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Thread: The Top Issues of Importance for Election 2008

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=jefethegreat;2198070]I agree the education system doesn't need more money. I would rather allow families of students to get exempt from their taxes which go to education if they send there kids to private school. [B]The private sector can solve this problem[/B].[/QUOTE]

    What makes you think the private sector can solve this problemm??
    One of the reasons that prvate schools do well is that by having a tuition , they are in effect selecting out students whos family care enough about their kids education to cough up the extra dough to invest in the childs future. These kids obviously have more parental involvement in their kids education and are more likely to attend parent-teacher education and take an active role in their educatio.

    Another major advantage private schools have is the ability to limit the size of the classroom.

    Now you want to take away these 2 major advantages private schools have over the public schools....and you think they still can be successful?

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2198105]What makes you think the private sector can solve this problemm??
    One of the reasons that prvate schools do well is that by having a tuition , they are in effect selecting out students whos family care enough about their kids education to cough up the extra dough to invest in the childs future. These kids obviously have more parental involvement in their kids education and are more likely to attend parent-teacher education and take an active role in their educatio.

    Another major advantage private schools have is the ability to limit the size of the classroom.

    Now you want to take away these 2 major advantages private schools have over the public schools....and you think they still can be successful?[/QUOTE]




    Another big advantage private schools have is they can maintain the "if you don't like it here go somewhere else" attitude. Also, the "we don't feel your suited for our structured curriculum so that a hike" attitude.

  3. #43
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    1) Liberty

    2) Environment

    3) Fiscal sanity (balanced budgets, restoration of the Dollar, stop the Amero, tax appropriately for spending... either reduce spending drastically, including cutting defense spending, or let taxes go back to normal rates)

    4) End illegal invasion of Iraq

    5) "Man on the Moon" type program to develop alternate and renewable energy forms, used with money saved from ending of illegal invasion of Iraq

  4. #44
    flushingjet
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    [quote=BrooklynBound;2196240]Ron Paul. If someone disagrees – I’d like to see examples.[/quote]

    too much hubbly-bubbly and not enough reading of
    the 100s of past rupaul threads
    (who is a "kook", yes, absolutely)

    too many examples have been made here,
    not just by myself, to show how
    ron paul (?-TX) is an extremely poor choice to lead us

    a liberal in libertarian clothing-if the GOP isnt supposed
    to be a "neo-con" or "religious" party it surely isnt
    supposed to be a libertarian one either

    the least electable GOPer left
    and the next to least electable candidate
    from all parties besides arch-kook #1 - dennis kucinich

    just because he has a hardcore fanboy following of 2%
    and can raise some pocket change from
    his cult of 400,000 fellow xenophobic kooks
    doesnt mean hes going anywhere
    not worried that he is

    why he's any young man's
    sugar daddy is a mystery to me

    he'd do absolutely nothing about the
    pressing issues of our time

    for crynoutloud if you really want Hillary! just vote
    for her directly...like all other principled
    fringe kook party voters you'll only
    help the main candidate of the
    opposition by scrawling ron pauls
    name in a write in vote

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2198313]too much hubbly-bubbly and not enough reading of
    the 100s of past rupaul threads
    (who is a "kook", yes, absolutely)

    too many examples have been made here,
    not just by myself, to show how
    ron paul (?-TX) is an extremely poor choice to lead us

    a liberal in libertarian clothing-if the GOP isnt supposed
    to be a "neo-con" or "religious" party it surely isnt
    supposed to be a libertarian one either

    the least electable GOPer left
    and the next to least electable candidate
    from all parties besides arch-kook #1 - dennis kucinich

    just because he has a hardcore fanboy following of 2%
    and can raise some pocket change from
    his cult of 400,000 fellow xenophobic kooks
    doesnt mean hes going anywhere
    not worried that he is

    why he's any young man's
    sugar daddy is a mystery to me

    he'd do absolutely nothing about the
    pressing issues of our time

    for crynoutloud if you really want Hillary! just vote
    for her directly...like all other principled
    fringe kook party voters you'll only
    help the main candidate of the
    opposition by scrawling ron pauls
    name in a write in vote[/QUOTE]

    First of all – you are quoting a post that was responding to the question of “which candidate actually speaks the truth, follows the Constitution that they swear to uphold, and acts on principle.” That’s Ron Paul. If you disagree, provide specific examples. No one has done so as of yet.

    Liberal? Ha – that’s a good one. The only liberal thing about Paul is his belief in classical liberal markets, which is the correct viewpoint. It’s not his fault he’s a true conservative unlike the rest of the Republicrats.

