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Thread: Can President Bush’s foreign policy still be this narrow minded and naive?

  1. #1
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    Can President Bush’s foreign policy still be this narrow minded and naive?

    CNN

    (CNN) -- U.S. President George W. Bush said Tuesday that Russia was not his country's enemy and had nothing to fear from U.S. plans for a Europe-based missile defense program.

    Ahead of a meeting with President Vladimir Putin, Bush attempted to allay Russian fears over the proposed missile shield saying it was meant to target "rogue nations" not escalate a new Cold War.

    "Russia's not our enemy," Bush said, adding that the missile defense shield is "a purely defensive measure aimed not at Russia but at true threats."

    Bush urged Russian cooperation with U.S. efforts to build a weapons system that would help "safeguard free nations against a missile attack launched from a rogue regime," inviting Putin to send military personnel and scientists to learn about the system.

    Bush is expected to meet with Putin Wednesday at the Group of Eight economic summit in Germany. He said he would urge his Russian counterpart to embrace the missile program.

    "My message will be, Vladimir -- I call him Vladimir -- that you shouldn't fear a missile defense system," Bush said. "As a matter of fact, why don't you cooperate with us ... Please send your generals over to see how such a system would work. Send your scientists, let us have the ability to discuss this issue in an open forum."

    "We'll be completely transparent," he added.

    Strained relations
    While the U.S. relationship with Russia is complex, Bush said the countries can work together to deal with mutual threats.

    But top Russian officials have sharply objected to the deployment of missile-defense technology in Europe.

    Putin has said the deployment threatens Russian territory and will "turn Europe into a powder keg and stuff it with new types of weapons."

    The leader raised the stakes over the weekend, warning that he may aim nuclear weapons at European targets unless Washington abandons its plans.

    "If this does not happen, then we will withdraw any responsibility for our retaliatory measures because it wasn't us who initiated a new round of arms race development in Europe," Putin said.

    Under the U.S. plan, elements of a missile-defense system still under development would be placed in European countries -- 10 missile interceptors in Poland and a radar system in the Czech Republic, according to a Reuters report. Both nations are former members of the Moscow-led Warsaw Pact and members of the U.S.-led NATO alliance.

    While the U.S. maintains the defense system is meant to target rogue states such as Iran and North Korea, Russian authorities have said they see the shield as a threat that warrants retaliation.

    The United States, meanwhile, has criticized Putin's government for cracking down on opposition. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice blasted Moscow's record on human rights and democracy Thursday, saying the freedoms of speech and the press are not "just a nuisance that the state can attack at will."

    Earlier, Iran's chief negotiator Ali Larijani denied the country is a threat to Europe or America.

    Bush and Putin are scheduled to meet Wednesday in the Baltic Sea resort of Heiligendamm, Germany and the dispute threatens to overshadow the G-8 conference.

    Speaking on Air Force One en route to Prague, top White House adviser Stephen Hadley noted that while the United States and Russia have a "complex relationship," they continue to have "common interests" such as battling terrorism and preventing the spread of weapons of mass destruction.

    But he added, "We've also talked about how there are no exceptions to the freedom agenda."

    The coming summit already has drawn thousands of protesters, many of whom clashed with police in the nearby city of Rostock over the weekend. Protest organizers said they will attempt to blockade the city's airport as Bush arrives Tuesday and will attempt to march to the summit site in Heiligendamm, about six miles away.
    ++++++++++++++

    Bush's logic is so stupid it is hard to believe.

    Was the Abrams Tank or the Apache Helicopter or the M-16 rifle specifically built for war with Iraq?

    No

    But were these weapons used in the fight with Iraq?

    Yes

    Therefore this European based missile defense system could be used against Russia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster
    Bush's logic is so stupid it is hard to believe.

    Was the Abrams Tank or the Apache Helicopter or the M-16 rifle specifically built for war with Iraq?

    No

    But were these weapons used in the fight with Iraq?

    Yes

    Therefore this European based missile defense system could be used against Russia.
    Ummm....it's a missile defense system...unless of course you think that we're so disingenuous that we're lying, and no one in this country can keep a secret (of our own volition or from foreign agents).

    I have multiple firearms in my home for my and my families defense...do you feel threatened?

    I hear Bush inviting the Russians to the table to participate in the program, but only reticence on the part of the Russians...why? Think about it.

    I'm getting tired of Americans that display a continual knee-jerk reaction that we are always the bad guys....always the one's picking the fight regardless even if what we are doing is purely defensive. What is it with you?
    Last edited by Greenwave81; 06-05-2007 at 11:02 AM.

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    My point was:

    If Russia's nuclear deterrence is negated then they are open to a invasion using conventional forces.

    If you look it up, Russia has been invaded a couple of times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwave81
    Ummm....it's a missile defense system...unless of course you think that we're so disingenuous that we're lying, and no one in this country can keep a secret (of our own volition or from foreign agents).

