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Thread: Obama: My "advantaged" daughters shouldn't benefit from affirmative action

  1. #1
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    Obama: My "advantaged" daughters shouldn't benefit from affirmative action

    Obama wants to shift affirmative action from race-based to economic-based. I find it hard to argue with his reasoning when he uses his own daughters as an example.

    Anyhow, I'd like to hear what those around here who argue he has no appeal across party lines think of this idea....

    ________

    Editorial from today's Chicago Tribune...

    [url]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0609edit2jun09,0,2481149.story?coll=chi-newsopinion-hed[/url]

    Editorial

    Obama and racial preferences


    June 9, 2007

    Put yourself in the shoes of a college admissions officer in another decade or so. You come across an application with a familiar name. It's one of Barack Obama's daughters.

    How would you assess her? Should she have an advantage over other applicants because she's black? Her father has left instructions.

    In a recent ABC television interview, Obama said his two daughters "should probably be treated by any admissions officer as folks who are pretty advantaged." In the same interview, Obama said that affirmative action should become "a diminishing tool for us to achieve racial equality in this society."

    His acknowledgment of some discomfort with race-based preferences could spark a pretty interesting debate in the presidential campaign.

    Obama's observation about his kids shows a keen grasp of the obvious. He is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School. His wife is a graduate of Princeton and Harvard Law. Their legacy status alone would bring advantages to their offspring at admissions to those elite schools. But Obama quite rightly sees a larger purpose for diversity efforts than to bring more privileges to the privileged.

    "I think that we should take into account white kids who have been disadvantaged and been brought up in poverty and shown themselves to have what it takes to succeed," he said in the interview. He added: "There are a lot of African-American kids who are still struggling."

    Recent studies show that, while selective colleges may grant minority students an edge based on race, almost no advantage is given to students because they have had to overcome socioeconomic obstacles to qualify for admission. A Century Foundation study, for example, found that only 3 percent of students at the nation's top 146 colleges came from families that earned $35,000 or less a year -- 74 percent came from families that had incomes of $95,000 or above. A report conducted for the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation found that only 6 percent of students at the 19 elite colleges it surveyed were the first in their families to attend college.

    In a Tribune interview in October 2004, Obama called economic diversity in college admissions, as well as ethnic diversity, "a compelling national interest."

    It "has to be done in a way that is not a back-door use of quotas," he said, "and takes into account the full record of the students, not just race and test scores." In his book "The Audacity of Hope," he noted that supporting economic opportunity for all low-income people, regardless of race, can draw broader political support than a push for race-specific advantages.

    Obama's comments are not far from the direction in which Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy were moving in their final days. Each tried to expand the civil rights movement's energies into a fight for better living conditions and economic opportunities for low-income families of all races. Obama would likely find broad support if he made this issue his own.

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    sure this is what he want...of course what was he saying previously???


    [QUOTE]Affirmative Action - Candidate Comparison

    Barack Obama - "I want to make sure that today’s decision upholding affirmative action remains in force, and that the doors of opportunity remain open to all those who make up our nation.”

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Barack Obama - “This administration sought to slam the doors of higher education in the face of African Americans and other minorities. It’s a sad day for the cause of equal opportunity when the President of the United States, the land of opportunity, calls for the Supreme Court to rule against policies that seek to open institutions for historically excluded racial minorities,”[/QUOTE]

    [url]http://www.ilsenate.com/issuesmatchup.asp?IssueID=20[/url]

    no mention of underprivilaged here....exclusively race based....

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    Obama has great ideas and this is another one of them.

    I hope that whoever gets in can implement a program much like he states here. Makes a lot of sense for America

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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]sure this is what he want...of course what was he saying previously???




    [url]http://www.ilsenate.com/issuesmatchup.asp?IssueID=20[/url]

    no mention of underprivilaged here....exclusively race based....[/QUOTE]


    He wasn't particularly advantaged growing up. Now he is. He is the first to admit he benefitted from AA, and now his family doesn't need it any more. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

    Also, this editorial --from a conservative editorial page that has never endorsed a Democrat in its 155-year history, I might add-- is citing a fairly recent interview with ABC. Not sure if this is a change in his position or just more detail than he's previously espoused on this issue. (I have heard him talk about wanting to create programs that focus more on class than race in the past, however, so my hunch is the latter.)

    CBTNY, what do you think of the position he takes in the ABC/Tribune interview referenced in the Tribune editorial? Do you agree with that? Why or why not?