    Why are his supporters xenophobic? I have to admit – you calling anyone xenophobic is high comedy.

    How is he a Hillary clone? Provide specific examples. This should be good.

    Pocket change? Yes, raising 4.5 mil in a little more than a day and 7.5 mil in 5 weeks is pocket change. Keep thinking that.

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2198105]What makes you think the private sector can solve this problemm??
    One of the reasons that prvate schools do well is that by having a tuition , they are in effect selecting out students whos family care enough about their kids education to cough up the extra dough to invest in the childs future. These kids obviously have more parental involvement in their kids education and are more likely to attend parent-teacher education and take an active role in their educatio.

    Another major advantage private schools have is the ability to limit the size of the classroom.

    Now you want to take away these 2 major advantages private schools have over the public schools....and you think they still can be successful?[/QUOTE]

    I don't think you understand my point. I went through the public education system because my parents couldn't afford private schools. If you give parents there money which goes toward public schools and allow them to take that money and send there kids to private schools, many many more parents would send there children to private schools. Any good parent would try to get the best education for there children.

    Your other point was that schools couldn't limit class size, but.... Why couldn't they? They don't have to accept students... they would be free to do what they wanted. The could still limit class size.

    Remember, if more parents are sending there children to private schools, more private schools will spring up and with competition, cost will go down.

    NOTE: I am not suggesting doing away with public education, everyone except parents of children in private school would still pay for public schools. So there would still be tax money for the schools. I just want to open competition.

  7. #47
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    I dont mind paying for a good public education system, but how about the NEA opening their books to show us where all the money is going. They want more and more money how about showing us the beef!

  8. #48
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    If flushingjet knew what a liberal was he'd know that Ron Paul is the exact opposite of what a "liberal" is in this day and age. Liberals are socialists who want govt intervention instead of free markets. Ron Paul is the exact opposite of that.

    modern "liberalism" = socialism
    "classical liberalism" = true conservatism = libertarianism. Read Ludvig von Mises to find out what a true liberal was before socialists hijacked the word during the 20th century.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=JetsCrazey;2198809]If flushingjet knew what a liberal was he'd know that Ron Paul is the exact opposite of what a "liberal" is in this day and age. Liberals are socialists who want govt intervention instead of free markets. Ron Paul is the exact opposite of that.

    modern "liberalism" = socialism
    "classical liberalism" = true conservatism = libertarianism. Read Ludvig von Mises to find out what a true liberal was before socialists hijacked the word during the 20th century.[/QUOTE]

    I think its fair to say the terms "liberal" and "conservative" have both been completely robbed of their true meaning in our politics.

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2198820]I think its fair to say the terms "liberal" and "conservative" have both been completely robbed of their true meaning in our politics.[/QUOTE]

    Truth.

  11. #51
    flushingjet
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    [quote=BrooklynBound;2198378]First of all – you are quoting a post that was responding to the question of “which candidate actually speaks the truth, follows the Constitution that they swear to uphold, and acts on principle.” That’s Ron Paul. If you disagree, provide specific examples. No one has done so as of yet.

    Liberal? Ha – that’s a good one. The only liberal thing about Paul is his belief in classical liberal markets, which is the correct viewpoint. It’s not his fault he’s a true conservative unlike the rest of the Republicrats.

    Why are his supporters xenophobic? I have to admit – you calling anyone xenophobic is high comedy.

    How is he a Hillary clone? Provide specific examples. This should be good.

    Pocket change? Yes, raising 4.5 mil in a little more than a day and 7.5 mil in 5 weeks is pocket change. Keep thinking that.[/quote]

    once more for the hard of comprehending....

    although i have already provided scores of examples
    denigrating the bad dr., no problem repeating myself here

    as a public service to the lovelorn smitten with ronpaulstiltskin
    i advise you to break up with ron before he breaks your heart
    and makes you blow your paper route money

    l ron paul hubbard is a bad, unfunny joke

    another protectionist, cut & run, pro-dope/anti War on Drugs, pro-9-11 truth, anti-Israel, anti-free/global trade/NAFTA, anti-Patriot Act,
    anti-military/war, blame America 1st candidate...just another liberal in my book despite the "republican" label and a handful of good positions....
    in the end, no difference on the most important issues of the day

    he's as much a "republican" as bernie sanders is a "democrat"

    and because i want all illegal aliens, especially those sucking billions from the public coffers kicked out on their duffs i'm xenophobic...sure, kid!

