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Thread: Waterboarding is torture

  1. #41
    Jets Insider VIP
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    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;2204529]Funny stuff coming from a Jihadi like yourself.[/QUOTE]

    they are the best propaganda terrorists have.....

  2. #42
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2204568]they are the best propaganda terrorists have.....[/QUOTE]

    Useful idiots.

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;2204537]Not even one of John McCain's mangled arm?[/QUOTE]

    That's because John McCain is a cowardly traitor.

    Or at least that's what the Bush camp said in the 2000 election. And everybody knows everything they say is true and to never ever be questioned or you are giving comfort to a terrorist.

  4. #44
    [QUOTE=Queens Jet Fan;2204207]So we are bound by the rules we come up with. Who is the we? The military? The President? Congress? Courts? Are we in extraconstitutional territory here? Is there any oversight on the decision makers? We are not an authoritarian regime where all the power are in the hands of a few. This administration seems to act like one.

    Most of the experts on interregation say that torture is not affective. There are better ways to come up with the information. On a base level torture is satisfying because these are really bad people, and we want to hurt them badly.

    However if the motive is to get really useful information out of them it appears that torturing is not the way to go.[/QUOTE]

    Are you against water boarding on humane grounds, or are you against it because it may not be a useful way of gathering information?

    Quite frankly, I couldn't care less about torturing individuals who would commit mass murder like that which occurred on 9/11/01.
    Last edited by JetsFanatic; 11-11-2007 at 08:54 AM.

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=JetsFanatic;2205222]Quite frankly, I couldn't care less about torturing individuals who would commit mass murder like that which occurred on 9/11/01.[/QUOTE]

    [IMG]http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~emt9627/native%20americans.jpg[/IMG]

    Don't forget...your beloved country was founded on mass murder.

  6. #46
    [QUOTE=JetsFanatic;2205222]Are you against water boarding because 0n humane grounds, or are you against it because it may not be a useful way of gathering information?

    Quite frankly, I couldn't care less about torturing individuals who would commit mass murder like that which occurred on 9/11/01.[/QUOTE]

    The problem is torturing individuals who would not commit mass murder like that which occured on 9/11/01, like which happened to the Tipton Three.

    The other issue is once you let torture in, where do you put the stop on it? If you torture all 'bad' people pretty soon you'll find people who aren't intrinsically bad being tortured. 'Bad' is a perception that some people fall into at some stage in their lives and quickly come out of or fall into because they are vulnerable.

    I myself have erred on the wrong side of the law, but what I did certainly didn't deserve 'waterboarding'. And believe you me, there are techniques used by western police services that come straight out of the Abu Grahib text book, and just because you don't read about it in your newspaper doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

    I think Republicans, from what I gather, advocate smaller government. Perhaps this is one area they should think twice about before they attempt to legalise the use of torture, because once it is brought in it will become much more overt and wont just stop at people who are 'terrorists'.

  7. #47
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2205403][IMG]http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~emt9627/native%20americans.jpg[/IMG]

    Don't forget...your beloved country was founded on mass murder.[/QUOTE]

    Don't you mean "our" beloved country?

  8. #48
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2204731]That's because John McCain is a cowardly traitor.

    Or at least that's what the Bush camp said in the 2000 election. [/QUOTE]
    More recently an AP article ran about the leaves in New England lacking accustomed autumn brilliance. Global warming and Bush were to blame. Oh, that Bush! Impeachment season has passed, Iraq isn't the quagmire it was, and it's back to robotic B-level Bush bashing.

  9. #49
    Isn't it great you can brag about GW and all of the things he has done that aren't as bad as before.

    [QUOTE=sackdance;2205438]More recently an AP article ran about the leaves in New England lacking accustomed autumn brilliance. Global warming and Bush were to blame. Oh, that Bush! Impeachment season has passed, Iraq isn't the quagmire it was, and it's back to robotic B-level Bush bashing.[/QUOTE]

  10. #50
    [QUOTE=cr726;2205442]Isn't it great you can brag about GW and all of the things he has done that aren't as bad as before.[/QUOTE]
    CR - why don't you tell us how GW made your life or pursuit of life in America worse. Since he is clearly the worst President in the history of this country, I'd like to know.

