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Thread: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

  1. #1
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    Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    [QUOTE][B]Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
    By Chris Demorro
    Staff Writer[/B]

    The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
    Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

    The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

    You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

    However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

    Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

    The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

    “The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

    All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

    Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

    When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

    Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

    The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

    So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

    One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
    [/QUOTE]

    [url]http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188[/url]

    as was the case when glaicers we thickening, etc, I fully expect some enviromental lunatic to try and make chicken salad out of this chicken sh!t....

  2. #2
    Here is a follow up article by Chris Demorro, who is a journalism student at
    Central Connecticut State University.
    I guess you do not listen to Rush, yea right.

    [QUOTE]March 28, 2007
    Prius Still Not Sitting Pretty
    By Chris Demorro
    Staff Writer

    There has been quite a bit of debate regarding an opinion piece of mine entitled, “Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage.” To be honest, I couldn’t be happier with the result. I managed to get people talking about a serious issue, which I believe does not get nearly enough attention.
    I am of course talking about the future of automotive energy consumption. Over the past two weeks, I have seen my name splashed across hundreds of forums, read on live radio and even discussed within earshot of myself.

    Along those lines, in the interest of fair and balanced journalism, it should be noted that the CNW Marketing research “Dust to Dust,” which I cited in my article, is dubious at best. Much of the debate has centered on the lifetime mileage of the Prius versus the Hummer. The average expected lifespan for a Prius, according to the report, was 100,000 miles when, in reality, the Prius is offered in several states with a warranty up to 150,000 miles alone.

    [B]There was also a great deal of debate regarding just which Hummer was used in the CNW report. It was the original Hummer, not the H2 or H3, which may clear up the 300,000 mile lifespan expected from a Hummer. However, there are enough holes as large as this throughout the CNW report to question its objectivity. [/B]

    That being said, there is still fairly substantial evidence that hybrids are not nearly as efficient; nor are they as environmentally sound as one may think. There are many cleaner, faster and sleeker alternatives out there waiting to be picked up. Cars such as the Tesla Roadster, for sale now at teslamotors. com, which is an entirely electric car that can journey up to 250 miles on a single battery charge, as well as sprinting from 0-60mph in a blistering four seconds. And to top it all off, it is available for about $30,000 if you opt to wait, rather then pay an additional $20,000 to receive the next one available. The Tesla is just one of the many options available right now and will hopefully garner more attention in the future.

    Unfortunately many of these options go largely unnoticed simply because they don’t come from a major auto manufacturer. This is a large part of why I wrote the article in the first place: I believe hybrids are not going to solve our imminent energy crisis, and focusing on a platform that still requires petrol in any amount is ultimately a band-aid for what could become a mortal wound. But this is what many manufacturers are offering to us; half-assed solutions to a real problem that will affect everyone the world over.[B] But if people are kept in the dark regarding alternatives to oil and hybrids, then by the time real alternatives are available, we may have dug ourselves an oil-lined grave. [/B]
    Debate, discussion and research are the key to preventing this, and, as a journalism student, I know that I have a long way to go before considering myself an objective, balanced and eloquent journalist. That is why I am attending college, and why I have never projected myself as anything but a student. But I also feel as though I have provoked a lot of thinking outside the traditional schools of thought, and that is what I ultimately aim for.

    [B]So these are my beliefs. I wrote them down for a college newspaper and submitted them to my editor for publication. Somewhere along the line, someone picked up what I wrote and handed it to Rush Limbaugh who broadcasted it across the country. I am not an environmental nut job, nor am I a corporate-sponsored puppet. I am just a college student, trying to make a name for myself – not as a biased, irresponsible and dishonest reporter, but as a fair and balanced journalist who is trying to provoke thought and debate. I still have a great deal to learn in school, but they say experience is the best teacher, and after these two weeks, I have subscribed to that belief as well.[/B][/QUOTE]


    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY][url]http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188[/url]

    as was the case when glaicers we thickening, etc, I fully expect some enviromental lunatic to try and make chicken salad out of this chicken sh!t....[/QUOTE]

  3. #3
    This was quickly debunked..

  4. #4
    Is it better to drive a prius over a hummer or vice versa? depends on the view point.

    I agree with the conclusion that hybrids will not solve our dependancy on foreign oil. Also the point about nickel batteries sounds valid.

    but just because hybrids aren't a be all and end all this is not an excuse to burn as much oil as possible.