    only liberal/libertarian whackos think the us constitution grants the rights of us citizens to anyone breathing air within our borders

    or that america causes all its problems, and deserves "blowback"
    like theres no foreign-originated evil, or competition in the world

    and that the POTUS is just a figurehead....
    the executive powers are granted in the us constitution...look 'em up

    classical liberal markets providing collective services...thats a hot one
    you cant even explain the ramifications of them

    fallacious theories from the go-go 70s....put em away with
    your disco medallions and leisure suits

    about as healthy for the country as running with platform boots
    while wearing a maxicoat

    in rupauls fantasy world, may the best private bank & militia win, winner take all

    in the end, a write in vote for the mad dr. = a vote for hillary!

    same net effect

    difficult to grasp, i know

    ask ralph nader voters how much they influenced gov't!
    *chuckle*
    Last edited by flushingjet; 11-06-2007 at 07:16 PM.

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2199199]once more for the hard of comprehending....

    although i have already provided scores of examples
    denigrating the bad dr., no problem repeating myself here

    as a public service to the lovelorn smitten with ronpaulstiltskin
    i advise you to break up with ron before he breaks your heart
    and makes you blow your paper route money

    l ron paul hubbard is a bad, unfunny joke [/QUOTE]

    Irony alert.

    [QUOTE]

    another protectionist, cut & run, pro-dope/anti War on Drugs, pro-9-11 truth, anti-Israel, anti-free/global trade/NAFTA, anti-Patriot Act,
    anti-military/war, blame America 1st candidate...just another liberal in my book despite the "republican" label and a handful of good positions....
    in the end, no difference on the most important issues of the day

    he's as much a "republican" as bernie sanders is a "democrat"[/QUOTE]

    There is absolutely nothing liberal about Ron Paul. He couldn't be more conservative. He's what the GOP used to be about before they figured out it was more profitable to pretend to argue with the Dems while they both make out with their special interest groups to the side. Tell me, who are Ron Paul's special interest groups?

    Also, Paul is not a protectionist nor is he anti-free trade. This couldn't be further from the truth and the fact that you mention this proves you know little about his stances. Show me where he's a protectionist.

    [QUOTE]
    and because i want all illegal aliens, especially those sucking billions from the public coffers kicked out on their duffs i'm xenophobic...sure, kid![/QUOTE]

    Uh, what? You never answered how he is xenophobic.

    [QUOTE]

    only liberal/libertarian whackos think the us constitution grants the rights of us citizens to anyone breathing air within our borders

    or that america causes all its problems, and deserves "blowback"
    like theres no foreign-originated evil, or competition in the world

    and that the POTUS is just a figurehead....
    the executive powers are granted in the us constitution...look 'em up[/QUOTE]

    Where did he say any of these things? Don't make stuff up.

    [QUOTE]

    classical liberal markets providing collective services...thats a hot one
    you cant even explain the ramifications of them

    fallacious theories from the go-go 70s....put em away with
    your disco medallions and leisure suits[/QUOTE]

    Since when do classical liberal markets provide collective services? Classical liberalism is free trade. Don't cite something unless you know what you are talking about.

    [QUOTE]

    about as healthy for the country as running with platform boots
    while wearing a maxicoat

    in rupauls fantasy world, may the best private bank & militia win, winner take all

    in the end, a write in vote for the mad dr. = a vote for hillary!

    same net effect

    difficult to grasp, i know
    [/QUOTE]

    No, a vote for Paul is a vote for the best candidate. I'm not settling for a Republicrat just because he's favored to win. This allows the major candidates to become complacent and not have to fight for your votes. Progress isn't achieved that way.


    [QUOTE]
    ask ralph nader voters how much they influenced gov't!
    *chuckle*[/QUOTE]
    Paul raised half as much money yesterday as Nader did during his entire 2000 campaign. Try to make an apples to apples comparison.

  13. #53
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [quote=BrooklynBound;2199250]Irony alert.



    There is absolutely nothing liberal about Ron Paul. He couldn't be more conservative. He's what the GOP used to be about before they figured out it was more profitable to pretend to argue with the Dems while they both make out with their special interest groups to the side. Tell me, who are Ron Paul's special interest groups?

    Also, Paul is not a protectionist nor is he anti-free trade. This couldn't be further from the truth and the fact that you mention this proves you know little about his stances. Show me where he's a protectionist.



    Uh, what? You never answered how he is xenophobic.



    Where did he say any of these things? Don't make stuff up.



    Since when do classical liberal markets provide collective services? Classical liberalism is free trade. Don't cite something unless you know what you are talking about.



