Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 172

Thread: The presidency of GWB has now devolved into a criminal conspiracy...(vid)

  1. #41
    Torture takes place in every war and on both sides of the coin. The problem here as I see it is that this administration has approved some techniques that probably don't get used in a combat situation.

    Then when the report comes out that it is illegal, they go ahead and implement the technique(s). That's where the rub comes in. They fire the man who brings the news to them making the sore larger.

    No one is above the law and when the staff members of this admin lose their immunity they may be charged. Hell if this congress had some balls (or money) they may have proceded with impeachment hearings.

    The USA, particularly at the executive level should never come out and say that they approve of torture. The best bet is to leave it at the field level where the enemy combatant will ultimately end up dead anyway.

  2. #42
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;2201675]

    No one is above the law and when the staff members of this admin lose their immunity they may be charged. Hell if this congress had some balls (or money) they may have proceded with impeachment hearings.

    The USA, particularly at the executive level should never come out and say that they approve of torture. The best bet is to leave it at the field level where the enemy combatant will ultimately end up dead anyway.[/QUOTE]

    I'd like to interrupt this liberal circle jerk for a moment to remind you that probably 80% of this country approves of waterboarding AQ members. And that goes a long way to explaining why an impeachment attempt of Bush won't happen - his stances are more popular than the ones of those who want him 'frog-marched'.

    If that number is wrong, it's still a clear, clear majority of Americans. And for a bunch who loves measuring approval ratings for personalities in politics or wanting troops home from Iraq ([I]oh those numbers[/I]), yet you get curiously free of approval ratings when it comes to other causes near and dear to your hearts - because they f'ing blow.

    Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants anyone?
    Last edited by sackdance; 11-08-2007 at 12:11 PM.

  3. #43
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,408
    [QUOTE=sackdance;2201754]I'd like to interrupt this liberal circle jerk for a moment to remind you that probably 80% of this country approves of waterboarding AQ members. And that goes a long way to explaining why an impeachment attempt of Bush won't happen - his stances are more popular than the ones of those who want him 'frog-marched'.

    If that number is wrong, it's still a clear, clear majority of Americans. And for a bunch who loves measuring approval ratings for personalities in politics or wanting troops home from Iraq ([I]oh those numbers[/I]), yet you get curiously free of approval ratings when it comes to other causes near and dear to your hearts - because they f'ing blow.

    Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants anyone?[/QUOTE]

    why stop at licenses???

    waterboarding terrorists who have killed or helped plan the killing of 1000's of innocents????? bad-bad-bad-bad-bad-bad.....

    killing unborn babies, abortion, abortion on demand, live birth abortion???? okay-okay-okay-okay.....

    it's a lib thang...

  4. #44
    I happen to be anti abortion and anti torture

  5. #45
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;2201922]I happen to be anti abortion and anti torture[/QUOTE]

    And Anti-American....

  6. #46
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    23,190
    [QUOTE=sackdance;2201754]I'd like to interrupt this liberal circle jerk for a moment to remind you that probably 80% of this country approves of waterboarding AQ members. And that goes a long way to explaining why an impeachment attempt of Bush won't happen - his stances are more popular than the ones of those who want him 'frog-marched'.

    If that number is wrong, it's still a clear, clear majority of Americans. And for a bunch who loves measuring approval ratings for personalities in politics or wanting troops home from Iraq ([I]oh those numbers[/I]), yet you get curiously free of approval ratings when it comes to other causes near and dear to your hearts - because they f'ing blow.

    Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants anyone?[/QUOTE]


    Waterboarding is gay.

    Is waterboarding only good to glean intel from non-Americans? If it is such a great way to get info...why stop at using it on foreigners?

    Why not use it to extract info in RICO cases?

    Why not use it to get info on drug dealers who terrorize local populations?

    Why not use it to disband organized crime?

    Why not use it to put away child molesters?

    Why not use it to get info in capitol murder cases?

    Why not waterboard parents when their kids go missing to ensure that they are not behind their disappearance?

    Why not waterboard every criminal currently incarcerated in US prisons in order to really bring the hammer down on crime in the US?


    If waterboarding was ACTUALLY useful and ACTUALLY dependable and ACTUALLY not torture domestic law enforcement would already use it. There's a reason why we don't.

