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Thread: Our Ineffective Educational System........

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicadeel View Post
    I think the problem starts with parents. You have to provide some kind of structure for kids to learn and be productive. When I was a kid, I can remember being asked, where are your books for homework. Also hearing, your not going outside until your homework is finished. I couldn't imagine the repercussions of the teacher calling home to complain about something.

    No matter how qualified and capable a teacher is if the kid is not structured, disciplined and motivated they are not going to learn.
    I agree completely. I'm amazed at how dysfunctional some of the families of my wife's students are. I'm sure they are mainly the extreme cases, but it's so hard to believe. I've visited her classes in the past, and it is depressing. The kids are pretty good kids, but you can just tell when you meet some of the parents that these kids have little or no hope.

  2. #22
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    There are alot of good points in this thread, but my understanding of the original post was to list the strengths and weaknesses of the educational system.

    Bad parenting and culture go without saying, but realistically, there is very little that the government can do to improve education in this respect.

    I'd be very curious to see what people feel are the strengths and weaknesses of the system itself, and how things can be improved through legislation and funding.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    There are alot of good points in this thread, but my understanding of the original post was to list the strengths and weaknesses of the educational system.

    Bad parenting and culture go without saying, but realistically, there is very little that the government can do to improve education in this respect.

    I'd be very curious to see what people feel are the strengths and weaknesses of the system itself, and how things can be improved through legislation and funding.
    Yes but the lack of discipline aids tremendously to the system's failure.

    Poor curriculum is another. From my own experiences, more in-depth courses in math, sciences, geography, and history are pushed aside in favor of sex ed, home economics and other courses that can and should be learned at home.

    Also you have schools pushing students up the grade levels despite them not truly meeting all of the requirements.

    I've heard of children making it to 5th grade yet they still have trouble reading! That is revolting.
    Last edited by Sourceworx; 11-05-2007 at 02:47 PM.

  4. #24
    I think you can fund and legislate all you want but the basic fact still will always remain. If a kid is not structured and has no oversight and is not motivated to learn, they won't.
    So who would you direct the legislation towards, the parents? Who would you fund, the parents?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sourceworx View Post
    Poor curriculum is another. From my own experiences, more in-depth courses in math, sciences, geography, and history are pushed aside in favor of sex ed, home economics and other courses that can and should be learned at home.
    Very good point, but that is a slippery slope. Sex ed should be taught in school because it is a public health issue, and many households do a very poor job of teaching their children about this topic.

  6. #26
    You can put all the money you want into education and trying to change the system but it is sadly pointless unless the kids come from an environment where education is stressed and there are role models to look up to who are positive.

    I guess my suggestion would be to lengthen the school day and require after school programs.
    Last edited by mallamalla; 11-05-2007 at 03:01 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicadeel View Post
    I think you can fund and legislate all you want but the basic fact still will always remain. If a kid is not structured and has no oversight and is not motivated to learn, they won't.
    So who would you direct the legislation towards, the parents? Who would you fund, the parents?
    A very valid point, but like I stated earlier, there is very little that can be done by the government in terms of bad parenting and the general home environment when it comes to education. While the attitude of some parents is a direct detriment to education in this country, we should also recognize that the system itself can and should be improved.

    In terms of legislation towards parents, how about tax cuts to parents whose children meet some sort of criteria in school or on a standardized test? I'm not saying I support this, I'm just throwing it out there. It is an interesting concept that gives parents an incentive to become involved in their children's education and take matters into their own hands.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sourceworx View Post
    My wife is a first grade teacher in a charter school in a tough neighborhood in Queens (Far Rockaway). Before I get into my thoughts let me say that prior to her working as a teacher I thought they were useless. Her time there (this is her third year) has really changed my opinion on that. I have a ton of respect for what teachers go through every day. I wouldn't take that job for any amount of money.

    With that said from what I hear from her, a huge problem is the lack of discipline from home. So many kids that she deals with have parents that either let their kids get away with anything, or they just don't give a sh*t. Couple that with the fact that these days educators are powerless to properly discipline the students and you have a disaster. The teachers in the schools spend more time dealing with one or two kids who do not behave than they do teaching lessons to the rest of the class. Parents are called to either shape up their kids only to get cursed out or ignored. My wife has called parents to pick up their kids from school early because they are so disruptive that the rest of the class sits and does nothing while she's dealing with him, only to have the parent not show up until the end of the day. The mother will come in yelling at her saying "I have to work for a living!" and my wife tells her "So do I, and your child is preventing me from doing it!" She's told me stories from other teachers who experience similar things.

