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Thread: Rudy Giuliani, Disciplinarian

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2230634]this is quite possibly one of the most hysterical posts I've ever read and even funnier from a clown who claims I only support "party" over all else...

    nah; Rudy had nothing to do with bringing down the mob as DA, or bringing down crime or cleaning the city of prostitutes, pimps, pushers or porn, helping the city regain as one of the top tourists spots in the world...

    right...he did a lot of nothing until 9-11.....[/QUOTE]

    The funniest part of all is that you failed, as Rudy has, to address exactly what he has said he will do as president and why he deserves to be president. How are those questions part of any party line? Ftr, I see several GOP candidates making the same point.

    You are clearly not up to debating on an intelligent level.

  2. #22
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    What did Rudy do to save NY??

    Lets look at facts instead of the rantings that have been posted here so far.

    Rudy took office after David "Crown Heights Riots" Dinkins left the city in shambles. At that time Mid Town and 42nd street was a haven for drugs and prostitution. People don't seem to remember this stuff but NYC was going the way of Newark and at that time. It was turning in to a major sh*thole.

    One of the first things he did was pass laws which effectively closed down most strip clubs and porn stores. The law was worded to ban them in mostly resdential neighborhoods. Next he instructed the police to clean up the streets and begin aggressively arresting prostitutes and drug dealers and users. He changed the philosophy of the police department by instituting a policy by which the police were shifted to the areas where the most crime was. Seems like a simple idea yet for some reason it hadn't been done before.

    Finally one of his greatest accomplishments was reducing the wellfare rolls. He instituted a work for welfare program which forced most welfare recipiants to get up off their lazy asses and work. He got 500000 people off the wellfare rolls. The poor hated him for it but in the end of the day he helped them get off wellfare and make somthing of themselves. It is the classic case of tough love that helped the poor rise up.

    All of this was accomplished against the background of a hostile media and constituancy. He was very impressive as mayor well before 9/11 happened.

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=Big Blocker;2231500]The funniest part of all is that you failed, as Rudy has, to address exactly what he has said he will do as president and why he deserves to be president. How are those questions part of any party line? Ftr, I see several GOP candidates making the same point.

    You are clearly not up to debating on an intelligent level.[/QUOTE]


    the pathetic failure has again been on your behalf- a constant in your short stint here...

    you obviously have no desire to debate on an "intelligent level" unless that "intelligent level" is comprised of your biased thinking (a term I use loosely)...

    you whine like a b!tch that Guiliani ran for mayor of NYC on the platform of "being a great DA"...you then allege he was not using a single example dismissing everything else he did as DA of NYC then mayor- multiple examples which I pointed out.....

    the truly comical thing is you try and justify your baseless arguement on the fact Guiliani's opponents questioni this....as though that holds some sort of merit or the fact political opponents don't question every aspect of their rivals career....

    but hey; speculation and accusation is always easier than the facts to an intelligent leftist, as you've proven time and time again...
    Last edited by Come Back to NY; 11-27-2007 at 10:51 AM.

  4. #24
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    Ahhhhhhhh....

    Slow-boat Morons for Lies.

    Project for a Dismal American Future.

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  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;2231598]What did Rudy do to save NY??

    Lets look at facts instead of the rantings that have been posted here so far.

    Rudy took office after David "Crown Heights Riots" Dinkins left the city in shambles. At that time Mid Town and 42nd street was a haven for drugs and prostitution. People don't seem to remember this stuff but NYC was going the way of Newark and at that time. It was turning in to a major sh*thole.

    One of the first things he did was pass laws which effectively closed down most strip clubs and porn stores. The law was worded to ban them in mostly resdential neighborhoods. Next he instructed the police to clean up the streets and begin aggressively arresting prostitutes and drug dealers and users. He changed the philosophy of the police department by instituting a policy by which the police were shifted to the areas where the most crime was. Seems like a simple idea yet for some reason it hadn't been done before..[/QUOTE]

    Yes this is true. But it wasnt Rudy's plan. This was all Bratton. This policy of going after quality of life issues as a means of "cleaning the city up"was implemented by Bratton in Boston many years before Rudy came about. It was very effective in cleaning up Boston and Bratton carried this over to NY when he became NYPD Commisioner. In fact he was put on the cover of a major news magazine (Time or Newsweek? Cant remember) and hailed for it. When Rudy saw the publicity Bratton was getting he couldnt stand it and shortly fired the man who deserved the credit for these policies replacing him with a yes man.

    Another thing you failed to mention is that every major US city saw a resurgence with major drops in crime nation wide during this period. Coincidence? I dont think so. Hailing Rudy as the reason for NYC being "cleaned up" is naively over simplistic.

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2231610]the pathetic failure has again been on your behalf- a constant in your short stint here...

    you obviously have no desire to debate on an "intelligent level" unless that "intelligent level" is comprised of your biased thinking (a term I use loosely)...

    you whine like a b!tch that Guiliani ran for mayor of NYC on the platform of "being a great DA"...you then allege he was not using a single example dismissing everything else he did as DA of NYC then mayor- multiple examples which I pointed out.....

    the truly comical thing is you try and justify your baseless arguement on the fact Guiliani's opponents questioni this....as though that holds some sort of merit or the fact political opponents don't question every aspect of their rivals career....

    but hey; speculation and accusation is always easier than the facts to an intelligent leftist, as you've proven time and time again...[/QUOTE]

    Wow. Where to start with such an incoherent *****fest?