    No, a vote for Paul is a vote for the best candidate. I'm not settling for a Republicrat just because he's favored to win. This allows the major candidates to become complacent and not have to fight for your votes. Progress isn't achieved that way.



    Paul raised half as much money yesterday as Nader did during his entire 2000 campaign. Try to make an apples to apples comparison.[/quote]

    ok, lets take it from the top
    *sigh*

    take 2,746, "ron paul sucks"
    .......

    brooklyn bound and gagged,
    ron paul is a bad joke.

    his supporters are a funny joke-
    funny to look at and hear when they
    open their yaps and talk about
    what's conservative, classical, and
    gives us freedom and liberty

    ron paul holds as many liberal positions as
    his would be democratic opponents

    some of his conservative positions sound nice, but
    for the most part untenable.
    out of the UN, lets do it


    ron paul supporters somehow think that
    being anti-war, anti-NAFTA, anti-War on Drugs,
    anti-Patriot Act, exiting from NATO
    are all conservative stances

    anti-AMBER Alert? ?
    not supporting Israel? folks in Darfur?
    no on deterring arms transfer to China?
    no to federal ID card?
    no to prohibiting obesity lawsuits?
    no on military border patrols to battle drugs & terrorism?
    yes to gay marriage?
    inappropriate to impose sanctions for persecuting christians?
    china trade not contingent on human rights & product safety?

    and all that is conservative?

    uh, not exactly, this is hardcore libertarianism

    calling libertarianism reagan republicanism or
    conservatism
    is like calling a burro a thoroughbred

    open your eyes and look where a lot of
    your flaccid, i mean swellling
    ( though still miniscule)
    support is coming from
    the sociopaths in the small-d democrat party

    who btw will register as republicans or vote in open
    primaries for the bad dr as a nuisance vote
    using your man as a willing host for their parasitic views

    i said the positions of rupaul followers are xenophobic
    its precisely because they march to his
    cacophonic tune

    why dont you review this quack's prescription
    foreign policy wise

    cut & run, withdraw to our own borders
    our trillions in foreign investment be damned
    voting against free trade time and again

    if calling NAFTA managed trade and voting against it
    makes one pro-free trade thats a gd funny way to
    be a free trader.

    also to vote against
    CAFTA, and other ANZUS trade agreements
    and be against the WTO is
    pro-free-trade?

    look at the voting record

    [URL]http://www.ontheissues.org/Ron_Paul.htm[/URL]

    now if you understood what i was saying at all,
    of course classic liberal markets DON'T supply collective
    services.
    however, in some instances, and it doesnt matter
    if youre for free trade or not, it is anarchy to
    rely on competitive providers for certain things
    the government provides.

    national defense and allocation of resources to it
    is first and foremost.

    another, decentralized banks
    such as the free banking /state system
    was already tried in the 19th c.
    and was a dismal, chaotic failure
    in terms of stable value of US currencies

    Prices? Stable. Great for hay , new pitchforks and eggs.
    Gold? Silver? A-OK....provided you have some.
    Currency? Today your NY dollar bill isn't worth 100 NJ cents.
    Wait a few days and maybe it will be on par
    with Pennsylvania!

    ****

    I know it took you guys awhile to pick up
    cans and bottles from the roadside

    digging under sofa cushions broke a few nails
    as well

    bravo for keeping america beautiful
    *and* supporting your man in
    a "noble" yet losing cause

    once more for the voting-impaired:

    ron paul is a fringe, marginal candidate for President of the USA

    he has no chance nationally

    you could break open every piggy bank and
    raise millions for all kinds of ads and placards
    and he will still not be elected

    running as a 3rd party candidate,
    l ron paul hubbard can only split or dilute the conservative vote

    this vote comes from registered Independents, GOP and Democrats

    the majority will go to the GOP candidate
    not ronpaulstiltskin

    QED the net effect of voting for rupaul will be to aid hillary clinton

    so the question becomes not,
    why not vote for the dr
    but
    why the hell would a "conservative" ever help liberals
    obtain control of the government

    i discovered that liberalism was a mental disorder long, long ago

    i used to have some respect for libertarianism

    with rupaul as its pie-eyed piper its now in the same (low) class
    Last edited by flushingjet; 11-06-2007 at 10:28 PM.

  14. #54
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    If you still think Ron Paul wants to go back to the 1800s Subtreasury system with state currencies then you are absolutely retarded and I hope to find a way to ignore your posts from now on.

