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Thread: Religious conservative impressed by Obama

  1. #1
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    Religious conservative impressed by Obama

    You don't see a lot of praise for Democrats on this web site, that's for sure. I take it as further proof that, if he can get by Hillary, this is a guy with the cross-party appeal to win in a general election:

    [url]http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/183357.aspx[/url]

    [B][I]"Somehow, somewhere along the way, faith stopped being used to bring us together and started being used to drive us apart. It got hijacked. Part of it’s because of the so-called leaders of the Christian Right, who’ve been all too eager to exploit what divides us. At every opportunity, they’ve told evangelical Christians that Democrats disrespect their values and dislike their Church, while suggesting to the rest of the country that religious Americans care only about issues like abortion and gay marriage; school prayer and intelligent design. There was even a time when the Christian Coalition determined that its number one legislative priority was tax cuts for the rich. I don’t know what Bible they’re reading, but it doesn’t jibe with my version." -- Barack Obama[/I]
    [/B]
    Last edited by nuu faaola; 06-25-2007 at 03:37 PM.

  2. #2
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    Somehow, I don't think it's Christianity that's driving wedges throughout the world. Something more along the lines of the hate-mongering, Jew-exterminating Islamic fundamentalism might be the religion that got hijacked. If he really had some balls, he'd speak out against that.

    Unfortunetly, Christianity is the trendy religion to dump on these days.

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    [QUOTE=pauliec]Somehow, I don't think it's Christianity that's driving wedges throughout the world. Something more along the lines of the hate-mongering, Jew-exterminating Islamic fundamentalism might be the religion that got hijacked. If he really had some balls, he'd speak out against that.

    Unfortunetly, Christianity is the trendy religion to dump on these days.[/QUOTE]

    If you read the story, Obama is not dumping on Christianity. He's sharing his conversion experience and forwarding a different thesis on what its role should be in public life.

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola]If you read the story, Obama is not dumping on Christianity. He's sharing his conversion experience and forwarding a different thesis on what its role should be in public life.[/QUOTE]


    I didn't mean to say that he specifically is dumping on Christianity. BUt you know he'd totally be able to get away with it if he wanted to.

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    [QUOTE=pauliec]I didn't mean to say that he specifically is dumping on Christianity. BUt you know he'd totally be able to get away with it if he wanted to.[/QUOTE]

    True, but that would be contrary to his natural constituency (and to his biography).

    Obama is trying to build a coalition of social liberals and religious conservatives who are motivated more by social justice issues like poverty than they are by the traditional hot buttons such as abortion and gay marriage. It would be an unusual political base by today's standards.

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    [QUOTE=pauliec]Somehow, I don't think it's Christianity that's driving wedges throughout the world...[/QUOTE]


    Of course its not Christianity, Paulie...that's not what the quote even said.

    Its people who USE Christianity for divisive political reasons. It these so called false prophets that would emerge near the end of days that Jesus and the apostles warned us about. Jesus was the most tolerant individual who ever walked the earth. His lessons on forgiveness have nearly been forgotten about in our modern world. Jesus even wished forgiveness on those who would do him harm...

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    The Dims want to take religion out of everything suddenly find it during an election.

    Yeah right, Hussein isn't fooling anyone.

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    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan]The Dims want to take religion out of everything suddenly find it during an election.

    Yeah right, Hussein isn't fooling anyone.[/QUOTE]

    Fooling anyone about what? Are you saying he's not really a religious guy?

    I think Obama is arguing, essentially, that he's a different sort of Democrat in this regard, which is probably true.

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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola]Fooling anyone about what? Are you saying he's not really a religious guy?

    I think Obama is arguing, essentially, that he's a different sort of Democrat in this regard, which is probably true.[/QUOTE]

    Like I said, the party that wants to take GOD out of everything, suddenly finds religion during an election.

    Fuqin hypocrites....

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    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan]Like I said, the party that wants to take GOD out of everything, suddenly finds religion during an election.

    Fuqin hypocrites....[/QUOTE]

    It's not the party. It's one candidate.

    Find one statement in Obama's past that makes him a hypocrite for talking about this issue. You can't.

  11. #11
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    "There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America" .... Barak Obama

    Now do some research on the beliefs of his church, the Trinity United Church of Christ....

    The azzhole is a hypocrite, plain and simple.......

  12. #12
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    Dean you think you know about Christ?

    what would Jesus do, buddy?