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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg]Obama has great ideas and this is another one of them.

    I hope that whoever gets in can implement a program much like he states here. Makes a lot of sense for America[/QUOTE]

    It is a great idea. And his background makes him the only major candidate who could probably sell a liberal base on this.

    The politics are also brilliant. This will play exceptionally well with the middle class, suburban voting blocs that are so crucial in elections.

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    Race in America is becoming less of an issue. This administration has seen to it that class is more important than race.

    Race comes into play if you cross the border now

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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]sure this is what he want...of course what was he saying previously???




    [url]http://www.ilsenate.com/issuesmatchup.asp?IssueID=20[/url]

    no mention of underprivilaged here....exclusively race based....[/QUOTE]


    First, that;s almost four years ago now. Second, it's not really contradictory, because a class-based AA will still disproportionately aid minorities because they are disproportionately poor and lower-class.

    I think what Obama is doing is refining his position, not changing it, to make it more fair.

    He's become quite wealthy since then and may have a different perspective.

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    Everything should be merit based.

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    [QUOTE=WJGC]Everything should be merit based.[/QUOTE]

    But how do you define "merit"? In sports, for instance, "degree of difficulty" counts.

    Doesn't someone who comes from the ghetto and all the obstacles that represents, and graduates high school with a 3.5 GPA and 1150 SATs, have at least as much merit as some pampered suburban rich kid with every advantage who has a 3.6 and an 1160?

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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola]First, that;s almost four years ago now. Second, it's not really contradictory, because a class-based AA will still disproportionately aid minorities because they are disproportionately poor and lower-class.

    I think what Obama is doing is refining his position, not changing it, to make it more fair.

    He's become quite wealthy since then and may have a different perspective.[/QUOTE]

    four years ago he was pandering to the inner cities in Illinois, as he needed thier vote to win a senate seat....now he's changed his tune and is pandering to white people to say, "hey- even though I campainged that affirmative action was basically to protect racial minorities a few years ago I now say the hell with with that...it's for the underprivilaged!"

    no different than hillary pandering to Christians last week....

    face the facts- and this is something that will be brought out depending who the candidates are....any white person who said affirmative action was not working or should be changed was labeled a bigot- ditto for any black person who publically said the same, though the deragatory terms used against those people were much worse, yet accepted...

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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola]But how do you define "merit"? In sports, for instance, "degree of difficulty" counts.

    Doesn't someone who comes from the ghetto and all the obstacles that represents, and graduates high school with a 3.5 GPA and 1150 SATs, have at least as much merit as some pampered suburban rich kid with every advantage who has a 3.6 and an 1160?[/QUOTE]

    So the so called pampered surburban kid should be overlooked because he or she lives in surburbia! BTW I can read between lines!

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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan]So the so called pampered surburban kid should be overlooked because he or she lives in surburbia! BTW I can read between lines![/QUOTE]

    Exactly. The kids from suburbia can't help the fact that they were born and brought into their "privileged" neighborhood any more than the poor kid from inner city can help being born and raised in a less "privileged" neighborhood.

    Why should the either be given a "leg up" over the other? Remember it is still the KID looking to gain entry...

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    Suburban white kids are retards and should be given help...

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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan]So the so called pampered surburban kid should be overlooked because he or she lives in surburbia! BTW I can read between lines![/QUOTE]


    No, they should not be overlooked. But if all that separates a kid who could afford fancy tutoring from a kid who grew up in the ghetto is a few test-score points, it makes you wonder.

    If you have every advantage, you should be able to separate yourself from someone with no advantages.

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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]four years ago he was pandering to the inner cities in Illinois, as he needed thier vote to win a senate seat....now he's changed his tune and is pandering to white people to say, "hey- even though I campainged that affirmative action was basically to protect racial minorities a few years ago I now say the hell with with that...it's for the underprivilaged!"

    no different than hillary pandering to Christians last week....

    face the facts- and this is something that will be brought out depending who the candidates are....any white person who said affirmative action was not working or should be changed was labeled a bigot- ditto for any black person who publically said the same, though the deragatory terms used against those people were much worse, yet accepted...[/QUOTE]

    CBTNY,

    Your support of Mitt Romney makes it clear how offended you are by pandering (which I do not believe this is, seeing as it is a contrary, unpopular opinion in a Democratic primary where voters --and the other major candidates-- widely support affirmative action as is, as you know).