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2199250]Also, Paul is not a protectionist nor is he anti-free trade. This couldn't be further from the truth and the fact that you mention this proves you know little about his stances. Show me where he's a protectionist.[/QUOTE]


    Remember BB....Certain people has been Bush enablers for the past 7 years. They are enrolled in the faux-republican school of repeating lies over and over and over again...to the point where people actually accept them as truth.

    You and I both know Paul isn't a protectionist. But people who believe in an anti-American unabated trade system with third world countries will repeat over an over again that Paul is a protectionist...hoping that this untruth will cloud the minds of uninformed people who don't know that much about Ron Paul-stilskin.

    Ron Pauls message?

    America first. Above Iraq. Above Israel. Above Mexico. America first.

    Individualism above collectivism.

    Constitution over executive order.

    Taxpayer above politicians.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=JetsCrazey;2199740]If you still think Ron Paul wants to go back to the 1800s Subtreasury system with state currencies then you are absolutely retarded and I hope to find a way to ignore your posts from now on.[/QUOTE]

    There have been countless examples of him not understanding Paul's take on issues. He'd rather think of really cute nicknames instead of deal with the facts. If you're going to bash someone, know what they stand for.

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2199807]Remember BB....Certain people has been Bush enablers for the past 7 years. They are enrolled in the faux-republican school of repeating lies over and over and over again...to the point where people actually accept them as truth.

    You and I both know Paul isn't a protectionist. But people who believe in an anti-American unabated trade system with third world countries will repeat over an over again that Paul is a protectionist...hoping that this untruth will cloud the minds of uninformed people who don't know that much about Ron Paul-stilskin.

    Ron Pauls message?

    America first. Above Iraq. Above Israel. Above Mexico. America first.

    Individualism above collectivism.

    Constitution over executive order.

    Taxpayer above politicians.[/QUOTE]
    I agree because I was one of them. As an actual conservative, I found myself initially defending Bush. But then I realized he wasn't a conservative. Oh yeah, and that whole competency thing.

  18. #58
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [quote=JetsCrazey;2199740]If you still think Ron Paul wants to go back to the 1800s Subtreasury system with state currencies then you are absolutely retarded and I hope to find a way to ignore your posts from now on.[/quote]

    well, you ron paulist monks can all keep drinking dr. paul's magic elixir,

    i could care less what the misguided ignore or not

    this coming from posters telling us about hitler coming to power
    because of airplane flight and so forth

    ignore facts at your own peril

  19. #59
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [quote=PlumberKhan;2199807]Remember BB....Certain people has been Bush enablers for the past 7 years. They are enrolled in the faux-republican school of repeating lies over and over and over again...to the point where people actually accept them as truth.

    You and I both know Paul isn't a protectionist. But people who believe in an anti-American unabated trade system with third world countries will repeat over an over again that Paul is a protectionist...hoping that this untruth will cloud the minds of uninformed people who don't know that much about Ron Paul-stilskin.

    Ron Pauls message?

    America first. Above Iraq. Above Israel. Above Mexico. America first.

    Individualism above collectivism.

    Constitution over executive order.

    Taxpayer above politicians.[/quote]


    banning trade with any country is free trade in what manner?

    banning free trade with Australia is because they're a 3rd world country?

    yes, habitually voting against free trade legislation and free trade organizations makes
    one very, very, very pro-free trade!

    dont bogart that joint, my friend

    bush is not a conservative, sure, but recent federal tax cuts that enriched us all would have been gone further w/ ... Gore? McCain? RuPaul?

    I got it, let's just scrap the presidency and do everything by committee of @550.
    wait, the president does have some constitutional powers
    [URL]http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article02/[/URL]

    sure, i know a charlatan when i see/hear one
    l ron paul hubbard's picture is in the dictionary next
    to the definition

    the powerless think they can gain power by voting for other powerless
    and the marginal
    uncanny reasoning
    if we unfortunately get president hillary! i know which principled
    anarcho-narco-"conservative"s to thank
    Last edited by flushingjet; 11-07-2007 at 09:40 AM.

  20. #60
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    1) Foreign Policy/Security - trumps all issues, at this point. I need someone who is realistic about foreign policy (and to me, that includes acknowledging that we'll be in Iraq at least another 3-5 years)

    2) Partisanship - a close second. I want someone who is comfortable crossing party lines and who has a chance to end the rancor and gamesmanship of washington politics (to me, that means Giuliani or McCain)

    3) Fuel - A plan to beef up investment in american fuel resources - be they nuclear, oil shale, biofuel, alternative energy sources, or whatever combination thereof.

    4) Economy

    5) education

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