    I have multiple firearms in my home for my and my families defense...do you feel threatened?

    I hear Bush inviting the Russians to the table to participate in the program, but only reticence on the part of the Russians...why? Think about it.

    I'm getting tired of Americans that display a continual knee-jerk reaction that we are always the bad guys....always the one's picking the fight regardless even if what we are doing is purely defensive. What is it with you?
    and the question begs to be asked- are liberals still so narrow minded and naive that they can't think things through when they hear the name of President Bush??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY
    and the question begs to be asked- are liberals still so narrow minded and naive that they can't think things through when they hear the name of President Bush??
    Yes. but be fair Bush brought it upon himself through years of poor performance.

    it's not like people are wrong about Bush and the job he has done. the guy is an embarassment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster
    ++++++++++++++

    Bush's logic is so stupid it is hard to believe.

    Was the Abrams Tank or the Apache Helicopter or the M-16 rifle specifically built for war with Iraq?

    No

    But were these weapons used in the fight with Iraq?

    Yes

    Therefore this European based missile defense system could be used against Russia.
    And I have to wonder....are YOU really that naive?

    Of course any weapon system COULD be used anywhere, so what? Russia does not dictate American invention or innovation in the arena of Millitary hardware and defensive purposes.

    What? If we invented Star-Trek like Shields tomorrow, would you refuse to build/use them because North Korea thinks they could be used against them? Of course not.

    Bush did exactly what he needed to (a rarety for him), he came out stongly and said Russia isn't the purpose, sorry if you feel you are, but you're not. It's a defense for us, period, end of story.

    And I personally support ANY and EVERY defensive measure we can get. Fact I hope someone is getting cracking on those Energy Shields right about now too.

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    Missile Defense Shields are for protectionists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish
    And I have to wonder....are YOU really that naive?

    Of course any weapon system COULD be used anywhere, so what? Russia does not dictate American invention or innovation in the arena of Millitary hardware and defensive purposes.

    What? If we invented Star-Trek like Shields tomorrow, would you refuse to build/use them because North Korea thinks they could be used against them? Of course not.

    Bush did exactly what he needed to (a rarety for him), he came out stongly and said Russia isn't the purpose, sorry if you feel you are, but you're not. It's a defense for us, period, end of story.

    And I personally support ANY and EVERY defensive measure we can get. Fact I hope someone is getting cracking on those Energy Shields right about now too.

    Of course we should do what is in our best interest, we always have and always will but:

    Bush acts like he does not understand the Russians point on missile defense.

    Is he that stupid?

    Does he not see their reason for concern?

    Does his state department not know they will be upset?

    Is he not briefed by the State department that Russia might be upset?

    Didn’t Russia complain when some eastern block countries joined NATO?

    Don’t we have treaties with them that we should honor?

    Does he think this won’t start another arms race?

    Does he not care that this will start another arms race?

    If this grows into another race is it needed?

    Did he not get indications of this when he sold nuclear tech to India?

    Will selling nuclear fuel to India start another arms race between China and India?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwave81
    Ummm....it's a missile defense system...unless of course you think that we're so disingenuous that we're lying, and no one in this country can keep a secret (of our own volition or from foreign agents).

    I have multiple firearms in my home for my and my families defense...do you feel threatened?

    I hear Bush inviting the Russians to the table to participate in the program, but only reticence on the part of the Russians...why? Think about it.

    I'm getting tired of Americans that display a continual knee-jerk reaction that we are always the bad guys....always the one's picking the fight regardless even if what we are doing is purely defensive. What is it with you?
    here is an analogy...
    We are neighbors. I install something in my house that nullifies the operation of your "multiple firearms" but it did not nullify the the operation of my "multiple firearms", how safe would you and your family feel?

    and as for what is with me, I just wanna grow old and be happy. As for the USA we have recently "picked a fight", that we justified as purely defensive.

    look it up, it is in almost all of the newspapers.

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    Actually, Putins response to this policy was puzzling. If the US continues to build nucular (isnt this how Bush says it) defense sytems in E Europe, he will point his nucular missles towards Europe. Makes perfect sense to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster
    here is an analogy...
    We are neighbors. I install something in my house that nullifies the operation of your "multiple firearms" but it did not nullify the the operation of my "multiple firearms", how safe would you and your family feel?

    and as for what is with me, I just wanna grow old and be happy. As for the USA we have recently "picked a fight", that we justified as purely defensive.

    look it up, it is in almost all of the newspapers.
    Your analogy is meaningless....since we are talking about defensive weapons.

    You just want to grow old and be 'happy', huh? What, do you have a god-given right to live like you do?

    I'm glad most Americans throughout history have understood that freedom needs to be defended. I'm sure those 3000+ Americans incinerated in the WTC wanted to grow old and be 'happy' too...sometimes it doesn't work out the way we want.

