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Thread: Most dominant Heavyweight ever?

  1. #1

    Most dominant Heavyweight ever?

    Bergen and I had discussed this in a previous thread. He argued in favor of Tyson, while personally I have to go with Joe Louis.

    Louis completely dominated quality competition. Not even a debate really. He knocked out Baer in his prime in 4 rounds (directly after the Braddock fight) and after knocking out Schmelling in 1 in the rematch, went on a 3 fight streak of 1st round knockouts. You look at his knockout history and it's just absurd.

    http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...9027&cat=boxer

    His track record of knockouts from 1934-39 is flat out mind boggling. And this wasn't against garbage like Trevor Berbick. This was against guys like Primo Carnera, John Henry Lewis, Baer, and Braddock.

  2. #2
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    Can't really argue against Joe Louis. I did argue that Tyson was more dominant than a young George Forman though, and I still stand by that. Partly because I am a HUGE Ali fan...

    What Iron Mike did for a prolonged stretch of time is amazing. I wouldn't rate him anywhere near the top of the list as far as talent goes, and he was going against inferior talent... but nobody stood a bloody chance until he f'd it up himself. Everybody else was eventually beaten by an opponent in the ring, Iron Mike lost to the opponent in his own head.

  3. #3
    Louis was a rock. One of my personal all time favorite athletes.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by BergenJet View Post
    Can't really argue against Joe Louis. I did argue that Tyson was more dominant than a young George Forman though, and I still stand by that. Partly because I am a HUGE Ali fan...

    What Iron Mike did for a prolonged stretch of time is amazing. I wouldn't rate him anywhere near the top of the list as far as talent goes, and he was going against inferior talent... but nobody stood a bloody chance until he f'd it up himself. Everybody else was eventually beaten by an opponent in the ring, Iron Mike lost to the opponent in his own head.
    That's the thing though, even with Foreman vs. Tyson, who was really MORE dominant?

    In reality, Tyson's most impressive dominating performance IMO is Michael Spinks, and that's simply because of how good Spinks was as a light heavyweight (which people grossly forget in hindsight, Spinks is one of the greatest LH's of all time). Who else did he beat that's name worthy as a youngster? A 40 year old Larry Holmes?

    Foreman at least had Norton and Frazier (whom he kicked the living **** out of) on his record as a youngster. And he got knocked off his pedestal by the Greatest, not Buster f'ing Douglas.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RutgersJetFan View Post
    That's the thing though, even with Foreman vs. Tyson, who was really MORE dominant?

    In reality, Tyson's most impressive dominating performance IMO is Michael Spinks, and that's simply because of how good Spinks was as a light heavyweight (which people grossly forget in hindsight, Spinks is one of the greatest LH's of all time). Who else did he beat that's name worthy as a youngster? A 40 year old Larry Holmes?

    Foreman at least had Norton and Frazier (whom he kicked the living **** out of) on his record as a youngster. And he got knocked off his pedestal by the Greatest, not Buster f'ing Douglas.
    Tyson definitely didn't fight in a quality era for heavyweights, but that's not his fault. Prime Tyson would've been even money with just about any heavy of any era. Forget about who Tyson fought, look at how he fought. Not just his devastating power, the guy's head movement and ability to get to the inside would have posed problems for anybody. He was a really well rounded fighter.

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    Marciano.

    He hit hard.
    He never lost.
    He was Italian.

    Need I say more?

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    Dempsey

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sourceworx View Post
    Marciano.

    He hit hard.
    He never lost.
    He was Italian.

    Need I say more?
    Rocky Marciano couldn't carry my ...

    oh, never mind.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by sourceworx View Post
    Marciano.

    He hit hard.
    He never lost.
    He was Italian.

    Need I say more?
    This is too easy...

    Oh there they go. There they go, every time I start talkin 'bout boxing, a white man got to pull Rocky Marciano out their ass. That's their one, that's their one. Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano. Let me tell you something once and for all. Rocky Marciano was good, but compared to Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano ain't ****.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by person View Post
    Tyson definitely didn't fight in a quality era for heavyweights, but that's not his fault. Prime Tyson would've been even money with just about any heavy of any era. Forget about who Tyson fought, look at how he fought. Not just his devastating power, the guy's head movement and ability to get to the inside would have posed problems for anybody. He was a really well rounded fighter.
    Oh I'm not taking anything away from Tyson, he's one of my favorite fighters ever and I've also had the pleasure of meeting the guy several times.

    Tyson's side to side style really fit him well, he was constantly moving like a pendulum throughout each and every fight and it suited his size and his style to a T. Totally underrated chin as well, as good as Mike could give a punch, he could also take one.

    But we're talking about dominating here. If you can ever get a copy of Foreman/Chuvalo, I highly recomend it. Or even Foreman/Norton, where it literally looks like Foreman's trying to commit homicide inside the ring.