  7. #47
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;2200213]How about the Geneva Convention Rules that have been in place for 6 decades or so?

    This administration just hates rules like the GC and the constitution....[/QUOTE]

    Geneva Convention doesn't apply when you are dealing with people who strap bombs to their chest and get on buses.

    i have no problem with this country doing whatever it feels it has to do to ensure the safety of its people.

    If that means torture then I say have at it!

  8. #48
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2202276]Waterboarding is gay.

    Is waterboarding only good to glean intel from non-Americans? If it is such a great way to get info...why stop at using it on foreigners?

    Why not use it to extract info in RICO cases?

    Why not use it to get info on drug dealers who terrorize local populations?

    Why not use it to disband organized crime?

    Why not use it to put away child molesters?

    Why not use it to get info in capitol murder cases?

    Why not waterboard parents when their kids go missing to ensure that they are not behind their disappearance?

    Why not waterboard every criminal currently incarcerated in US prisons in order to really bring the hammer down on crime in the US?


    If waterboarding was ACTUALLY useful and ACTUALLY dependable and ACTUALLY not torture domestic law enforcement would already use it. There's a reason why we don't.[/QUOTE]

    Because the ACLU defends all the kid touchers and now SF lets the crack heads shoot up in government managed facilities.

  9. #49
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    6,997
    [QUOTE=Jetfan_Johnny;2202304]i have no problem with this country doing whatever it feels it has to do to ensure the safety of its people.

    If that means torture then I say have at it![/QUOTE]

    I feel the same way, but we should not be publicly acknowledging and endorsing such tactics. Doing so only gives further justification in the minds of our enemies.

  10. #50
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,408
    [QUOTE=parafly;2202332]I feel the same way, but we should not be publicly acknowledging and endorsing such tactics. Doing so only gives further justification in the minds of our enemies.[/QUOTE]

    nor should people like chuck schumer and others who, at points in their career, have said it may be a neccessary evil, all of a sudden act like it is a horrible thing to do in an attempt to gain nothing more than political points....

  11. #51
    [QUOTE=parafly;2202332]I feel the same way, but we should not be publicly acknowledging and endorsing such tactics. Doing so only gives further justification in the minds of our enemies.[/QUOTE]

    You're worried about what is in "the MInds of our Enemies" over us torturing them. I'd say it might just be fear, what do you think?

    And let me ask, if you're so concerned with what may be in the "minds of our enemies", how about all the Dems talk about "War is Lost, American Soldiers are Cold Blooder Killers, etc, etc, etc." and better yet, the various leaks to our Media about exactly what our plans and tactics are?

    You worries about that stuff too?

  12. #52
    [QUOTE=Jetfan_Johnny;2202304]Geneva Convention doesn't apply when you are dealing with people who strap bombs to their chest and get on buses.

    [B]i have no problem with this country doing whatever it feels it has to do to ensure the safety of its people. [/B]

    If that means torture then I say have at it![/QUOTE]

    That is where problems start. The moment you start allowing torture, spying on Americans w/o a warrant, limiting freedoms on the guise that "you are doing it to secure the nation" you are going down the path towards dictatorship.

  13. #53
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    6,997
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2202348]nor should people like chuck schumer and others who, at points in their career, have said it may be a neccessary evil, all of a sudden act like it is a horrible thing to do in an attempt to gain nothing more than political points....[/QUOTE]

    Flip flopping is the nature of politics. They all do it.

  14. #54
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    6,997
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2202350]You're worried about what is in "the MInds of our Enemies" over us torturing them. I'd say it might just be fear, what do you think?

    And let me ask, if you're so concerned with what may be in the "minds of our enemies", how about all the Dems talk about "War is Lost, American Soldiers are Cold Blooder Killers, etc, etc, etc." and better yet, the various leaks to our Media about exactly what our plans and tactics are?

    You worries about that stuff too?[/QUOTE]

    Yes, the minds of our current and future enemies. Once we cross the torture line, there is no going back. Even if we are to fight a conventional war somewhere down the line, it will come back to bite us. Moral high ground may not mean much to you, but we need to maintain that image if we want to remain a superpower.

    "War is lost" is an opinion. Torture is a physical tactic. You are comparing apples to oranges.