  5. #5
    It is very funny that Rush reads an opinion piece by a college student and a couple of weeks later the writer knows he was wrong on several points.
    Do you think Rush read the second piece?


    [QUOTE=bitonti]Is it better to drive a prius over a hummer or vice versa? depends on the view point.

    I agree with the conclusion that hybrids will not solve our dependancy on foreign oil. Also the point about nickel batteries sounds valid.

    but just because hybrids aren't a be all and end all this is not an excuse to burn as much oil as possible.[/QUOTE]

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=cr726]
    Do you think Rush read the second piece?[/QUOTE]

    no, Rush doesn't read anything longer than the label on the side of his painkiller bottles.

    seriously though the point of this person's article (misguided or not) isn't to just forget about saving the environment, to just throw up your hands and say f--k it.

  7. #7
    Defending the Hummer of the Prius is more BS. Hybrids may not be the answer but the Hummer certainly is a big part of the problem. I have two cars that are 7 and 11 years old. I went to the auto show and looked at the replacement vehicles for both of these cars. In both cases the new model is significantly bigger, heavier and while the engine block is the same size they added additional power and the gas mileage is actual down slightly. In both cases the same size car with the same weight could be powered with a smaller more efficient engine with the same power as my current two cars with a pick up in both city and highway mileage. This is a case where technology that could easily be reducing our dependence on foreign oil and reducing our cost by reducing demand has been squandered for added room and power which I never requested or needed.

  8. #8
    I was watching the movie "Who killed the Electric Car" the other night, I didn't get to see all of it, but what I did see was pretty disturbing. I forget which oil company bought the battery technology and shelfed it, but the electric car seems like a very real option.

    You are right about the writer's point, but what was CBTNY's point?

    [QUOTE=bitonti]no, Rush doesn't read anything longer than the label on the side of his painkiller bottles.

    seriously though the point of this person's article (misguided or not) isn't to just forget about saving the environment, to just throw up your hands and say f--k it.[/QUOTE]

  9. #9
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    [IMG]http://www.yourluckyparrot.com/parrot.jpg[/IMG]

    Polly wants an Oxycontin....

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY][url]http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188[/url]

    as was the case when glaicers we thickening, etc, I fully expect some enviromental lunatic to try and make chicken salad out of this chicken sh!t....[/QUOTE]

    Posting a quickly debunked college newspaper story. Wow.

    You are beyond pathetic.

  11. #11
    What no retort from CBTNY?? So he takes the word of a college journalism student over people who actually know how to study the environmental damage that cars/car companies do? And then makes some nonsensical comment about glaciers and chicken salad.

    What? Is it a slow news day? This is such a half-assed attempt at attacking "lunatic" enviromentalists. CBTNY, I expect so much more from you. :rolleyes:

    [url]http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_of_science/case_studies/hummer_versus_prius.html[/url]

    [Quote=] Hummer versus Prius:
    “Dust to Dust” Report Misleads the Media and Public with Bad Science

    by Peter H. Gleick, May, 2007

    The CNW Marketing Research, Inc.’s 2007 “Dust to Dust: The Energy Cost of New Vehicles From Concept to Disposal” caught the interest of the media and the public with its claim that a Hummer H3 SUV has a lower life-cycle energy cost than a Toyota Prius hybrid. Closer inspection suggests that the report’s conclusions rely on faulty methods of analysis, untenable assumptions, selective use and presentation of data, and a complete lack of peer review. Even the most cursory look reveals serious biases and flaws: the average Hummer H1 is assumed to travel 379,000 miles and last for 35 years, while the average Prius is assumed to last only 109,000 miles over less than 12 years. These selective and unsupported assumptions distort the final results. A quick re-analysis with peer-reviewed data leads to completely opposite conclusions: the life-cycle energy requirements of hybrids and smaller cars are far lower than Hummers and other large SUVs. CNW should either release its full report, including methods, assumptions, and data, or the public should ignore its conclusions. Unfortunately, “Dust to Dust” has already distorted the public debate.

    Download the Pacific Institute's seven page re-analysis of “Dust to Dust” (PDF)[/Quote]

    Maybe someone should do a little more research before posting articles. Oh, wait, if it doesn't fall in line with rights version then it all just left wing lunatic enviromentalism with media bias only presenting socialist/communist views trying to destroy our great nation with unpatriotic practices. Good freakin' lord.

  12. #12
    Bump.

    Let's keep CBTNY's affinitity for posting already-debunked college newspaper articles at the top of the board for as long as we can.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola]Posting a quickly debunked college newspaper story. Wow.

