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Thread: Rudy Giuliani, Disciplinarian

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=Big Blocker;2232237]Wow. What a shocker. You didn't get it.

    Rat, huh? Again with the name calling. Grow up.

    "just the fact he beat dinkins the next time he ran....never mind the fact he was running for mayor as a Republican in a city which is about 90% rat....but hey- don't let the facts get in the way of blind ignorance....."

    Nice writing. It must be my fault I can't make any sense of it.

    He beat Dinkins the second time around because Dinkins sucked and Rudy changed his campaign to discuss efforts he would make as mayor. Surely you recall?

    I see you have no counter to [B]my point that Rudy has not explained why he is qualified to be president other than referring to 9/11[/B], and has said nothing about what he would do. I think I have killed you here.

    [B]In case you missed it, saying he was mayor doesn't make it. [/B]

    And ftr I think Obama is a bit green this time around. For sure he is. But at least he is talking more about what he would do if elected, albeit he is quite a lot more vague about that than Edwards.[/QUOTE]

    who then is qualified? Senators? Congressmen? Generals? Governors? At least Governors and in Rudys case mayor of an 8+M city have the experience of being the top executive of a population of people. Senators cannot make that claim. Only generals have the military background to be commander-in-cheif. If you want to be technical, there are only two people alive with the proper experience to be our next president--Jimmy Carter and G Bush Sr.
    Saying Rudy is not qualified is silly.

    Re Rudy talking the issues. Its quite common for those leading the pols to stay as non-committed as possible in their debates (see Hillary as well). Theres nothing to gain and everything to lose. Thats just politics--I dont like it either, just the way it is. If his lead starts slipping you'll see him become more issue-oriented.

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=mallamalla;2232556]I never said Guiliani was a leader of men. I am saying that trashing him for not having "experience" is a bit overrated.

    But since we are on the subject, you are nitpicking quite a bit. You are only focusing on the negatives, and in a situation such as 9/11, nothing could have been done flawlessly. But what Giuliani attempted to do was give Americans hope. He was the symbol that urged us to go back to work, to live our lives as we normally would. If you want to blame him for the bad decisions (which I am sure he was advised on) you also have to give him credit for things that may have naturally transpired. It works both ways and you only focus on him as the fall guy but fail to give him any credit whatsoever. After 9/11, for the first time in a long time, everyone was pro american and we all loved each other. Yes, that perhaps is a natural occurance, and maybe some of his speeches were written for him, but you cant blame him for everything that went wrong and refuse to praise him for what stands out as good.

    Compare New York after 9/11 to the idiot in New Orleans after Katrina.[/QUOTE]

    you've got to remember, when trying to debate a point with kennyo you are dealing with a degenerate....he's still pissed off Guiliani cleaned up Times Square from the pushers, pimps and prostitutes...

    [QUOTE]BTW , i prfered Times Square in the 1980s than what it is now. It had a distinct NY flavor. Sure it was dangerous but it had character. Now Times Square is nothing but a Disney World. Its disgraceful. Whenever i walk through it i feel dirty. Times Square has sold out to corporate America and is no longer has a distinctly NY feel to it[/QUOTE]

    [url]http://www.jetsinsider.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1750582&postcount=101[/url]

    he's bothered more by Mickey Mouse than murderers....
    Last edited by Come Back to NY; 11-27-2007 at 07:47 PM.

  3. #43
    [QUOTE=mallamalla;2232556]I never said Guiliani was a leader of men. I am saying that trashing him for not having "experience" is a bit overrated.

    But since we are on the subject, you are nitpicking quite a bit. You are only focusing on the negatives, and in a situation such as 9/11, nothing could have been done flawlessly. But what Giuliani attempted to do was give Americans hope. He was the symbol that urged us to go back to work, to live our lives as we normally would. If you want to blame him for the bad decisions (which I am sure he was advised on) you also have to give him credit for things that may have naturally transpired. It works both ways and you only focus on him as the fall guy but fail to give him any credit whatsoever. After 9/11, for the first time in a long time, everyone was pro american and we all loved each other. Yes, that perhaps is a natural occurance, and maybe some of his speeches were written for him, but you cant blame him for everything that went wrong and refuse to praise him for what stands out as good.

