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Thread: Question for my Esteemed Posters

  1. #1

    Question for my Esteemed Posters

    If Israel was to come under attack by Syria, Iran and others what should the US do?
    1) Nothing
    2) Use our Armed Forces Army, Navy and Air Force.
    3) Provide Air Support for the Israeli Ground Troops

    I would say # 3, I dont want any US ground forces involved!

  2. #2
    JetsInsider.com Legend
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    Israel, like it or not, is a Treaty Allied Nation, one we are sworn to defend if attacked. By "attacked" I mean an unprovoked (i.e. Israel did not fire first or invade Syria/Iran/etc.) invastion or assult on Israel.

    Hence, we should use whatever force is needed to repel the attack.

    Now, if you don't LIKE the fact that we are a Allied Nation sworn to mutual defense, that's fine. But until we are not, we should live up to our word, and do what is needed.

    So my vote is #2.

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=Warfish]Israel, like it or not, is a Treaty Allied Nation, one we are sworn to defend if attacked. By "attacked" I mean an unprovoked (i.e. Israel did not fire first or invade Syria/Iran/etc.) invastion or assult on Israel.

    Hence, we should use whatever force is needed to repel the attack.

    Now, if you don't LIKE the fact that we are a Allied Nation sworn to mutual defense, that's fine. But until we are not, we should live up to our word, and do what is needed.

    So my vote is #2.[/QUOTE]
    :clapper:

    Took the words right out of my mouth.

  4. #4
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    4) Depends on the situation.

  5. #5
    If Israel was attacked and it was unprovoked, we absolutely should assist with whatever was necessary to help defend the country.

  6. #6
    it's a nice answer in theory

    in practice we couldn't do it

    the bulk of our ME forces are pre-occupied in Iraq

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=MnJetFan]If Israel was to come under attack by Syria, Iran and others what should the US do?
    1) Nothing
    2) Use our Armed Forces Army, Navy and Air Force.
    3) Provide Air Support for the Israeli Ground Troops

    I would say # 3, I dont want any US ground forces involved![/QUOTE]


    The reality is that this would never happen, because Israel --thanks in large part to U.S. aid-- has a far superior military to both of those states. They do not need air support from us, nor do they have any shortage of ground troops due to mandatory enlistment policies.

    What has already happened and will likely happen again is that Hezbollah --essentially a surrogate of Iran and Syria-- will attack Israel, not via an outright invasion, but through terror attacks.

    The best thing the U.S. can do for Israel is to persuade Iran and Syria that backing thugs like Hezbollah is not in its best interests. That will require both carrots and sticks -- and serious diplomacy.

  8. #8
    JetsInsider.com Legend
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola]The best thing the U.S. can do for Israel is to persuade Iran and Syria that backing thugs like Hezbollah is not in its best interests. That will require both carrots and sticks -- and serious diplomacy.[/QUOTE]

    What are your carrots? What sticks?

    And by "Serious Diplomacy", what do you mean specificly, i.e. what do you do?

    I ask because I am tired of the constant cry for more "diplomacy", when the average poster demanding it doesn;t seem to know what they mean, specificly, when the use it, much less how hard it is to use against extremists/dictatorial/fundamentalist states.

    Implication being that Bush and Co. does no Diplomacy whatsoever, which is false of course. What posters mean is they are not doing teh kind of "Give alot, take a little which we'll lose later anyway" Diplomacy we've historicaly done in the Region.

    You want to give Iran "Peaceful" Nuke Tech? In return for.....what? Staying out of Iraq (when they are not there "officially" anyway)? Not funding terrorism (which they can do without repurcussion)? Acknowledging Israel (as if that alone meant anything at all)? What then? How do you enforce your carrots, what stick are you using? War? Somehow I doubt it. Economic War, i.e. Starve the People while the Leaders Feast? More likely, but just as useless.

    People on this forum make it sound SO simple to convince Iran and it's Extremist Terrorism supporting Jew-Hating neioghbors to just be Friends. And many seem to think we can take these Nations at the word......after all, they are people just like us, right? Why would they lie? Or break their word?

    Personally, I find there to be far too much "Utopian Vision of Basic Goodness of Humanity" on this forum.

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Warfish]
    Personally, I find there to be far too much "Utopian Vision of Basic Goodness of Humanity" on this forum.[/QUOTE]

    yeah i agree - like when Bush and Cheney believed democracy would succeed in Iraq.

    you can't give democracy to animals and then act surprised when they elect other animals.

