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Thread: Ron Paul's Campaign $$$ haul???? A criminal act...

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2213103]the loons are now making RuPaul money....like I previously said; this guy is a cultist...



    [url]http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/16/illegal-ron-paul-currency-seized/[/url][/QUOTE]

    Cultist, yeah because he really supports this type of behavior. He is on record for saying that while he disagrees with the income tax/Fed, etc. he does not encourage illegal behavior to get around them. He is a firm supporter of following the law Ė as much, if not more, than any other candidate.

    Disagree with his issues? Fine, but donít spin an unrelated issue. Itís not on him.

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2210547]he's made mistakes but yes- I support GWB in a number of ways...as much as I disliked clinton and his liberalism I supported him as the President of the United States when he was in office because he was in fact C&C....
    [/QUOTE]


    How the hell can you support someone just because they are C&C. Hitler was
    C&C of Germany, no?

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=sunmou;2213709]How the hell can you support someone just because they are C&C. Hitler was
    C&C of Germany, no?[/QUOTE]

    Hitler was never a popularly elected leader, at least in a fair election.

    There is a High School debating rule that if you bring Hitler into the debate or WW2 you automatically lose the contest.

    We've been through the "Bush = Hitler" debate on these threads before, and though I don't think you are doing that, needless to say the popular consensus was that Bush and Hitler are not comparable people at all.

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=Black Death;2213722]Hitler was never a popularly elected leader, at least in a fair election.

    There is a High School debating rule that if you bring Hitler into the debate or WW2 you automatically lose the contest.

    We've been through the "Bush = Hitler" debate on these threads before, and though I don't think you are doing that, needless to say the popular consensus was that Bush and Hitler are not comparable people at all.[/QUOTE]

    I don't think i wrote that Hitler = Bush. What i was trying to convey was that
    supporting someone because they are your "elected" leader, regardless of what they do, when you disagree with them, is insane.

    How do you debate in high school without being able to mention Hitler?

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=sunmou;2213735]I don't think i wrote that Hitler = Bush. What i was trying to convey was that
    supporting someone because they are your "elected" leader, regardless of what they do, when you disagree with them, is insane.

    How do you debate in high school without being able to mention Hitler?[/QUOTE]

    ****, how many other dictators are there? Pol Pot, Stalin, Idi Amin, Margaret Thatcher....I do believe, however, with that mix of American ingenuity and can-do spirit, that when Hillary Clinton is elected she will top them all. She will be the GOAT and she will be American! :yes:

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE]As if Ron Paul's supporters needed any more motivation to storm the battlements and wreak havoc on the Republican presidential primary, now comes this: the feds are trying to take away their money.

    Federal agents on Wednesday raided the Evansville, Indiana headquarters of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Codes (NORFED), an organization of "sound money" advocates that for the past decade has been selling what it calls Liberty Dollars, a private currency it says is backed by silver and gold stored in Idaho, with a total of more than $20 million in circulation, according to the group.

    NORFED officials said yesterday that the raid occurred just as they were preparing to mail out the first batch of about 60,000 "Ron Paul Dollars," copper coins sold for $1 and decorated with the craggy visage of Paul, the libertarian Texas congressman, Iraq war opponent and sound-money advocate who has sparked a surprisingly vigorous insurgent campaign for the GOP nomination. The group says that it in recent months it already shipped out about 10,000 in silver Ron Paul dollars that sold for $20.

    Bernard von NotHaus, NORFED's founder and executive director, said in an interview from his home in Miami Friday night that his employees in Evansville had received the copper dollars late last week and managed to mail out only about 3,500 of them so far. After a six-hour raid, he said, the agents left with the rest of the coins, which weighed about two tons total, as well as smaller amounts of silver Ron Paul dollars, gold Ron Paul dollars that sell for $1,000 and platinum Ron Paul dollars that sell for $2,000. There was a separate raid, NotHaus said, of Sunshine Mint in Coer D'Alene, Idaho, a company that prints the organization's coins, where von NotHaus said agents seized the huge pallets of silver and gold worth more than $1 million that the organization says back the paper certificates issued to its customers.

    "They took everything, all of the computers, everything but the desks and chairs," said von NotHaus, who says he served 25 years as the mintmaster for the Royal Hawaiian Mint. "The federal government really is afraid."

    The Indianapolis branch of the FBI declined to comment on the raid and referred calls to the U.S. Attorney's office for Western North Carolina in Charlotte. That office's spokeswoman, Suellen Pierce, also declined to comment. But bloggers at the libertarian Reason Foundation posted on-line a 35-page copy affidavit for a search warrant filed last week with the Western District in Asheville laying out the government's case against NORFED. Pierce said that the search warrant in the case had been accidentally made public by a court clerk and has since been sealed, under court rules.