    Jesus said turn the other cheek.

    Jesus said the meek shall inherit the Earth.

    Jesus said love your neighbor.

    Jesus said it is harder for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven.

    Bombing countries for no reason is un-Christian. Killing people in the name of democracy is un-Christian.

    Obama is a hypocrite but im sure in your mind, George Bush is Christ like?

    Read the New testament sometime instead of Newsmax maybe you wouldn't be so full of rage.

  13. #13
    flushingjet
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    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan]"There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America" .... Barak Obama

    Now do some research on the beliefs of his church, the Trinity United Church of Christ....

    The azzhole is a hypocrite, plain and simple.......[/QUOTE]

    heres osamas non-eurocentric church:

    [url="http://www.tucc.org/about.htm"]http://www.tucc.org/about.htm[/url]
    [url="http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm"]http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm[/url]

  14. #14
    flushingjet
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    [QUOTE=bitonti]Dean you think you know about Christ?

    what would Jesus do, buddy?

    Jesus said turn the other cheek.

    Jesus said the meek shall inherit the Earth.

    Jesus said love your neighbor.

    Jesus said it is harder for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven.

    Bombing countries for no reason is un-Christian. Killing people in the name of democracy is un-Christian.

    Obama is a hypocrite but im sure in your mind, George Bush is Christ like?

    Read the New testament sometime instead of Newsmax maybe you wouldn't be so full of rage.[/QUOTE]

    what about killing people in the name of allah?
    whats their reason, buitoni

    hey, you were so gung-ho for osama! awhile back-wh'appen?

    mustve been that fake sopranos hillary! ad that made you
    weak in the knees

    hilarious how hillary! cant stand on her own without the
    former horndog in chief tagging along like a big doofy stray mutt

    bubba to hillary! is like american express card to normal people
    dont leave home without it

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=flushingjet]heres osamas non-eurocentric church:

    [url="http://www.tucc.org/about.htm"]http://www.tucc.org/about.htm[/url]
    [url="http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm"]http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm[/url][/QUOTE]


    These guys are as bad as David Duke.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan]These guys are as bad as David Duke.[/QUOTE]

    Nothing on that website does what I challenged you to do: Show Obama is a hypocrite --as you charged-- for talking about faith. Somehow posting his church's web site falls short.

    I guess that was just as baseless as everything else you air around here.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola]If you read the story, Obama is not dumping on Christianity. He's sharing his conversion experience and forwarding a different thesis on what its role should be in public life.[/QUOTE]

    Actually, he is trying to switch the focus from the things that the Evangelical Christians would hold against him to the warm fuzzies that they might find attractive.................. kumbayah:)

    I love how the left always blames the right for "division" and intolerance. That cuts both ways; for instance, the Republicans did allow pro - choice people to speak at their convention, while the left forbad any pro - life ploiticians from speaking at their convention.

    I guess the two biggest hot topics that divide let and right along religious lines are homosexuality and abortion. Right now there is a bill being presented that would make it illegal for a church to preach anything that was against homosexuality. The verses target the act and not an individual. How is that for freedom of religion? Is the left tolerating a belief system that stands in and of itself or are they trying to force that belief system to change to their belief system? Tolerant? Obama suggests the right are the ones dividing the country................ When we consider abortion, similar sentiments can be found. Personally I find abortion to be a very difficult topic to sort through. The teachings of Christianity are pretty clear.......... God knows you before you enter the womb and we are not to take life. When does life start? I guess morality and science can give different answers. But I am sure of two things: that abortion used as a means of birth control is wrong and that I can completely understand a rape victim or a victim of incest not wanting to carry a baby to full term. What I can't understand is anyone who either says the women victims I made examples of must bear their children or that someone can defend the gross use of abortion as contraception. Again, the religious right are the ones painted as wrong in this dichotomy and they are the ones sketched as inflexible and unsympathetic in the media. When is the last time you saw a cartoon or read a piece about a woman who ignores birth control despite knowing the risks, maybe goes out clubbing or partying or just plain hooking up, only to get pregnant and without remorse goes to the clinic to get a procedure? What about a piece condemning a father to be for trying to coerce a confused young lady to "get rid of it?" There's something pretty sinister about both of those imaginary (but all too often real) characters.