    Tell me about the civil rights he's robbed you of. About the jobs you've lost because of him, how he's snuffed the chances for you to make a living. And those lies, cr, tell us about GW's specific lies and how they've hurt you.

    Just take care to not equate "cr726" with "vague global public opinion polls".

    People like you have been bleating the same message over and over, perhaps in the hope that the future would validate your spite. Not happening.

    The end result is the anti-Bush set defending drivers licenses for illegals. LOL.

  11. #51
    I have watched and been effected by his BS apointments in the DOJ, I have watched him destroy our reputation around the world.

    Please show me where I have posted over and over the same message.

    [QUOTE=sackdance;2205489]CR - why don't you tell us how GW made your life or pursuit of life in America worse. Since he is clearly the worst President in the history of this country, I'd like to know.

    Tell me about the civil rights he's robbed you of. About the jobs you've lost because of him, how he's snuffed the chances for you to make a living. And those lies, cr, tell us about GW's specific lies and how they've hurt you.

    Just take care to not equate "cr726" with "vague global public opinion polls".

    People like you have been bleating the same message over and over, perhaps in the hope that the future would validate your spite. Not happening.

    The end result is the anti-Bush set defending drivers licenses for illegals. LOL.[/QUOTE]

  12. #52
    [QUOTE=cr726;2205498]I have watched and been effected by his BS apointments in the DOJ, I have watched him destroy our reputation around the world.[/QUOTE]
    My heart goes out to you. That great reputation of yours that's been flouted around the world - all done in by GW.

    Bush simultaneously owns and burns your a$$. Good for him.

  13. #53
    Great comeback.

    Look at the last two Attorney Generals Bush appointed. The first, Ashcroft lost an election to a dead guy (was more worried about porn than terroristm) and the 2nd was his personal attorney, who admitted his grandparents came to the U.S. illegally.




    [QUOTE=sackdance;2205502]My heart goes out to you. That great reputation of yours that's been flouted around the world - all done in by GW.

    Bush simultaneously owns and burns your a$$. Good for him.[/QUOTE]

  14. #54
    [QUOTE=Buster;2203821]I am concerned about the Constitution of the united stated of America and the next 300 years that it exists. Stop being selfish. We are the greatest country in the history of mankind and we do not need to lower ourselves or our principles to stop anyone.

    Do you think AQ is more powerful than the Nazi's or the USSR?[/QUOTE]

    I understand and appreciate this very much, I think in an amount equalt to any other American who has nothing to hide (criminals andterrorists probably love their unparalleled protections moree as they uise them for evil.) And the very important sentiment does need to be balanced by this one:

    Let's just say I (and for this hypothetical I am an experienced and competent intelligence officer) find out with an extreme likelihood that I have in my custody a prisoner/resource that has information that canbe used to prevent another 9-11 or worse. Is there a limit you will not cross in order to obtain the information. But before answering, think about these corollary questions:

    1) Is honoring the rights of this one person in any way comparable to honoring the rights of the several thuosand whose right to life is iminently threatened?
    2) Family and loved ones will die - and you must face yuor remainiing family. I know your theoretical responsibnility is to the gov't but, none theless, everyone feels responsible to family.
    3) THe classic question ....... if you couldgo back in time and assassinate Adolf Hitler, would you do it? If you could go back in time, would you torture those who brought down the Twini Towers?

    I understand that America as an ideal must not torture every prisoner to datamine for intelligence in order to honor its ideals of life and liberty; however, as a means of self preservation and to honor the lives of those who not only live there now but to honor families who have sacrificed for generations so that we could have an America, we must be prepared to do what is necessary to protect ourselves.

    It is a balancing act. Let's pray that those involved have wisdom, compassion and courage.

  15. #55
    [QUOTE=JetsFanatic;2205222]Are you against water boarding on humane grounds, or are you against it because it may not be a useful way of gathering information?