  10. #10
    Carrots=


    DEBKAfile Exclusive: Cairo bribes Hamas for Gaza ceasefire deal by releasing Sinai arms smuggling bosses

    June 4, 2007, 6:06 PM (GMT+02:00)


    Mussa Abu Marzuk - from Hamas Damascus HQ to Cairo


    The offer by Damascus-based Hamas operative Mussa Abu Marzuk of a one-year halt in missile attacks on Israel and hostilities against Fatah was bought by Egyptian intelligence minister Gen. Omar Suleiman at a heavy price, according to DEBKAfile’s military sources.

    Israel’s high command was shocked to learn that the four managers of the arms smuggling tunnel network recently jailed by Cairo are to be released. Four are Hamas and one Jihad Islami. Word has gone out to the Sinai-Gaza smuggling network that it is back in business after a very brief interruption and detention in Egypt is no real threat. The smuggling routes will be up and running again in no time including the central Philadelphi enclave route of southern Gaza which abuts on Sinai.

    The Cairo authorities dragged their feet for years before finally taking action against the Palestinians’ massive arms smuggling operations through Egyptian Sinai. Finally, in mid-May, Washington and Jerusalem were informed secretly that the five smuggler chiefs had been apprehended as proof that Cairo was clamping down on the illicit traffic. However, after three weeks in custody, the five bosses will be free on June 10, under the one-year truce deal Suleiman signed with Abu Marzuk. The Hamas leader made this a pre-condition for Egypt’s mediation mission to begin.

    It came on top of Hamas’ standing stipulation that Israel call off its counter-terror operations so that Hamas’ terror chiefs can come out of hiding and its West Bank suicide bomber cells run free of the IDF’s heavy hand.

    Israeli military sources told DEBKAfile that, for a very limited ceasefire, the Israeli army would be required to sit still for a whole year and watch Hamas and its radical allies pile up tons of smuggled war materiel in Gaza and then transfer quantities to the West Bank without interference.

  11. #11
    Things have changed in the Middle East since the last conflict. Iran has a massive army(possibly nuclear sooner then later) Syria. Lebanon has no army to stop the Syrians. I dont know if any dialogue will work now. Iran seems to be itching for a fight. Plus the Israeli President is in hot water himself!

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=Warfish]What are your carrots? What sticks?

    And by "Serious Diplomacy", what do you mean specificly, i.e. what do you do?

    I ask because I am tired of the constant cry for more "diplomacy", when the average poster demanding it doesn;t seem to know what they mean, specificly, when the use it, much less how hard it is to use against extremists/dictatorial/fundamentalist states.

    Implication being that Bush and Co. does no Diplomacy whatsoever, which is false of course. What posters mean is they are not doing teh kind of "Give alot, take a little which we'll lose later anyway" Diplomacy we've historicaly done in the Region.

    You want to give Iran "Peaceful" Nuke Tech? In return for.....what? Staying out of Iraq (when they are not there "officially" anyway)? Not funding terrorism (which they can do without repurcussion)? Acknowledging Israel (as if that alone meant anything at all)? What then? How do you enforce your carrots, what stick are you using? War? Somehow I doubt it. Economic War, i.e. Starve the People while the Leaders Feast? More likely, but just as useless.

    People on this forum make it sound SO simple to convince Iran and it's Extremist Terrorism supporting Jew-Hating neioghbors to just be Friends. And many seem to think we can take these Nations at the word......after all, they are people just like us, right? Why would they lie? Or break their word?

    Personally, I find there to be far too much "Utopian Vision of Basic Goodness of Humanity" on this forum.[/QUOTE]


    I didn't mean for this post to turn into my own Iranian policy preferences, but since you asked:

    Ahmenijad is very unpopular within Iran because of the poor economy there, which he had earlier pledged to fix. A lot of analysts see his nutty anti-Israel rhetoric as basically an attempt to change the subject from the economic problems he hasn't been able to fix.

    I think a strategy that promises significantly more U.S. investment should Iran abandon its nuclear ambitions --and threatens severe sanctions if it does not-- could work. It did with Libya.

    In any event we need to talk to Iran. They did work with us in Afghanistan at first, but relations went south when Shrub so brilliantly put them in the "Axis of Evil."

    Now talking may prove futile, and if that happens you do need a credible threat of force. Whether we still have one with so much of our forces tied down in the Iraqi quagmire is anyone's guess.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=nuu faaola]

    In any event we need to talk to Iran.[/QUOTE]
    Talk about what? Not taking hostages? Not pursuing nukes in defiance of the whole world? Not supplying "insurgents" who kill US troops?

    There's nothing to talk about, but believe me, the mullahs appreciate guys like you.