    Bit -

    Isn't it true that you do not believe in Christianity? If so, why do you keep quoting it? FWIW, sometimes I think you make some valid points. But to understand a verse, you have to know it in context. You quote in your post from the Beattitudes and Matthew 5. The beattitudes are a way for an individual to live - not a means for the conduct of a country. Jesus Christ said to turn the other cheek, for sure, but He never said nor does the Bible say that a country should, when attacked, play pacifist and be attacked again. Not only do I think pretty much all Christians but also pretty much all Americans are in complete agreement that defending ourselves against Afghanistan was right. Disagreement comes whether or not you think going after Iraq was right. If tomorrow we found either WMD or a very detailed record of terrorist support by Saddam against the USA, people would be much more accepting of the war.
    Last edited by JCnflies; 06-25-2007 at 11:40 PM.

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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola]Nothing on that website does what I challenged you to do: Show Obama is a hypocrite --as you charged-- for talking about faith. Somehow posting his church's web site falls short.

    I guess that was just as baseless as everything else you air around here.[/QUOTE]

    I don't think it is ever hypocritical to discuss faith in an election. If a politician claims to be of a certain faith, then clearly that faith will be one of the factors guiding him or her - possibly the biggest factor. Why shouldn't the American people know this? That said, I don;t think any candidate should have to spend all of their time defending their faith. If you are not going to vote for some satanist because you do not believe someone who worships satan is the kind of person who can run our country, I understand that. How much a politician wants to discuss faith should be up to them to do........ they can put in in their advertisements, interviews, etc.

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    [QUOTE=JCnflies]
    I guess the two biggest hot topics that divide let and right along religious lines are homosexuality and abortion. Right now there is a bill being presented that would make it illegal for a church to preach anything that was against homosexuality. The verses target the act and not an individual. How is that for freedom of religion? Is the left tolerating a belief system that stands in and of itself or are they trying to force that belief system to change to their belief system? Tolerant? Obama suggests the right are the ones dividing the country................ When we consider abortion, similar sentiments can be found. Personally I find abortion to be a very difficult topic to sort through. The teachings of Christianity are pretty clear.......... .[/QUOTE]

    Well, I think it's interesting that the "two biggest hot topics" in our country's debate on faith in politics are barely addressed at all in scripture. Homosexuality comes up --what?-- twice in the entire Judeo-Christian Bible? Abortion is not mentioned even once. And I don't know where the Christian Coalition got its tax cut stuff -- the bible doesn't say great things about the rich getting richer.

    Now what is mentioned literally dozens --maybe hundreds-- of times? An imperative to help the sick and needy, and an imperative to be tolerant.

    Obama is saying that, if faith is going to guide our politics, we ought to stick to the things our faith emphasizes: Helping the needy and being tolerant of one another. (The other nice thing about this is that all major religions are basically in agreement on these priorities, so its not a strictly Christian viewpoint that excludes other creeds.)

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola]Well, I think it's interesting that the "two biggest hot topics" in our country's debate on faith in politics are barely addressed at all in scripture. Homosexuality comes up --what?-- twice in the entire Judeo-Christian Bible? Abortion is not mentioned even once. And I don't know where the Christian Coalition got its tax cut stuff -- the bible doesn't say great things about the rich getting richer.

    Now what is mentioned literally dozens --maybe hundreds-- of times? An imperative to help the sick and needy, and an imperative to be tolerant.

    Obama is saying that, if faith is going to guide our politics, we ought to stick to the things our faith emphasizes: Helping the needy and being tolerant of one another. (The other nice thing about this is that all major religions are basically in agreement on these priorities, so its not a strictly Christian viewpoint that excludes other creeds.)[/QUOTE]

    Homosexuality is mentioned, I can think of off the top of my head, a minimum of three times in Paul's wrtitings as well as in Sodom and Gomorrah as well as other places in the OT. The thing is that the Bible calls it the most abominable sin.

    As for abortion, no the term is not mentioned; however, infanticide is. But God reacts with incredible impugnity at those who offered up infants to Baal. Infanticide always enrages God. Just consider what you mentioned about caring for the poor? Is anyone more "poor" than an infant or child in the womb?

    I think the reason that you see many Christians focus on homosexuality and abortion is that the Bible is very clear about them being wrong and that they want our laws to reflect that. Caring for the poor is a responsibvility that the church takes very seriously - at least good churches - but that is viewed as a church aclling and not a political directive.

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