    You are beyond pathetic.[/QUOTE]

    boy...I got part of it wrong...

    now I know how you, jetdawg and F4 phantom feel everytime you log onto this forum...

    of course there's no debating the misleading facts the enviromental loons want you to believe...

    [QUOTE][B]That being said, there is still fairly substantial evidence that hybrids are not nearly as efficient; nor are they as environmentally sound as one may think.[/B] There are many cleaner, faster and sleeker alternatives out there waiting to be picked up. Cars such as the Tesla Roadster, for sale now at teslamotors. com, which is an entirely electric car that can journey up to 250 miles on a single battery charge, as well as sprinting from 0-60mph in a blistering four seconds. And to top it all off, it is available for about $30,000 if you opt to wait, rather then pay an additional $20,000 to receive the next one available. The Tesla is just one of the many options available right now and will hopefully garner more attention in the future.

    Unfortunately many of these options go largely unnoticed simply because they don’t come from a major auto manufacturer. This is a large part of why I wrote the article in the first place: I believe hybrids are not going to solve our imminent energy crisis, and focusing on a platform that still requires petrol in any amount is ultimately a band-aid for what could become a mortal wound. But this is what many manufacturers are offering to us; half-assed solutions to a real problem that will affect everyone the world over. But if people are kept in the dark regarding alternatives to oil and hybrids, then by the time real alternatives are available, we may have dug ourselves an oil-lined grave. [/QUOTE]

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]boy...I got part of it wrong...

    now I know how you, jetdawg and F4 phantom feel everytime you log onto this forum...

    of course there's no debating the misleading facts the enviromental loons want you to believe...[/QUOTE]

    Did you cut and paste that witty repartee from a college newspaper, too?

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola]Did you cut and paste that witty repartee from a college newspaper, too?[/QUOTE]

    no dipsh!t...

    it's in the the article from post #2.....learn to read and do more than regurgitate...

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]boy...I got part of it wrong...

    now I know how you, jetdawg and F4 phantom feel everytime you log onto this forum...[/Quote]

    [Quote=]That being said, there is still fairly substantial evidence that hybrids are not nearly as efficient; nor are they as environmentally sound as one may think. There are many cleaner, faster and sleeker alternatives out there waiting to be picked up. Cars such as the Tesla Roadster, for sale now at teslamotors. com, which is an entirely electric car that can journey up to 250 miles on a single battery charge, as well as sprinting from 0-60mph in a blistering four seconds. And to top it all off, it is available for about $30,000 if you opt to wait, rather then pay an additional $20,000 to receive the next one available. The Tesla is just one of the many options available right now and will hopefully garner more attention in the future. [/Quote]

    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]of course there's no debating the misleading facts the enviromental loons want you to believe...[/QUOTE]

    Again better start doing a little more research before you blindly post away. The Tesla Roadster isn't available yet and won't be until 2008. Also, it is not going to be available for $30,000 it will be available for about $92,000.

    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster[/url]

    Do a little research before you post. It doesn't hurt.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]no dipsh!t...

    it's in the the article from post #2.....learn to read and do more than regurgitate...[/QUOTE]

    So, yes, you did post it from the college paper then. Because article No. 2 is also from the college journalist.

    You're a sad man.

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=F-4 Phantom]Again better start doing a little more research before you blindly post away. The Tesla Roadster isn't available yet and won't be until 2008. Also, it is not going to be available for $30,000 it will be available for about $92,000.

    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster[/url]

    Do a little research before you post. It doesn't hurt.[/QUOTE]

    you should first take a class in reading comprehension...it will expand your mind and help you understand...

    the issue is not about the Tesla- it's about the almighty hybrids not being the saviour the enviro-nuts want everyone to believe; as I spelled out and bolded....

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola]So, yes, you did post it from the college paper then. Because article No. 2 is also from the college journalist.

    You're a sad man.[/QUOTE]

    your stupidity it reaching new lengths....

    the article used to dispute the article I posted is also from a...journalism student in a college paper!! :spin:

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]your stupidity it reaching new lengths....

    the article used to dispute the article I posted is also from a...journalism student in a college paper!! :spin:[/QUOTE]

    You're funny.

    The same college student --Chris Demorro-- wrote both articles. In the second article he is saying how wrong he was in the first.

    You are using both articles --the one he wrote originally and the one in which he said he had no idea what he was talking about-- to try and argue, which may make you a schizophrenic.

    You should get help.

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