    In the affidavit, an FBI special agent states that he is investigating NORFED for federal violations including "uttering coins of gold, silver, or other metal," "making or possessing likeness of coins," mail fraud, wire fraud, money laundering and conspiracy. "The goal of NORFED is to undermine the United States government's financial systems by the issuance of a non-governmental competing currency for the purpose of repealing the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Code," he states.

    The agent states that the investigation started two years ago. And the U.S. Mint a year ago issued a warning against using the Liberty Dollar, prompting a lawsuit by NORFED. But that has not kept Liberty Dollar fans from speculating on-line that the raid was prompted by Paul's strong campaign -- which recently raised more than $4 million in a single day -- or by the precipitous recent decline in the value of the dollar.

    A Paul campaign spokeswoman, Kerri Price, said yesterday that while Paul also supports abolishing the Federal Reserve, the campaign "does not have any affiliation with Liberty Dollars at all." von NotHaus confirmed this, saying that he knows Paul because they "move in the same circles" but that he had expressly not talked with Paul about his plans for the special coins so as not to violate federal election rules.

    But the coins have been another rallying point for Paul's supporters, who have asked Paul to pose for photographs with the coins on the campaign trail. Jim Forsythe, a Paul organizer in New Hampshire who ordered 150 of the copper Ron Paul dollars, said yesterday that the seizure of the coins would likely fuel more support for Paul, who scores close to double-digits in some New Hampshire polls. "People are pretty upset about this," he said. "The dollar is going down the tubes and this is something that can protect the value of their money and the Federal Reserve is threatened by that. It'll definitely fire people up."

    Von NotHaus, meanwhile, is urging Liberty Dollar supporters to express their outrage by donating to Paul, saying on the group's Web site that "in light of this assault on our financial freedom, it is clear that we need Ron Paul to lead this country more than ever." He said that all of his bank accounts have been frozen and that he expects that a federal indictment will soon be in the offing, saying that "once the federal government starts an investigation like this and takes it to a grand jury, they can indict a ham sandwich." Should he be charged, he said, "I'll turn it into my golden opportunity to validate the Liberty Dollar as a legal lawful currency and save the country from a monetary collapse."

    What he's most concerned about for now, though, is the thought of all his customers waiting for their Ron Paul dollars. "People aren't going to get their orders, and they aren't going to get them for a while," he said.

    That is good news, of course, for those already holding the coins. On eBay, the silver Ron Paul dollars that were purchased for $20 were selling for more than $170 last night.[/QUOTE]

    --Alec MacGillis

    [url]http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/11/16/post_203.html[/url]

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=sunmou;2213709]How the hell can you support someone just because they are C&C. Hitler was
    C&C of Germany, no?[/QUOTE]

    I don't live in germany ass_hole......

  8. #48
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    If It's Good Enough For Mickey, Why Not For Paul?

    A very well written piece by the WaPo...Just unbelievable

    [url]http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/11/19/if_its_good_enough_for_mickey.html[/url]

    [QUOTE]News of a federal raid last week on a "sound money" outfit that is selling "Ron Paul Dollars," reported in Saturday's Post, is generating no end of quips in the blogosphere about what this development says about the Paul campaign's eye-popping recent fundraising success. Wags ask: How much of that record $4.2 million one-day haul that Paul collected earlier this month actually came in the form of dubloons imprinted with Paul's face, not U.S. legal tender?

    But these jokes may be missing the point entirely. In fact, the lack of confidence that many Paul supporters have in U.S. currency may well be one reason why they are sending so many of their greenbacks to Paul's campaign, and thereby making his outsider libertarian bid for the Republican presidential nomination a force to be reckoned with. For sound-money supporters who fear a coming collapse in the value of the dollar, it makes eminent sense to send a few hundred dollars to the one candidate who is arguing for a monetary revolution, instead of simply watching that money rapidly crumble in value.

    As Exhibit A, consider Peter Schiff, a financial adviser and sound-money advocate whose Connecticut firm, Euro Pacific Capital, specializes in investing clients' money in overseas assets to spare them what he argues will be a destructive decline in the value of the dollar followed by major deterioration in the U.S. economy. Schiff, who earlier this year published the investment guide "Crash Proof," recently sent out a "call to action" e-mail to the 60,000 people in his database urging them to send the $2,300 maximum-allowed contribution to Paul's campaign, describing this as one of the most productive uses for their rapidly fading U.S. dollars.

    "If you are fortunate enough to be one of my clients, writing a $2,300 check should not be a problem. As I have likely made you tons of money over the years, here is an opportunity to donate some of it to a worthy cause. We have made our money by betting against the U.S and betting against the dollar. Giving $2,300 of our winnings to Ron Paul gives us the opportunity to bet ON America for a change. And it's a bet none of us can afford to lose, and the best part about it is that if we all make this bet together we can't lose," Schiff wrote in the e-mail. "My penchant for foreign investments has from time to time caused some of my critics to label me unpatriotic. While such attacks are clearly out of line, using some of our foreign profits to secure the election of Ron Paul goes a long way toward defusing such allegations. If you are not a client and you think $2,300 is a lot of money, it's not. In fact, if Ron Paul is not our next President, such a sum will be practically worthless by the end of the term of whoever is. So what do you have to lose? Just write the check and hope for the best."

