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Thread: The presidency of GWB has now devolved into a criminal conspiracy...(vid)

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    The presidency of GWB has now devolved into a criminal conspiracy...(vid)

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arWJ358tZgU[/url]




    [QUOTE]In his latest fire-breathing Special Comment Keith tears into President Bush for firing a true patriot that spoke out against torture, while cowardly and simultaneously ordering others to commit the very same heinous crime.


    No matter how thorough you might try to brand disagreement as disloyalty, Mr Bush, there are still people like Daniel Levin who believe in the United States of America as true freedom, where we are better not because of schemes and wars, but because of dreams and morals. And ultimately, sir, these men, these patriots will defeat you and they will return this country to its righteous standards, and to its rightful owners: The People.

    Transcript below the fold…


    Finally tonight, as promised, a Special Comment on the meaning of the story of former U.S. Acting Assistant Attorney General Daniel Levin.

    It is a fact startling in its cynical simplicity and it requires cynical and simple words to be properly expressed:

    The presidency of George W. Bush has now devolved into a criminal conspiracy to cover the ass of George W. Bush.

    All the petulancy, all the childish threats, all the blank-stare stupidity;

    All the invocations of World War Three, all the sophistic questions about which terrorist attacks we wanted him not to stop, all the phony secrets; all the claims of executive privilege, all the stumbling tap-dancing of his nominees, all the verbal flatulence of his apologists…

    All of it is now — after one revelation last week — transparently clear for what it is: the pathetic and desperate manipulation of the government, the re-focusing of our entire nation, towards keeping this mock president, and this unstable vice president, and this departed wildly self-over-rating Attorney General — and the others — from potential prosecution for having approved or ordered the illegal torture of prisoners being held in the name of this country.

    “Waterboarding is torture,” Daniel Levin was to write.

    Daniel Levin was no theorist and no protestor.

    He was no troublemaking politician.

    He was no table-pounding commentator.

    Daniel Levin was an astonishingly patriotic American, and a brave man.

    Brave not just with words or with stances — even in a dark time when that kind of bravery can usually be scared — or bought — off.

    Charged — as you heard in the story from ABC News last Friday — with assessing the relative legality of the various nightmares in the Pandora’s box that is the Orwell-worthy euphemism “Enhanced Interrogation,” Mr. Levin decided that the simplest, and the most honest, way to evaluate them… was to have them enacted upon himself.

    Daniel Levin took himself to a military base and let himself be water-boarded.

    Mr. Bush — ever done anything that personally courageous?

    Perhaps when you’ve gone to Walter Reed and teared up over the maimed servicemen? And then gone back to the White House and determined that there would be more maimed servicemen?

    Has it been that kind of personal courage, Mr. Bush, when you’ve spoken of American victims and the triumph of freedom and the sacrifice of your own popularity for the sake of our safety? And then permitted others to fire or discredit or destroy anybody who disagreed with you — whether they were your own Generals, or… Max Cleland, or… Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame… or Daniel Levin?

    Daniel Levin should have a statue in his honor in Washington right now.

    Instead, he was forced out as Acting Assistant Attorney General, nearly three years ago, because he had the guts to do what George Bush couldn’t do in a million years: actually put himself at risk for the sake of his country, for the sake of what is right.

    And they water-boarded him and he wrote that even though he knew those doing it meant him no harm, and he knew they would rescue him at the instant of the slightest distress, and he knew he would not die — still, with all that reassurance, he could not stop the terror screaming from inside of him, could not quell the horror, could not convince that which is at the core of each of us — the entity who exists behind all the embellishments we strap to ourselves, like purpose and name and family and love — he could not convince his being… that he wasn’t drowning.

    Water-boarding, he said, is torture.

    Legally, it is torture!

    Practically, it is torture!

    Ethically, it is torture!

    And he wrote it down.

    Wrote it down somewhere, where it could be contrasted with the words of this country’s 43rd President: “The United States of America does not torture.”

    Made you into a liar, Mr. Bush.

    Made you into, if anybody had the guts to pursue it, a criminal, Mr. Bush.

    Water-boarding had already been used on Khalid Sheik Mohammed and a couple of other men none of us really care about — except, Sir, for the one detail you’d forgotten — that there are rules, and even if we just make up these rules, this country observes them anyway, because we’re Americans, sir, and we’re better than that.