    That said, you still have not answered my question: Do you think Obama's idea of shifting affirmative action to class-based from race-based is a good idea and an improvement over the current system?

    I want to see if you can type "I agree with a Democrat" without your head exploding.

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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola]CBTNY,

    Your support of Mitt Romney makes it clear how offended you are by pandering (which I do not believe this is, seeing as it is a contrary, unpopular opinion in a Democratic primary where voters --and the other major candidates-- widely support affirmative action as is, as you know).

    That said, you still have not answered my question: Do you think Obama's idea of shifting affirmative action to class-based from race-based is a good idea and an improvement over the current system?

    I want to see if you can type "I agree with a Democrat" without your head exploding.[/QUOTE]


    My support of Mitt Romney??? I like Romney but where have I vowed support for him??

    as far as obama's pandering- any shift in affirmative action is better than the present system....

    of course actually saying you want to do something about it then actually having the balls to carry it out (ala Rudy Guiliani and workfare and welfare reform, which has a much greater impact on the lives of ordinary Americans then AA) is night and day

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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola]But how do you define "merit"? In sports, for instance, "degree of difficulty" counts.

    Doesn't someone who comes from the ghetto and all the obstacles that represents, and graduates high school with a 3.5 GPA and 1150 SATs, have at least as much merit as some pampered suburban rich kid with every advantage who has a 3.6 and an 1160?[/QUOTE]

    Do you really think life is as simple as all this? That all you need to be "Fair" is this? Laughable.

    Unless you're planning on going deep, and I mean DEEP, into every circumstance in a person's life, you cannot just devide the world into "Ghetto" and "Rich Suburbs". I know, I went to a VERY wealthy area school, but my parents made lower lower middle class at best. No, not ghetto, but sure as **** not what any "School average" would have found.

    And as I have comaplined before, I was refused entry to my school of choice, while richer Black Students from my school, with worse grades and scores, got in. And I will never ever agree that that was "fair" in any form whatsoever. This comparison is especially apt, as Slavery in not a factor, both my and one firends family come to the USA well after Slavery, he was rich and black, I was poor and white. I beat him and he got in, I didn't.

    And whats pathetic IMO is that teh answer from the left on this is "eh, too bad, not an issue". It isn't fairness you want.

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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola

    In his book "The Audacity of Hope," he noted that supporting economic opportunity for all low-income people, regardless of race, can draw broader political support than a push for race-specific advantages.
    QUOTE]

    This is all that this is about right here, just a way to get more votes. Obama's not dumb, he knows playing the jealousy/class warfare card is broader reaching than the race card. To answer your question though, no I don't agree with him at all. Life's not fair, get over it.

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    [QUOTE=Warfish]

    And as I have comaplined before, I was refused entry to my school of choice, while richer Black Students from my school, with worse grades and scores, got in. And I will never ever agree that that was "fair" in any form whatsoever. This comparison is especially apt, as Slavery in not a factor, both my and one firends family come to the USA well after Slavery, he was rich and black, I was poor and white. I beat him and he got in, I didn't.

    And whats pathetic IMO is that teh answer from the left on this is "eh, too bad, not an issue". It isn't fairness you want.[/QUOTE]

    The circumstance you describe --the rich black kid benefitting from AA-- is what Obama is now looking to eliminate. To him, if you find his new position believable, it is an issue.

    I think you may agree with him.

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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]My support of Mitt Romney??? I like Romney but where have I vowed support for him??

    as far as obama's pandering- any shift in affirmative action is better than the present system....

    of course actually saying you want to do something about it then actually having the balls to carry it out (ala Rudy Guiliani and workfare and welfare reform, which has a much greater impact on the lives of ordinary Americans then AA) is night and day[/QUOTE]

    In an earlier thread you said you liked Romney but didn't think he would win.

    Post 13 in this thread:

    [url]http://www.jetsinsider.net/forums/showthread.php?t=145047[/url]

    In any event, Obama is running for president saying he'll do something about it. He hasn't had an opportunity to act on it yet.

    Also, you have a funny definition of pandering: It usually involves switching an unpopular position to a popular one (Romney on gay rights, for insance). In the context of the Democratic primary, Obama's original position was more popular than the one he has apparently shifted it to, although as WJGC found in his book, the shift isn't as recent as the editorial I posted earlier seemed to think it was.

    I'm glad to read that you view his position as an improvement over the current system.

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