    Compare New York after 9/11 to the idiot in New Orleans after Katrina.[/QUOTE]

    You have proved my point. Look at the only positives you can point at: "he was a symbol urging us to go back to work"??? Really, how so? "He gave us hope"...again, how so? are you suggesting without Rudy, Americans would have felt hopeless. These "positives" you are pointing out are empty meaningless words. Bozo the Clown could have been the mayor of NYC on 9-11 and he would have done the same thing Rudy did. He would have been every much a "symbol of hope" that Rudy was. Rudy did not do anything special on that day.

    As for comparing 9-11 to Katrina....that is absolutely ridiculous. 9-11 was an absolute tragedy but the true damage to the city was limited to a few square blocks. Katrina took out a good part of two poor states. While the number of deaths may not be the same , the damage done by Katrina was much more widespread and the immediate resources available was far less

  4. #44
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2232686]you've got to remember, when trying to debate a point with kennyo you are dealing with a degenerate....he's still pissed off Guiliani cleaned up Times Square from the pushers, pimps and prostitutes...



    [url]http://www.jetsinsider.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1750582&postcount=101[/url]

    he's bothered more by Mickey Mouse than murderers....[/QUOTE]

    You are such a troll. Its not even funny

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2232762]You are such a troll. Its not even funny[/QUOTE]

    rather a troll than a deginerate like you....

  6. #46
    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2232760]You have proved my point. Look at the only positives you can point at: "he was a symbol urging us to go back to work"??? Really, how so? "He gave us hope"...again, how so? are you suggesting without Rudy, Americans would have felt hopeless. These "positives" you are pointing out are empty meaningless words. Bozo the Clown could have been the mayor of NYC on 9-11 and he would have done the same thing Rudy did. He would have been every much a "symbol of hope" that Rudy was. Rudy did not do anything special on that day.

    As for comparing 9-11 to Katrina....that is absolutely ridiculous. 9-11 was an absolute tragedy but the true damage to the city was limited to a few square blocks. Katrina took out a good part of two poor states. While the number of deaths may not be the same , the damage done by Katrina was much more widespread and the immediate resources available was far less[/QUOTE]

    At least Rudy as mayor was able to hold off the rats for two years from claiming 9/11 was an inside job. New Orleans took all of two days to blame the goverment, calling them racists and demanding money to buy liquor and tv's.

    In all seriousness however, anyone who lived through 9/11 and in New York at the time commended Rudy for his efforts. Only in retrospect does he get criticized, because negativity will always prevail.

    I just cant accept how you can claim cleaning up the city cannot be attributed to Rudy yet every poor decision in an emergency situation was solely rudy's fault. You obviously have an agenda which is fine, but your unbalanced opinions are so obviously transparent.

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2232760]You have proved my point. Look at the only positives you can point at: "he was a symbol urging us to go back to work"??? Really, how so? "He gave us hope"...again, how so? are you suggesting without Rudy, Americans would have felt hopeless. These "positives" you are pointing out are empty meaningless words. Bozo the Clown could have been the mayor of NYC on 9-11 and he would have done the same thing Rudy did. He would have been every much a "symbol of hope" that Rudy was. Rudy did not do anything special on that day.

    As for comparing 9-11 to Katrina....that is absolutely ridiculous. 9-11 was an absolute tragedy but the true damage to the city was limited to a few square blocks. Katrina took out a good part of two poor states. While the number of deaths may not be the same , the damage done by Katrina was much more widespread and the immediate resources available was far less[/QUOTE]


    9-11 was limited to a few square blocks in NYC??? how pathetic are you???