    "American soldiers are cold blooded killers?" What Dem said that as a generality of all our soldiers?

  15. #55
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    23,190
    [QUOTE=Jetfan_Johnny;2202309]Because the ACLU defends all the kid touchers and now SF lets the crack heads shoot up in government managed facilities.[/QUOTE]

    Ahh.........no.

    The ACLU is not the reason waterboarding is not used in the course of criminal investigations in the US.

    And it also isn't because the kid touchers and crack heads are American citizens.



    Torture made hundreds of people confess to being witches. How many of those people do you think were ACTUALLY witches?



    No. The reason torture is not used routinely in domestic investigations is because the US legal system was founded on a belief system put in place by the founders.

    A system of the rights of individuals above the rights of many.

    Individualism vs. collectivism.


    I would rather have the right to defend myself from terrorists than rely on the ineffectual government to do so.

    How many of those planes would have been hijacked on 9/11 had every passenger been carrying a gun?

    Who took away my right to bear arms anywhere I go?

    Those ACLU a-holes you referred to in your post?



    I would much rather hole up in a cabin in the Rockies, armed to the teeth...than be a little whiny sheeple crying about how scared I am of terrorists and wanting the big big government to do everything to save my pussified a**, even if that means giving up my liberties.


    This country has gone from THE ONLY THING WE HAVE TO FEAR IS FEAR ITSELF and GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH to ARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!! Save me Mr. Government Man. Here! Take my liberties. Just dont let me die.

  16. #56
    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;2202193]And Anti-American....[/QUOTE]

    You my friend are a complete fool and certainly not a patriot. Where is your evidence to back up what you said in this thread?

  17. #57
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    1,006
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2202469]Ahh.........no

    .......


    A system of the rights of individuals above the rights of many.

    Individualism vs. collectivism.


    ................................

    I would much rather hole up in a cabin in the Rockies, armed to the teeth...than be a little whiny sheeple crying about how scared I am of terrorists and wanting the big big government to do everything to save my pussified a**, even if that means giving up my liberties.


    [B]This country has gone from THE ONLY THING WE HAVE TO FEAR IS FEAR ITSELF and GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH to ARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!! Save me Mr. Government Man. Here! Take my liberties. Just dont let me die[/B].[/QUOTE]

    Powerful stuff man... you're freaking dead on.

    It doesn't hit home with people because they just can't see the stripping away of their liberties as personally affecting them. Deep down in their black and white world view they say "Hey... I'm not a terrorist. If the gov't does this it will never effect me."

    Nevermind the story of Alan and Margaret McSurely, young civil rights workers who in 1967 had local law enforcement break into their home, seize all of their belongings and throw them in jail. Their crime, ownership of seditious material with the intention of distribution... in this case civil rights pamphlets.

    This could never be them though so why worry they say.... but mention the magic word and they flip a sh1t about gov't intrusion and the merits of American individualism. TAXES!!! OMG TAXES!!! I made that money get your hand out of my pocket Federal Man. Hypocrites.

  18. #58
    [QUOTE=parafly;2202368]Yes, the minds of our current and future enemies. [B][U]Once we cross the torture line, there is no going back. [/U][/B] Even if we are to fight a conventional war somewhere down the line, it will come back to bite us. Moral high ground may not mean much to you, but we need to maintain that image if we want to remain a superpower.

    "War is lost" is an opinion. Torture is a physical tactic. You are comparing apples to oranges.

    "American soldiers are cold blooded killers?" What Dem said that as a generality of all our soldiers?[/QUOTE]

    Really? Might want to check your history my friend. The US has a long history of torture and murder in the name of the State. Ask an Indian about crossing that line.....if you can find one.

    And I really LOVE your excuse making, really, absolutely priceless. Torture (hurting enemies) is bad cause it supposedly makes our Enemies what? Not respect us? Ha ha, too late.

    But Saying a War is Lost (and by saying, I mean high level Elected Officials) doesn;t hurt anything, it's just an "opinion". I'm sure our Enemies hear that and say "Hey, it's just that guys opinion, don't mean nothing. Maybe I won;t go shooting Americas today, we MIGHT be losing"

    And as to your last, if you cannot recall the various indictments of our Soliders in such term, I don't3 not have the time to reserach your ignorance for you. Might want to start paying attention to what your Party says once in a while, both officially and via their leak-operatives at the NY Times.