    I got kids that I want to experience the American way of life (even though we are moving to a bastardized version of it all too quickly). Either we fight where the intellignece leads us now against the forces wanting to do us harm or the next generation will have too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwave81
    Your analogy is meaningless....since we are talking about defensive weapons.

    You don't consider a machine that would stop firearms from working to be defensive?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster
    You don't consider a machine that would stop firearms from working to be defensive?
    Since I don't plan on bringing firearms into your house to do you harm, I couldn't care less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwave81
    Since I don't plan on bringing firearms into your house to do you harm, I couldn't care less.
    And if I wanted to steal your POP tarts and your Carl Barzilauskas home Jersey?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster
    And if I wanted to steal your POP tarts and your Carl Barzilauskas home Jersey?
    Well, then that would assume you have 'evil' on your mind (not that I understand how you are going to steal my sh*t with defensive weapons without a fight) which is not the case here....

    Unless of course, like any loony liberal you always assume that America is a 'bad man' and has evil intent...which is what I stated you thought earlier.

    We've gone full circle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwave81
    Well, then that would assume you have 'evil' on your mind (not that I understand how you are going to steal my sh*t with defensive weapons without a fight) which is not the case here....

    Unless of course, like any loony liberal you always assume that America is a 'bad man' and has evil intent...which is what I stated you thought earlier.

    We've gone full circle.

    WOW. I must’ve confused you with the analogies. I am truly sorry

    Let me boil this down:

    Russia fears this new system will make a great deal of its military less effective. Therefore it fears its neighbors could invade and steal their sh!t.

    Whether these fears are rational or are not Russia will act. Therefore the likely course of action is more nukes to overwhelm the missile defense shield.


    Also Russia has a history of bullying its neighbors (reference this winters gas embargo) and must expect retaliation in kind if these neighbors become strong.

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    High priest of holocaust,fire from the sea
    Nuclear winter spreading disease
    The day of final conflict
    All pay the price
    The third world war
    Rapes peace,takes life
    Back to the start,talk of the part
    When the earth was cold as ice
    Total dismay as the sun passed away
    And the days where black as night

    Eradication of earths
    Population loves polaris

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan
    High priest of holocaust,fire from the sea
    Nuclear winter spreading disease
    The day of final conflict
    All pay the price
    The third world war
    Rapes peace,takes life
    Back to the start,talk of the part
    When the earth was cold as ice
    Total dismay as the sun passed away
    And the days where black as night

    Eradication of earths
    Population loves polaris
    Are you actually posting Dave Mustaines childish scribling? Lol, Peace Sells, But BUSH ISN'T BUYING!!! Hello me, it's me again.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster
    WOW. I must’ve confused you with the analogies. I am truly sorry
    No need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buster
    Let me boil this down:

    Russia fears this new system will make a great deal of its military less effective.
    Therefore less likely to invade/attack another neighbor? Sounds like a 'win' to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buster
    Therefore it fears its neighbors could invade and steal their sh!t.
    How does a smaller country like Czechoslovakia's having a defensive missile system make it more likely to invade/attack Russia? That system isn't going to stop the Russian army as it pours over the border.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buster
    Whether these fears are rational or are not Russia will act.
    A 60's rehash or revisit of a fear that never materialized. The kids in the Czech Republic might have to learn the Civil Defense Drill of getting underneath their desk and kissing their ass goodbye if they don't get this defensive missile system in place...who wnats to see that? I'm still scarred.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buster
    Therefore the likely course of action is more nukes to overwhelm the missile defense shield.
    Warn us before the re-runs start...we've seen this play out before and I'll tell you how it goes:

    The Russians cannot compete with pro-western societies economically or militarily in an arms race.

    Their economy is as much of a joke as it is corrupt. Their technology is inferior. Their infrastructure is a shambles. The lifespan of an average Russian male barely cracks 50 due to AIDS, alcoholism and drug use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buster
    Also Russia has a history of bullying its neighbors (reference this winters gas embargo) and must expect retaliation in kind if these neighbors become strong.
    All the more reason to give/sell a pro-western values country like the new-founded Czech's the technology to defend themselves against aggressors. Czechoslovakia at this point in time is the shining star of the region...it's economy is booming, people are free and the government is restrained and stable. They are out-Americaning the Americans in that regard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwave81
    All the more reason to give/sell a pro-western values country like the new-founded Czech's the technology to defend themselves against aggressors.

    Exactly. And when we leave Iraq, we should give them our most up to date state of the art missile defense system. We should give them a system that not only protects against ICBM's but also against low-flying ship launched missiles. While we are at it, we should also build them a couple of nuclear attack subs with which to patrol the Persian Gulf...that way we don't have to.

    What's the worse that can happen?

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