    We’re better than you.

    And the man your Justice Department selected to decide whether or not water-boarding was torture, had decided, and not in some phony academic fashion, nor while wearing the Walter Mitty poseur attire of flight-suit and helmet.

    He had put his money, Mr. Bush, where your mouth was.

    So, your sleazy sycophantic henchman Mr. Gonzales had him append an asterisk suggesting his black-and-white answer wasn’t black-and-white, that there might have been a quasi-legal way of torturing people, maybe with an absolute time limit and a physician entitled to stop it, maybe, if your administration had ever bothered to set any rules or any guidelines…

    And then when your people realized that even that was too dangerous, Daniel Levin was branded “too independent” and “someone who could (not) be counted on.”

    In other words, Mr. Bush, somebody you couldn’t count on to lie for you.

    So, Levin was fired.

    Because if it ever got out what he’d concluded, and the lengths to which he went, to validate that conclusion, anybody who had sanctioned water-boarding, and who-knows-what-else… anybody — you yourself, sir — you would have been screwed.

    And screwed you are.

    It can’t be coincidence that the story of Daniel Levin should emerge from the black hole of this secret society of a presidency just at the conclusion of the unhappy saga of the newest Attorney General Nominee.

    Another patriot somewhere, listened as Judge Mukasey mumbled like he’d never heard of water-boarding, and refuse to answer in words that which Daniel Levin answered on a water-board somewhere in Maryland or Virginia three years ago.

    And this someone also heard George Bush say “The United States of America does not torture” and realized either he was lying or this wasn’t the United States of America any more, and either way, he needed to do something about it.

    Not in the way Levin needed to do something about it, but in a brave way nonetheless.

    We have United States Senators who need to do something about it, too.

    Chairman Leahy of the Judiciary Committee has seen this for what it is and said “enough.”

    Senator Schumer has seen it, reportedly, as some kind of puzzle piece in the New York political patronage system and he has failed.

    What Senator Feinstein has seen, to justify joining Schumer in rubber-stamping Mukasey, I cannot guess.

    It is obvious that both those Senators should look to the meaning of the story of Daniel Levin and recant their support for Mukasey’s confirmation.

    And they should look into their own committee’s history and recall that in 1973, their predecessors were able to wring even from Richard Nixon, a guarantee of a Special Prosecutor (ultimately a Special Prosecutor of Richard Nixon!), in exchange for their approval of his new Attorney General, Elliott Richardson.

    If they could get that out of Nixon, you — before you confirm the President’s latest human echo tomorrow — you better be able to get a “yes” or a “no” out of Michael Mukasey.

    Ideally, you should lock this government down financially until a special prosecutor is appointed — or fifty of them — but I’m not holding my breath. The “yes” or the “no” on water-boarding will have to suffice.

    Because, remember if you can’t get it, or you won’t with the time between tonight and the next presidential election likely to be the longest year of our lives, you are leaving this country, and all of us, to the water-boards — symbolic and otherwise — of George W. Bush.

    Ultimately, Mr. Bush, the real question isn’t who approved the water-boarding of this fiend Khalid Sheik Mohammed and two others.

    It is: why were they water-boarded?

    Study after study for generation after generation, sir, has confirmed that torture gets people to talk, torture gets people to plead, torture gets people to break, but torture does not get them to tell the truth.

    Of course, Mr. Bush, this isn’t a problem if you don’t care if the terrorist plots they tell you about, are the truth or just something to stop the tormentors from drowning them.

    If, say, a President simply needed a constant supply of terrorist threats to keep a country scared…

    If, say, he needed phony plots to play hero during, and to boast about interrupting, and to use to distract people from the threat he didn’t interrupt…

    If, say, he realized that even terrorized people still need good ghost stories before they will let a President pillage the Constitution…

    Well, heck, Mr. Bush, who better to dream them up for you… than an actual terrorist?

    He’ll tell you every thing he ever fantasized doing, in his most horrific of daydreams — his equivalent of the day you “flew” onto the deck of the Lincoln to explain you’d won in Iraq.

    Now if that’s what this is all about — you tortured not because you’re so stupid you think torture produces confession — but you tortured because you’re smart enough to know it produces really authentic-sounding fiction — well, then you’re going to need all the lawyers you can find because that crime wouldn’t just mean impeachment, would it, sir?