    My point being, Foreman was arguably just as much if not more dominating pre-Ali than Tyson was pre-Douglas. And you HAVE to take in to account the guys that they did it against.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RutgersJetFan View Post
    Oh I'm not taking anything away from Tyson, he's one of my favorite fighters ever and I've also had the pleasure of meeting the guy several times.

    Tyson's side to side style really fit him well, he was constantly moving like a pendulum throughout each and every fight and it suited his size and his style to a T. Totally underrated chin as well, as good as Mike could give a punch, he could also take one.

    But we're talking about dominating here. If you can ever get a copy of Foreman/Chuvalo, I highly recomend it. Or even Foreman/Norton, where it literally looks like Foreman's trying to commit homicide inside the ring.

    My point being, Foreman was arguably just as much if not more dominating pre-Ali than Tyson was pre-Douglas. And you HAVE to take in to account the guys that they did it against.
    I'll never forget what Foreman did to Frazier, an all time great. He destroyed the man; just beat him like an old paint.

    At one point, he lifted Frazier off of the ground with one of his punches, and finished him off with a blast from behind, as Frazier ran about like a chicken without its' head. His son said he cried and thought his father was dead.

    I never saw a champion dominated like that. It was scary. If it happened in the street, Foreman would be behind bars for attempted murder, and if it happened today, police in riot gear would've had to subdue him, with Tazers no less. The man was a mountain, just physically imposing.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by MiamiJet View Post
    I'll never forget what Foreman did to Frazier, an all time great. He destroyed the man; just beat him like an old paint.

    At one point, he lifted Frazier off of the ground with one of his punches, and finished him off with a blast from behind, as Frazier ran about like a chicken without its' head. His son said he cried and thought his father was dead.

    I never saw a champion dominated like that. It was scary. If it happened in the street, Foreman would be behind bars for attempted murder, and if it happened today, police in riot gear would've had to subdue him, with Tazers no less. The man was a mountain, just physically imposing.
    People forget that he lifted Norton off the ground as well with an uppercut.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIUej06VkJU

    Keep in mind this is against a man who broke Ali's jaw.

    At that point in the sport, I don't think there'd ever been a fighter of that size who could slip like that. This is just straight up murder.

    Amazingly smart for his height as well. Foreman knew exactly how to cut the ring off at all times.

    In retrospect, watching him cut off the ring like he does makes you appreciate Ali even more.

  13. #13
    Really wish I got to see these guys fight in there prime.

    I'm stuck watching Wladimir Klitschko, Samuel Peter and Chris Byrd.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by JV51 View Post
    Really wish I got to see these guys fight in there prime.

    I'm stuck watching Wladimir Klitschko, Samuel Peter and Chris Byrd.
    You can.

    Ebay, youtube, there's plenty of places to check out. I've got a huge collection of Sugar Ray Robinson and I'm 26 lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RutgersJetFan View Post
    You can.

    Ebay, youtube, there's plenty of places to check out. I've got a huge collection of Sugar Ray Robinson and I'm 26 lol.
    It is amazing what you can find out there... cheap no less.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RutgersJetFan View Post
    People forget that he lifted Norton off the ground as well with an uppercut.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIUej06VkJU

    Keep in mind this is against a man who broke Ali's jaw.

    At that point in the sport, I don't think there'd ever been a fighter of that size who could slip like that. This is just straight up murder.

    Amazingly smart for his height as well. Foreman knew exactly how to cut the ring off at all times.

    In retrospect, watching him cut off the ring like he does makes you appreciate Ali even more.
    Great stuff. Since my father and I didn't have much money growing up, we only had one TV, a 13" black and white Philco

    I was forced to watch whatever he watched, whcih meant plenty of Wide World of Sports and boxing on NBC. I can't remember the name of the show(think it was SportsWorld), but anyway, I saw plenty of those Ali matches. The Norton-Ali fight was always one of my most memorbale fights. Tough, gritty, and full of draama, you could feel the tension in the air. I'm glad I grew up in that era.

    I have a ton of respect for Foreman. He did to men what no one else could;he not only beat them, but dominated them, brutalized them. I fully agree, Rut; Ali's greatness is that much more evident, based on what he was able to do against Foreman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MiamiJet View Post
    This is too easy...

    Oh there they go. There they go, every time I start talkin 'bout boxing, a white man got to pull Rocky Marciano out their ass. That's their one, that's their one. Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano. Let me tell you something once and for all. Rocky Marciano was good, but compared to Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano ain't ****.
    I guess that's why Marciano beat him.

    It's not about him being white, it's about him being a dago.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sourceworx View Post
    I guess that's why Marciano beat him.

    It's not about him being white, it's about him being a dago.
    Are you joking or being serious?

    Comedy is completely lost on you.

    The quote was from "Coming to America", the barber shop skit....
    Last edited by MiamiJet; 10-04-2007 at 02:12 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiamiJet View Post
    Are you joking or being serious?

    Comedy is completely lost on you.

    The quote was from "Coming to America", the barber shop skit....
    I knew it sounded familiar.

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