  14. #14
    "There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.”
    -Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, the most decorated Marine of all time, won the Medal of Honor twice

    I say if Americans want to support Israel, let them buy Israeli war bonds on their own money. Take the government out of the equation altogether.
    Last edited by JetsCrazey; 06-05-2007 at 12:48 AM.

  15. #15
    JetsInsider.com Legend
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    [QUOTE=JetsCrazey]"There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.”
    -Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, the most decorated Marine of all time, won the Medal of Honor twice

    I say if Americans want to support Israel, let them buy Israeli war bonds on their own money. Take the government out of the equation altogether.[/QUOTE]

    Wow, and I though I was Isolationist. :eek:

    You're right though, that whole WWII thing was such a racket. Then again we all know that the Democrats were actually behind Pearl Harbour. They just wanted to get more Money for their Millitary buddies, and Pearl was the way. A racket indeed.

    Oh, and if you havn't gotten it by now..... :rolleyes:

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=sackdance]Talk about what? Not taking hostages? Not pursuing nukes in defiance of the whole world? Not supplying "insurgents" who kill US troops?

    There's nothing to talk about, but believe me, the mullahs appreciate guys like you.[/QUOTE]


    Well, five years ago they were helping us in Afghanistan. After not talking to them and trashing them as evil, they've decided to help sabotage our misadventure in Iraq, continued to pursue Nukes, and have crushed the once promising pro-Democratic movement there.

    So I guess your philosophy is, "If it clearly doesn't work, keep doing it."

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Warfish]Israel, like it or not, is a Treaty Allied Nation, one we are sworn to defend if attacked. By "attacked" I mean an unprovoked (i.e. Israel did not fire first or invade Syria/Iran/etc.) invastion or assult on Israel.

    Hence, we should use whatever force is needed to repel the attack.

    Now, if you don't LIKE the fact that we are a Allied Nation sworn to mutual defense, that's fine. But until we are not, we should live up to our word, and do what is needed.

    So my vote is #2.[/QUOTE]


    How many Israeli troops helped in Afghanistan and Iraq?

    Quite frankly, I don't think Israel needs our help. We could learn alot about anti-terrorism from them. They probably watch the way we handle security in this country and wonder what the f*ck we are doing.

    And after the fiasco we have generated in Iraq...I'm sure the Israeli embassy would call us and say "No...that's OK guys. We got it."

  18. #18
    JetsInsider.com Legend
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan]How many Israeli troops helped in Afghanistan and Iraq?

    Quite frankly, I don't think Israel needs our help. We could learn alot about anti-terrorism from them. They probably watch the way we handle security in this country and wonder what the f*ck we are doing.

    And after the fiasco we have generated in Iraq...I'm sure the Israeli embassy would call us and say "No...that's OK guys. We got it."[/QUOTE]

    Apples and Oranges.

    One scenario is a Nation-State Invasion (conventional warfare) into Israel, which we are by-treaty required to help defend.

    The other was a Terrorist Organization one-time attack. While the Afgan Taliban supported AQ, they were not AQ.

    I get your point Plumber, I do. But the two situations are very different, when it comes to mutual defense req's.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=Warfish]Wow, and I though I was Isolationist. :eek:

    You're right though, that whole WWII thing was such a racket. Then again we all know that the Democrats were actually behind Pearl Harbour. They just wanted to get more Money for their Millitary buddies, and Pearl was the way. A racket indeed.

    Oh, and if you havn't gotten it by now..... :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]


    WWII was the result of American and British financiers such as Granddaddy Bush funding Hitler to power and facing no retribution for it because they owned our Government. Racket...with bad results because Hitler was a psycho. But the military suppliers sure made a killing off WWII.

    Check out this quote a full 7 years before Pearl Harbor took place:

    “Mr. Speaker, an immense amount of United States money has been used abroad in preparations for war and in the acquisition and the manufacture of war supplies…in the Asiatic interior huge stocks of munitions are said to be stored awaiting the day when the war lords of the United States will ship United States troops to Asia.
    “Mr. Speaker, the United States should look before it leaps into another war, especially a war in Asia. It should decide whether it is worth while to join hands with Russia and China in a war against Japan. For myself, I say and I have said it often that the United States should remember George Washington's advice. It should mind its own business and stay home. It should not permit the…international bankers to drive it into another war so that they and their…fronts and sycophants…reap rich profits on everything an army needs from toilet kits to airplanes, submarines, tanks gas masks, poison gas, ammunition, bayonets, guns, and other paraphernalia and instruments of destruction.”
    -Representative Louis T. McFadden, June 15, 1934, Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee from 1920-1931.

  20. #20
    JetsInsider.com Legend
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    Conspiracy Theory Isolationist. Gotcha.

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