    That crime would mean George W. Bush is going to prison.

    Thus the master tumblers turn, and the lock yields, and the hidden explanations can all be perceived, in their exact proportions, in their exact progressions.

    Daniel Levin’s eminently practical, eminently logical, eminently patriotic way of testing the legality of waterboarding has to vanish — and him, with it.

    Thus Alberto Gonzales has to use that brain that sounds like an old car trying to start on a freezing morning, to undo eight centuries of the forward march of law and government.

    Thus Dick Cheney, has to ridiculously assert that confirming we do or do not use any particular interrogation technique, would somehow help the terrorists.

    Thus Michael Mukasey, on the eve of the vote that will make him the high priest of the law of this land, cannot and must not answer a question, nor even hint that he has thought about a question, which merely concerns the theoretical definition of water-boarding as torture.

    Because, Mr. Bush, in the seven years of your nightmare presidency, this whole string of events has been transformed from its beginning as the most neglectful protection ever, of the lives and safety of the American people into the most efficient and cynical exploitation of tragedy for political gain in this country’s history.

    And, then, to the giddying prospect that you could do what the military fanatics did in Japan in the 1930’s and re-make a nation into a fascist state so efficient and so self-sustaining, that the fascism would be nearly invisible.

    But at last this frightful plan is ending with an unexpected crash, the shocking reality that no matter how thoroughly you might try to extinguish them, Mr. Bush, how thoroughly you tried to brand disagreement as disloyalty, Mr. Bush, there are still people like Daniel Levin who believe in the United States of America as true freedom, where we are better, not because of schemes and wars, but because of dreams and morals.

    And ultimately, sir, these men, these patriots, will defeat you and they will return this country to its righteous standards, and to its rightful owners, the people.

    Good night, and good luck.[/QUOTE]

  2. #2
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    wow... I'm impressed the guy had it done to himself to see first hand if it qualifies as torture (I always thought so myself, but I don't have the balls to find out for real!)



    and of course he gets pushed out of the government because we can't have anyone in government who is actually competent, now can we?

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    Sir, not in this administration......

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    Hey if it keeps my family and I safe. have at it! What are the liberals and other bleeding hearts offering us. Kiss and tell?.

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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2200193]Hey if it keeps my family and I safe. have at it! What are the liberals and other bleeding hearts offering us. Kiss and tell?.[/QUOTE]

    How about the Geneva Convention Rules that have been in place for 6 decades or so?

    This administration just hates rules like the GC and the constitution....

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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2200193]Hey if it keeps my family and I safe. have at it! What are the liberals and other bleeding hearts offering us. Kiss and tell?.[/QUOTE]

    How exactly is it keeping you and your family safer? You have allowed the leadership of this country to use fear as a tool to push their agenda and justify clearly immoral acts.

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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2200193]Hey if it keeps my family and I safe. have at it! What are the liberals and other bleeding hearts offering us. Kiss and tell?.[/QUOTE]


    MnJetFan, it's difficult for me to respond rationally to such a post. But here it goes...

    1- Since when does torture keep your family safe? Explain to me with some evidence how and why torture is a reliable way to either get info or deter an action.

    2- We are the United States, the beacon of freedom, the guardian of liberty, the defender of due process. Our past leaders have described our country as a shining city upon a hill. Why do we have to degrade ourselves into what our enemy is? All of the neo-cons prolly will respond by saying that it's a different world and we can't play paddy-cake or as you put it "kiss and tell." But I say that's crap, the world is not nor will ever be black and white.

    3- Just because liberals don't want to torture people like our terrorist enemies that makes them weak, as if the choice is either torture or lollipops and stickers.

    You seem like a pretty nice guy from your posts, albeit a tad simplistic when it comes to politics, someone who just wants our country to be safe and to secure a good life for generations to come... but when you start sacrificing who we are, what our values are, and what we represent then in the end we lose. Being American is more than having the right to buy cheap stuff at the mall after driving your SUV there on cheap gas.