  19. #59
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,408
    [QUOTE=bigalbarracuda;2202564]Powerful stuff man... you're freaking dead on.

    It doesn't hit home with people because they just can't see the stripping away of their liberties as personally affecting them. Deep down in their black and white world view they say "Hey... I'm not a terrorist. If the gov't does this it will never effect me."

    Nevermind the story of Alan and Margaret McSurely, young civil rights workers who in 1967 had local law enforcement break into their home, seize all of their belongings and throw them in jail. Their crime, ownership of seditious material with the intention of distribution... in this case civil rights pamphlets.

    This could never be them though so why worry they say.... but mention the magic word and they flip a sh1t about gov't intrusion and the merits of American individualism. TAXES!!! OMG TAXES!!! I made that money get your hand out of my pocket Federal Man. Hypocrites.[/QUOTE]

    wow man... some really deep and powerful stuff...thought provoking.....I mean the comparisons to the McSorely's during the days of government officials such as Bill Moyers who spied on MLK is just so right on.....:rolleyes:

    I mean, I'm sure you could easily back up your statements with tons of evidence from people who had their liberties taken away the past six years like the McSurely's dude....:yes:

    be verrryyy careful...dem pesky government officials are out to get you....:zzz:

  20. #60
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    1,006
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2202579]Really? Might want to check your history my friend. The US has a long history of torture and murder in the name of the State. Ask an Indian about crossing that line.....if you can find one.

    And I really LOVE your excuse making, really, absolutely priceless. [B]Torture (hurting enemies) is bad cause it supposedly makes our Enemies what? Not respect us? Ha ha, too late.[/B]

    But Saying a War is Lost (and by saying,[B] I mean high level Elected Officials[/B]) doesn;t hurt anything, it's just an "opinion". I'm sure our Enemies hear that and say "Hey, it's just that guys opinion, don't mean nothing. Maybe I won;t go shooting Americas today, we MIGHT be losing"

    And as to your last, if you cannot recall the various indictments of our Soliders in such term, I don't3 not have the time to reserach your ignorance for you. Might want to start paying attention to what your Party says once in a while, both officially and via their leak-operatives at the NY Times.[/QUOTE]


    Two questions for you since you're so on the ball these past few days...

    1- You think that we care what terrorists think of us? You think that any of us could give a flying sh1t about what Osama thinks of us? You think that Al Qaeda's opinion of the U.S. is of huge concern to us? Is that what you really think Dr. Warfish?

    You're a real genius on this issue aren't you... fighting this for the sake of fighting.

    [B]We care about what the normal everyday non-terrorist, non-AQ population thinks of us.... because if they see we are torturing and maiming and then we go around and say we are here to liberate and bring you freedom then we LOSE them to AQ and they are recruited. You're logic is so flawed it's sickening, I literally just puked all over a picture of an eyeball just to make myself feel better.[/B] Ofcourse in your mind they are either already lost or you don't care what they think and if they become AQ then who cares we'll just kill them anyway.

    2- So let me get this straight professor....

    Democrats (who have no military power whatsoever until they gain the presidency and therefore become the commander-in-chief) dictate our military policy. Kind of like how Ahmadinejad (no military power at all under the Iranian constitution) will bomb us as soon as he gets a nuke. Riggght. You're a regular Plato.

    And don't give me any "Oh they see us arguing and see it as a sign of weakness" or "well the Dems could cut off funding" bullsh1t. They know who's president and that we aren't going anywhere for a while, and they know cutting off funding would be political suicide.

    If they're so smart our enemies, as you previously pointed out, and they can figure out all of the intricacies of our liberties, laws and rights don't you think they could see this too? You can't have it both ways dude.

    Oh and your statement that the U.S. has a long history of torture and murder and is therefore ok is perhaps the most ridiculous justification I have seen yet. I used to kill people and have a history of doing it so therefore why are you getting on my case about it now? Haha laughable... I guess it's all "Ends justify the means" for you huh? Well guess what? Machiavelli didn't write the constitution, the Dec. of Indepence, the Federalist Papers or the Bill of Rights.

    Check your U.S. history.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us