    Needless to say it's a major problem.

    Man, Patchogue to the Rock, talk about dedication,,,,

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    Very good point, but that is a slippery slope. Sex ed should be taught in school because it is a public health issue, and many households do a very poor job of teaching their children about this topic.
    I just do not understand why sex-ed is better learned at school than in the home? Kids are going to do what they are going to do sexually regardless of what they are taught in school. There is a reason why the majority of 14 year olds having babies come from uneducated homes. It is not the schools who are failing.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    A very valid point, but like I stated earlier, there is very little that can be done by the government in terms of bad parenting and the general home environment when it comes to education. While the attitude of some parents is a direct detriment to education in this country, we should also recognize that the system itself can and should be improved.

    In terms of legislation towards parents, how about tax cuts to parents whose children meet some sort of criteria in school or on a standardized test? I'm not saying I support this, I'm just throwing it out there. It is an interesting concept that gives parents an incentive to become involved in their children's education and take matters into their own hands.

    That is a great idea, but liberals would never allow this because they would say minorities are being discriminated agaisnt and only the rich benefit from this.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mallamalla View Post
    I just do not understand why sex-ed is better learned at school than in the home? Kids are going to do what they are going to do sexually regardless of what they are taught in school. There is a reason why the majority of 14 year olds having babies come from uneducated homes. It is not the schools who are failing.
    It is not better learned in school, but it is a necessity because of failures in the home. There should be a safety net for essential, life altering topics such as sex ed.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvajet99 View Post
    Man, Patchogue to the Rock, talk about dedication,,,,
    Yeah it's a hike for her. I put in a decent commute as well, going to New Hyde Park every day.

    It's not dedication though. She has no choice. There's not many available teaching jobs on LI these days.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mallamalla View Post
    That is a great idea, but liberals would never allow this because they would say minorities are being discriminated agaisnt and only the rich benefit from this.
    That is exactly what came to my mind when I first suggested it. Personally, I don't see how it is discriminatory if the same opportunities and benefits are given to all.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sourceworx View Post
    It's not dedication though. She has no choice. There's not many available teaching jobs on LI these days.
    In your opinion, does tenure play a large role in this limited availability of teaching jobs?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    In your opinion, does tenure play a large role in this limited availability of teaching jobs?
    No. I blame the enormous amount of grads out there with teaching degrees. We could move down south and she'd find a job in a heartbeat. The problem is I'd have to take a huge paycut. Down south, salaries in my field don't even come close to what I'm getting here.

    Plus we like the cooler weather.

  16. #36
    Me and my friends were recently discussing a business idea that I think could be very profitible. We talked about starting a school where the teachers, as part of their salary, would share the profits. This would hopefully recruit the top teachers and thus, encourage parents to pay top dollar for the best possible education.

    I know this has nothing to do with this thread, because the problems with education are more related to things that exist outside the classroom in poor, uneducated areas.

  17. #37
    How about if kids are disruptive and fail to pass the parents must come in with the kids to night classes until the kid gets a passing grade.

    No excuses, night classes or community service for you and your kids. The rational being you and your kids become a burden to society.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by chicadeel View Post
    How about if kids are disruptive and fail to pass the parents must come in with the kids to night classes until the kid gets a passing grade.

    No excuses, night classes or community service for you and your kids. The rational being you and your kids become a burden to society.
    again, liberals wouldnt dare allow this and much of the school systems are run by liberals.

    I am not trying to blame our failed education on the liberals, I am just stating that any idea that might lead to punishing kids or taking an aggressive stance against parents/kids would be shot down because liberals represent the people who would most likely be affected by these changes.
    Last edited by mallamalla; 11-05-2007 at 03:58 PM.

  19. #39
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    Liberals have screwed society as a whole. They make African Americans and others dependent on them, it is a never ending cycle. Keep on dumning people up and make them beholding to the government!

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MnJetFan View Post
    Liberals have screwed society as a whole. They make African Americans and others dependent on them, it is a never ending cycle. Keep on dumning people up and make them beholding to the government!
    Oh, come on...this isn't true at all. Without liberals, society would have progressed at a much slower rate.

    The key is to be open minded and find common ground. Without extemes at both ends, things would fall out of balance and ideas would not be kept in check.

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