  8. #48
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2232872]9-11 was limited to a few square blocks in NYC??? how pathetic are you???[/QUOTE]

    No dimwit. im not talking about the magnitude on the lives and what the event meant to the nation. im talking about the direct hit and damages to the infrastructure which was limited to a few blocks

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2232879]No dimwit. im not talking about the magnitude on the lives and what the event meant to the nation. im talking about the direct hit and damages to the infrastructure which was limited to a few blocks[/QUOTE]

    so was I dumbass.....

    your statement is nothing more than another lunatic leftist attmepting to marginalize what happened that day....

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2232686]
    he's bothered more by Mickey Mouse than murderers....[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2232762] BTW , i prfered Times Square in the 1980s than what it is now. It had a distinct NY flavor. Sure it was dangerous but it had character. Now Times Square is nothing but a Disney World. Its disgraceful. Whenever i walk through it i feel dirty. [B]Times Square has sold out to corporate America and is no longer has a distinctly NY feel to it [/B][/QUOTE]

    During the Dinkins administration, I recall that "distinctly NY feel" during a trip to Times Square was a sharp knife in your ribs.

  11. #51
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    [QUOTE=Phoenixx;2232896]During the Dinkins administration, I recall that "distinctly NY feel" during a trip to Times Square was a sharp knife in your ribs.[/QUOTE]

    and this happened while you were walking past the porn shops saying "no thanks" the the prostitutes and drug pushers....

  12. #52
    [QUOTE=Phoenixx;2232896]During the Dinkins administration, I recall that "distinctly NY feel" during a trip to Times Square was a sharp knife in your ribs.[/QUOTE]

    Really? My uncle managed a restaurant in times square between 1966 and 1994 taking the subway to and from queens at 6AM and 1AM 6 days a week. Not once did he get mugged

  13. #53
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2232886]so was I dumbass.....

    your statement is nothing more than another lunatic leftist attmepting to marginalize what happened that day....[/QUOTE]

    Marginalize??
    I lost a cousin and a friend. I know what 9-11 means to me . I also know that the direct magnitude of Katrina affected more peoples livelihoods

  14. #54
    [QUOTE=mallamalla;2232867]At least Rudy as mayor was able to hold off the rats for two years from claiming 9/11 was an inside job. New Orleans took all of two days to blame the goverment, calling them racists and demanding money to buy liquor and tv's.

    In all seriousness however, anyone who lived through 9/11 and in New York at the time commended Rudy for his efforts. Only in retrospect does he get criticized, because negativity will always prevail.

    I just cant accept how you can claim cleaning up the city cannot be attributed to Rudy yet every poor decision in an emergency situation was solely rudy's fault. You obviously have an agenda which is fine, but your unbalanced opinions are so obviously transparent.[/QUOTE]

    I never criticized Guiliani until he created (along with the media) this myth of St. Rudy of 9-11 and milked this tragedy for his own gain. Once he rode this myth, he became open for legitimate criticisms. His entire campaign is about his role on 9-11. Thats his choice. If thats the case, he must answer the criticisms (something the media never dares to do).
    Last edited by kennyo7; 11-27-2007 at 10:47 PM.

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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2232925]Really? My uncle managed a restaurant in times square between 1966 and 1994 taking the subway to and from queens at 6AM and 1AM 6 days a week. Not once did he get mugged[/QUOTE]

    Not once that you know about.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2232760]These "positives" you are pointing out are empty meaningless words. [/QUOTE]

    As a self-admitted Socialist-Democrat, you'd know ALL ABOUT "meaningless words", wouldn't you?

    Ms. Clinton, you're soon-to-be-nominee and patron saint, uses two such words in almost every single sentance she utters:

    "Diplomacy"

    &

    Her "Experience"

    Then again, anyone who had to cover up so many scandals as Ms. Clinton did MUST have the kind of experience needed to run the U.S. Govt....if it was made up exclusively of sexual predators and chineese donators.:rolleyes:

    I'm no Rudy fan personally, but if he's not qualified, Ms. Clinton isn't even in the same neighborhood as qualified.
    Last edited by Warfish; 11-27-2007 at 11:57 PM.

