremes and those are the thorns in our collective asses. But in my opinion the real problem is that Islam has not experienced the reform that Christianism did.

    Peoples belief systems esspecially religios belief systems are hardest things to change and don't forget Christianism has about 600 years of head start over Islam. There are authors who believe the conflict in Iraq will spread over to many other Islamic or countries with predominantly muslim population and a struggle will take place between the reformists and the fundamentalists, which will not be very unlike to the wars fought between the protestants and the catholics.

    You guys probably aren't even aware of it but the Islamic extremists have done a lot more terrorising in Muslim countries with Secular governments such as Turkey, Egypt, Algeria, Pakistan, parts of Indonesia.

    On saturday there will be a huge march against religous fundamentalism and for the republican values in Turkey (It's amusing in Turkey the republicans are the left wing and the Liberals are the right :) ) Somewhere close to 1.5 million people are expected to attend.[/QUOTE]


    good post, Turk

  15. #15

    Dr. Homa Darabi Foundation

    [URL=http://www.homa.org/default.asp?TOCID=2083225444] More info [/url] from a Persian woman:

    [QUOTE]"The specific task of women in this society is to marry and bear children. They will be discouraged from entering legislative, judicial, or what ever careers which may require decision making, as women lack the intellectual ability and discerning judgment required for these careers." - Ayatollah Mutahari [/QUOTE]


    [QUOTE]“Evil omen is in the women, house and the horse." - Prophet Mohammed[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE]“I was standing at the edge of the fire (hell) and the majority of the people going in were women.” -Prophet Mohammed [/QUOTE]

  16. #16
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    These sayings that you've quoted are called "Hadis" , they are sayings which are not in the Kuran but they are followed by the fundamentalists nonethelss becuse they are attributed to Muhammed. However for most of these nobody can proove that these sayings were indeed Muhammed's. There are wild inconsistencies for example the Kuran calls Christians and Jews "peoples of the book" however a hadis says Jews are damned people. I mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that some of these were just unwelcomed contributions to the religion.

    The examples you gave and the continued belief in some of these was exactly the kind of ignorance I was referring to in my previous post.


    BTW just to clarify I am in no way defending anything that is being done in the name of any religion, I'm just trying to provide you guys another point of view.
    Last edited by The Turk; 04-13-2007 at 11:22 AM.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=The Turk]These sayings that you've quoted are called "Hadis" , they are sayings which are not in the Kuran but they are followed by the fundamentalists nonethelss becuse they are attributed to Muhammed. However for most of these nobody can proove that these sayings were indeed Muhammed's. There are wild inconsistencies for example the Kuran calls Christians and Jews "peoples of the book" however a hadis says Jews are damned people. I mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that some of these were just unwelcomed contributions to the religion.

    The examples you gave and the continued belief in some of these was exactly the kind of ignorance I was referring to in my previous post.


    BTW just to clarify I am in no way defending anything that is being done in the name of any religion, I'm just trying to provide you guys another point of view.[/QUOTE]


    I understand that radical Islamic fundamentalism is a far cry from true Islam that is taught in the Koran. In your experience living in the Middle East, what is the outcry like against radical Islam by normal, peace loving Muslims? Is there a prevalent voice in society in that regard?

  18. #18
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    Paulie I'll post your answer tomorrow with pictures.

  19. #19
    Turk--is this a valid description of Allah?

    [QUOTE]Who is Allah?

    The word Allah was derived from al-ilah which had become a generic title for whatever god was considered the highest god. Each Arab tribe used Allah to refer to its own particular high god. This is why Hubal, the Moon god, was the central focus of prayer at the Kabah and people prayed to Hubal using the name Allah. (Dr. Robert Morey; [url]http://www.cultbusters.com/allah.htm[/url])

    "Islam also owes the term "Allah" to the heathen Arabs. We have evidence that it entered into numerous personal names in Northern Arabia and among the Nabatians. It occurred among the Arabs of later times, in theophorous names and on its own."

    Ibn Warraq, Why I Am Not A Muslim,
    (Prometheus, Amherst, 1995) p. 42.

    The worship of the Moon-god "Suen" (also called Nanna or Asimbabbaar) was the most wide-spread religion in the Middle East (Hall, Mark. 1985, A Study of the Sumerian Moon-god, Nanna/Suen; University of PA)
    The symbol of this Moon-god was the crescent moon, and was constantly found on ancient pottery or artifacts of worship. Islam adopted the crescent moon as its religious symbol.
    In Mesopotamia the word "Suen" was transformed into the word "Sin" by the Sumerians as their favorite name for the Moon-god by the Sumerians (Austin Potts, 1971, The Hymns and Prayers To The Moon-god, Sin, Dropsie College, p. 2)
    The Old Testament rebuked the worship of the Moon-god (Deut. 4:19; 17:3; II Kings 21:3,5 etc.) because it often caused Israel to commit idolatry.
    While the name of the Moon-god was "Sin," his title was "al-ilah" meaning "the deity." "Ilah" is a generic Arabic word for "god" or "deity."
    "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God." (Coon, Carleton S.; 1944. Southern Arabia, Washington D.C.: Smithsonian, p. 398)
    The pre-Islamic Arabs shortened 'al-ilah' to Allah. They used 'Allah' in the names of their children. For instance, Muhammed's father and uncle had Allah as part of their names.
    "Similarly, under Muhammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allah, the Supreme Being." (Coon, p. 399)
    Mohammed never defined "Allah" in the Qur'an because he assumed that the pagan Arabs already knew who Allah was.
    Mohammed rejected all the deities of Ancient Arab such as Ilah's wives and daughters. But he kept the black stone which represented Allah.
    [/QUOTE]

    [URL=http://www.leaderu.org/wri/articles/islam-singh.html] source [/url]

  20. #20
    the article recommends "defending our values" it's not unfair to ask how the original poster believes is the best way to defend those values.

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