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    [QUOTE=bigalbarracuda;2200293]someone who just wants our country to be safe and to secure a good life for generations to come... but when you start sacrificing who we are, what our values are, and what we represent then in the end we lose.[/QUOTE]

    And what do we do, when the very freedoms we cherish, the rights earned by two centuries of blood, are the very tools used against us? When our freedoms give others free movement within our borders? When our welcoming nature gives rise to unfettered invasion of illegals and God knows whomever else? When our desire to be moral leaves tools in the bag of our defense? When our desire to be better earns our people the most diabolical and grotesque deaths imaginable when captured or kidnapped? When our open nature to all faiths allows one faith to espouse hatred for everythign we are, within our own borders?

    You call him simplistic, yet you fail (and almost every Left-leaner I know fails) to see how a SMART enemy can use the very basic principles of freedom, the rights we have (and have so foolishly given to everyone, citizen or not, legal or not), the very basic tenants of American freedom, as a dagger, to stab us in the heart from the inside.

    No, seemingly the way the Left-leaners see it, there IS no threat at all. Radical Fundementalist Islamofasism, in it's various forms, is but a knat to be ignored. Terrorism, and the threat of Nuclear proliferation, are just "fear tactics", no real danger.

    And worst of all, you far too often AGREE with those who wish to see this country torn down (because we're eveil and mean ya know) and rebuilt into some Social Welfare State, who gives rights and money to any comer in the World, by taxing it's own people at 99%. Equallity, after all, must be enforced by the Govt. without question in YOUR world.

    Nope, no threats at all, only the eveil Conservatives. That is the world you see.

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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;2200213]How about the Geneva Convention Rules that have been in place for 6 decades or so?

    This administration just hates rules like the GC and the constitution....[/QUOTE]

    The Geneva Convention covered uniformed soldiers for a specific country. Not terrorists who wear no uniforms, who do not abide by any law! Not even Islamac law!

  10. #10
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    Olbermann better enjoy the remaining year of the Bush administration. When Hillary becomes President, he'll have nothing to talk about.

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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2200344]The Geneva Convention covered uniformed soldiers for a specific country. Not terrorists who wear no uniforms, who do not abide by any law! Not even Islamac law![/QUOTE]


    However, we are using [B]our uniformed troops [/B]to do the fighting. We cannot engage in behavior that brings us to a level of gutteral humanity no matter who we are fighting

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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2200193]Hey if it keeps my family and I safe. have at it! What are the liberals and other bleeding hearts offering us. Kiss and tell?.[/QUOTE]
    Why do you assume its keeping your family safe? What evidence do you have that water boarding is effective and provides reliable information. There lots of evidence that it is not effective, please tell us why you disagree with that

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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2200704]Why do you assume its keeping your family safe? What evidence do you have that water boarding is effective and provides reliable information. There lots of evidence that it is not effective, please tell us why you disagree with that[/QUOTE]

    Can you list or cite your evidence of ineffectiveness?

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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2200704]Why do you assume its keeping your family safe? What evidence do you have that water boarding is effective and provides reliable information. There lots of evidence that it is not effective, please tell us why you disagree with that[/QUOTE]

    George Tenent said the waterboarding of KSM gained information that saved hundreds, if not thousands of lives.

    Hell kenny, one of them could have been yours....

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    [QUOTE=HDCentStOhio;2200724]Can you list or cite your evidence of ineffectiveness?[/QUOTE]

    I have in the past. Look it up yourself.

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    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;2200739]George Tenent said the waterboarding of KSM gained information that saved hundreds, if not thousands of lives.

    Hell kenny, one of them could have been yours....[/QUOTE]


    George Tenet said that??
    Then I definitely believe it. After all George Tenet was never wrong about anything. Thats why he has the presidential medal of freedom

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2200844]George Tenet said that??
    Then I definitely believe it. After all George Tenet was never wrong about anything. Thats why he has the presidential medal of freedom[/QUOTE]

    You're like a broken record kenny. I KNEW that would be the response I'd get from you.

    George Tenent was head of the CIA and I'm sure he sat in on a waterboarding session or two of KSM.

    How about you?

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    Kennyo7 that is the 'George' that linked AQ to Saddam:yes:

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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;2200860]Kennyo7 that is the 'George' that linked AQ to Saddam:yes:[/QUOTE]

    I'll take George Tenent's word over yours.

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    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;2200874]I'll take George Tenent's word over yours.[/QUOTE]

    That's your choice

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