  17. #57
    Weather Rudy would make a good President does not change the fact that while he was Mayor he had this city cleaned up. Drugs, guns and hookers were taken off the street. Now the city is starting to turn back into a **** hole, one of the main reasons is getting rid of the NYPDs anti-crime unit, after the Diallo incident. If you think Time Square was better than then it is now you're nuts. or you miss the peep shows.:)

  18. #58
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2233085]As a self-admitted Socialist-Democrat, you'd know ALL ABOUT "meaningless words", wouldn't you?

    Ms. Clinton, you're soon-to-be-nominee and patron saint, uses two such words in almost every single sentance she utters:

    "Diplomacy"

    &

    Her "Experience"

    Then again, anyone who had to cover up so many scandals as Ms. Clinton did MUST have the kind of experience needed to run the U.S. Govt....if it was made up exclusively of sexual predators and chineese donators.:rolleyes:

    I'm no Rudy fan personally, but if he's not qualified, Ms. Clinton isn't even in the same neighborhood as qualified.[/QUOTE]

    How many time do i have to tell you that i hate Hillary Clinton and will NOT support her. Why do you insist on calling her my "patron saint"

    Everything that you have said is pretty much correct except one thing. Senator Clinton is at least as qualified as Rudy to be President. She has been a US Senator for 7 years, served on the Budget Committee, Armed Services Committee, Committee on Environment and Public Works, Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, and Special Committee and is also a Commissioner of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe. She has been directly involved in issues regarding national security, foreign policy, as well as countless domestic issues. I may not support her, but to say she is "not in the same neighborhood" in terms of qualifications as Guiliani (an 8 year MAYOR) is an absolute joke and once again shows how your bias clouds your judgement

  19. #59
    [QUOTE=BronxDan;2233112]Weather Rudy would make a good President does not change [B]the fact that while he was Mayor he had this city cleaned up[/B]. Drugs, guns and hookers were taken off the street. Now the city is starting to turn back into a **** hole, one of the main reasons is getting rid of the NYPDs anti-crime unit, after the Diallo incident. If you think Time Square was better than then it is now you're nuts. or you miss the peep shows.:)[/QUOTE]

    Bill Bratton and the policies he brough over from Boston are more responsible for cleaning up NYC than Guiliani. Yes his decision to hire was a good one. He gets credit for that. But saying any one person is responsible for cleaning up the city is laughably naive

  20. #60
    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2233397]Bill Bratton and the policies he brough over from Boston are more responsible for cleaning up NYC than Guiliani. Yes his decision to hire was a good one. He gets credit for that. But saying any one person is responsible for cleaning up the city is laughably naive[/QUOTE]

    I thought Dinkins was a disaster, but he did start adding police before he left office, and the turnaround actually started then. Plus the crack epidemic was running its course.

    People want to willfully ignore all of Rudy's negatives. Best of all was his suggestion that the election for mayor in 2001 be suspended to allow him to remain in office. How self serving was that? Can you imagine him doing the same thing if he were president? I have little difficulty thinking he is capable of that. And of course somehow the election did proceed and we made it through without him.

    As Jimmy Breslin said about him, Rudy is a small man searching for a balcony. He has no real principles. A Roman Catholic who has been divorced twice? Announcing his second to his then wife in a news conference? His children hate him? He loves to dress in drag, in public? A lifelong Yankee fan who said he would root for the Red Sox?

    Meanwhile he says nothing about what he will do in office. Saying he does that because all politicians do that is first of all incorrect, but it also allows him to play his self serving game of trying to be all things to his supporters, without really taking any stands.

    He's a nasty prick, too. And an egomaniac.

    When Bratton began getting too much credit for his crime reduction programs, Rudy forced him out and replaced him with a loyal yes man, Howard Safir, who was incompetent. Just what we need after W, another eogmaniac who favors yes men over competence.

    In fact, I think even of the other Republican candidates only Rudy has the prospect of being worse than W. Scary thought....

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