    Quite frankly, I couldn't care less about torturing individuals who would commit mass murder like that which occurred on 9/11/01.[/QUOTE]

    Well let me turn your question around. If the waterboarding is not the best way to get useful information then why do it? The next sentence you wrote explains it all. It's not about interrogation. It's about making them fell pain a gaining revenge.

    Well that's not the way a civilized society works. I say you interrogate them in the best way you know to get whatever information you can out of them and then you lock them away (no not in a 5 star hotel Dean) for the proper amt of time to fit their crime. If appropriate forever.

    You know what they truly want is to be made a martyr. Killing them and torturing them gets them to heaven sooner and that's what they want. Putting them in prison and forgetting about them for years is the biggest torture to these islamist fanatics.

  16. #56
    flushingjet
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    the problem is lib appeasers always wanting to define and raise the bar to what is torture

    they want to treat terrorist w/ marquis of queensbury rules
    they are not signatories to or give them all rights of Americans

    ostensibly islamic terrorists dont like to see graphic sexual depictions of any kind, or jewish or hindu anything, pork, and liquor

    by lib reasoning psy ops cooking up some bacon in their prison cell
    or leaving them a stack of playboys would be torture

  17. #57
    [QUOTE=cr726;2205511]Great comeback.

    Look at the last two Attorney Generals Bush appointed. The first, Ashcroft lost an election to a dead guy (was more worried about porn than terroristm) and the 2nd was his personal attorney, who admitted his grandparents came to the U.S. illegally.[/QUOTE]
    Want to really judge a President by his AG?

    What does Janet Reno's record, then, say about Bill Clinton? Waco. Ruby Ridge. Wholesale AG politicized idiocy not only resulting in scores unnecessary deaths of American citizens, but in federal agents, too.

    And you want to talk about Gonzalez's grandparents? You're out of your mind.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2204458]Jets5.

    People confessed to being witches and demon summoners under duress of torture in our worlds shiny history.

    Was that actionable intelligence?[/QUOTE]

    Do you EVER have anything substantive to say?

    You know the scope of my question. Your post is absurd.

  19. #59
    I was not a big fan of Clinton, but I understand every rightwing guy brings him up no matter what the topic. I voted for Bush in 2000 and by 2004 I couldn't take it anymore and voted for the less of two evils.

    I answered your question and did not ask for a Reno example from you, but again Clinton, Clinton and more Clinton.

    Gonzalez spoke about his grandparents and yet you wonder why there is not any proactive immigration reform.

    Waco was a boondoggle and Reno should be ashamed of that event.

    As for Ruby Ridge wasn't Reno.
    [B] Ruby Ridge took place on August 21, 1992
    February 11, 1993 Janet Reno selected by Clinton as U.S. Attorney General [/B]

    Nice try.
    [QUOTE=sackdance;2205728]Want to really judge a President by his AG?

    What does Janet Reno's record, then, say about Bill Clinton? Waco. Ruby Ridge. Wholesale AG politicized idiocy not only resulting in scores unnecessary deaths of American citizens, but in federal agents, too.

    And you want to talk about Gonzalez's grandparents? You're out of your mind.[/QUOTE]

  20. #60
    [QUOTE=cr726;2206063]I was not a big fan of Clinton, but I understand every rightwing guy brings him up no matter what the topic. I voted for Bush in 2000 and by 2004 I couldn't take it anymore and voted for the less of two evils.

    I answered your question and did not ask for a Reno example from you, but again Clinton, Clinton and more Clinton.

    Gonzalez spoke about his grandparents and yet you wonder why there is not any proactive immigration reform.

    Waco was a boondoggle and Reno should be ashamed of that event.

    As for Ruby Ridge wasn't Reno.
    [B] Ruby Ridge took place on August 21, 1992
    February 11, 1993 Janet Reno selected by Clinton as U.S. Attorney General [/B]

    Nice try.[/QUOTE]
    I am not predisposed to bring up Clinton, but when you're greatest complaint about Bush is his AGs - be prepared to hold Clinton accountable for Reno. Waco alone is the worst AG-sponsored fiasco this nation has ever seen.

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