    In an interview today, Schiff said he expects that the federal raid on the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Code had added more weight to his argument for giving to the Paul campaign. "The federal government is debasing the currency and then it comes in and punishes people who are doing something to protect themselves," he said. "The fact that these guys would come in and raid this organization shows how much they've got to fear from this. If more and more people start shunning the currency, it takes away from their power."

    Norfed, which is based in Evansville, Ind., says that in the last decade it has put into circulation more than $20 million in "Liberty Dollars," metal medallions and paper certificates that it says are backed by silver and gold stored in Idaho. The group's founder and director, Bernard von NotHaus, says that federal agents seized more than 50,000 copper "Ron Paul Dollars" that the group was selling for $1, in addition to smaller amounts of silver Ron Paul Dollars that sold for $20, gold ones that went for $1,000 and platinum ones that went for $2,000. Agents also raided the Idaho minting company that makes the organization's medallions, seizing the huge pallets of silver and gold stored there, von NotHaus said.

    The FBI and U.S. Attorney's office in western North Carolina, which is handling the case, have declined to comment on the raids, but an affidavit filed in Asheville earlier this month describes a two-year long undercover investigation of the group, based partly on evidence obtained by an informant who posed as someone wanting to become a regional associate for the group. The affidavit states the group is being investigated for federal violations including "uttering coins of gold, silver or other metal" and "making of possessing likenesses of coins." "The goal of Norfed is to undermine the United States goverment's financial systems by the issuance of a non-governmental competing currency," the affidavit states.

    This argument met with ridicule over the weekend from the prolific on-line network of Ron Paul supporters and sound money advocates, some of whom sarcastically predicted that the feds would next be going after Disneyworld for selling "Disney Dollars" for use inside the amusement park. "Here is a Mickey Mouse coin issued by that criminal, separatist organization, the Walt Disney Corporation. Did someone fail Common Sense 101?" wrote one commenter on the Post's Web site, offering a link to an image of the offending Mickey dubloon. Wrote another, "With commemorative coins advertised in every Sunday newspaper, and given the Donald Duck silver coins sold at Disney Land, this is an obvious attack on Ron Paul, a legitimate Presidential candidate, by the Federal Government. I am going to respond by going to Ron Paul's web site, easily found with Google, and giving $100 today."

    Lawrence White, an economics professor at the University of Missouri-St. Louis, said Liberty Dollar supporters had a point in charging overreaction on the part of the federal government. The question to be asked of Liberty Dollars, he said, is whether they make any sense for customers to buy -- while the certificates may offer a hedge for those convinced that the dollar will go in the tank, they come with the obvious downside that it is difficult to find others willing to accept the Liberty Dollars as a legal tender (though not in Berryville, Ark., where, according to the chamber of commerce, about half of the town's 80 merchants accept Liberty Dollars.)But that choice should be up to Americans to make, White said. "Unless they think people are being defrauded, it seems absurd to me," he said of the raid."The public ought to have a choice. Thank goodness we have an alternative to the post office."

    A spokesman for the U.S. Mint responded to questions today by pointing reporters to the "consumer alerts" portion of its Web site, which carries warnings against using Liberty Dollars alongside warnings against mistaking as legitimate currency coins including: "Silver surfer" quarters created to help market the Fox movie "Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer"; a "Freedom Tower Silver Dollar" originating from the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands; and an "Elvis Presley 25th Anniversary Tennessee State Quarter Tribute."

    A Paul campaign spokesman, Jesse Benton, today reiterated that the campaign has no connection with the Ron Paul Dollars (though supporters have taken pictures of grinning Paul next to the coins.) He said the campaign is seeing an "uptick" in Web site visits and contributions following reports of the raid. The real test of the campaign's fundraising strength, though, will come next month, when supporters are organizing another one-day fundraising "bomb" timed with the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party.

    Von NotHaus is doing his part, urging on his Web site (which he says has seen a huge spike in traffic) that supporters respond to the raid by contributing to Paul, as well as urging them to sign up as part of a class-action lawsuit against the federal government over the coin seizures. He is biding his time at his home in Miami, expecting to be arrested and indicted sometime in the near future. In fact, he said today that he is kind of hoping that the government makes its move sooner than later, so eager is he to make a stand on the part of sound money theories.

    "I'm sure I'm going to be arrested, and I'd be disappointed if I'm not," he said. "I want to get going. I think it's going to be exciting."

    --Alec MacGillis[/QUOTE]

    The commentary section is excellent also....

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