    I was in NYC when Rudy ran the first time. Were you? He singularly failed to describe HOW he was prepared to be mayor and WHAT he would do. He lost to a feeble candidate, David Dinkins.

    Do you have any evidence to counter what I just said? Of course you don't.

    Imo, as several REPUBLICAN candidates have recently been pointing out, Rudy is doing the same thing now, meaning NOT showing how his being mayor of a city makes him prepared to be president and NOT saying what he would do as president.

    Now I don't mean to say his team has not released any position statements. I mean in terms of talking to voters, in speeches, debates. It is a constant and never changing recitation of "I saved NYC and the whole country on 9/11!"

    My point is aside from that being resume inflation, it is beside the point of what people should be concerned about in reviewing who should be the next president.

    Btw, I referred to a single example not because there are no others. But that was not the point, as anyone interested in really discussing the subject would see. The point is what kind of campaign is Rudy running? What "mandate" would he have for specific policies if elected? What do people considering voting for him have a right to expect?

    THAT is what I am talking about. That and the interesting fact that this situation parallels his first race for mayor.

    Eventually one of his opponents will make an even bigger deal of this than McCain, Thompson and Romney have so far. Just watch.

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2231935]Yes this is true. But it wasnt Rudy's plan. This was all Bratton. This policy of going after quality of life issues as a means of "cleaning the city up"was implemented by Bratton in Boston many years before Rudy came about. It was very effective in cleaning up Boston and Bratton carried this over to NY when he became NYPD Commisioner. In fact he was put on the cover of a major news magazine (Time or Newsweek? Cant remember) and hailed for it. When Rudy saw the publicity Bratton was getting he couldnt stand it and shortly fired the man who deserved the credit for these policies replacing him with a yes man.

    Another thing you failed to mention is that every major US city saw a resurgence with major drops in crime nation wide during this period. Coincidence? I dont think so. Hailing Rudy as the reason for NYC being "cleaned up" is naively over simplistic.[/QUOTE]

    Yep, as I said, resume inflation.

    I think Rudy really appeals to naive voters who like the man on horseback kind of candidate. He was "tough" then, he will be tough now when we need him. I don't need to know anything else about him, and what I do know that I don't like I will simply ignore.

  8. #28
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    your stupidity is mounting to epic proportions...

    [QUOTE=Big Blocker;2232175]Wow. Where to start with such an incoherent *****fest?

    I was in NYC when Rudy ran the first time. Were you? [/QUOTE]

    I sure was....

    [QUOTE]He singularly failed to describe HOW he was prepared to be mayor and WHAT he would do. He lost to a feeble candidate, David Dinkins.

    Do you have any evidence to counter what I just said? Of course you don't.[/QUOTE]

    just the fact he beat dinkins the next time he ran....never mind the fact he was running for mayor as a Republican in a city which is about 90% rat....but hey- don't let the facts get in the way of blind ignorance.....

    [QUOTE]Imo, as several REPUBLICAN candidates have recently been pointing out, Rudy is doing the same thing now, meaning NOT showing how his being mayor of a city makes him prepared to be president and NOT saying what he would do as president.[/QUOTE]

    and by extension you would concur with the democrat candidates who claim hussien obama is green as grass and not prepared to be president...correct???

    [QUOTE]Now I don't mean to say his team has not released any position statements. I mean in terms of talking to voters, in speeches, debates. It is a constant and never changing recitation of "I saved NYC and the whole country on 9/11!"

    My point is aside from that being resume inflation, it is beside the point of what people should be concerned about in reviewing who should be the next president.

    Btw, I referred to a single example not because there are no others. But that was not the point, as anyone interested in really discussing the subject would see. The point is what kind of campaign is Rudy running? What "mandate" would he have for specific policies if elected? What do people considering voting for him have a right to expect?[/QUOTE]

    interested in discussing the topic??? as in dismissing the effects he had as DA in helping bring organized crime down???

    [QUOTE]THAT is what I am talking about. That and the interesting fact that this situation parallels his first race for mayor.

    Eventually one of his opponents will make an even bigger deal of this than McCain, Thompson and Romney have so far. Just watch.[/QUOTE]

    there is no parallel...he was mayor for one of the biggest cities in the world and won re-election....you can go round and round in circles- and I expect you will- but to try and justify your arguement on the accusations of political opponents in the middle of a political race is pathetic....

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2232221]your stupidity is mounting to epic proportions...



    I sure was....



    just the fact he beat dinkins the next time he ran....never mind the fact he was running for mayor as a Republican in a city which is about 90% rat....but hey- don't let the facts get in the way of blind ignorance.....



    and by extension you would concur with the democrat candidates who claim hussien obama is green as grass and not prepared to be president...correct???



    interested in discussing the topic??? as in dismissing the effects he had as DA in helping bring organized crime down???



    there is no parallel...he was mayor for one of the biggest cities in the world and won re-election....you can go round and round in circles- and I expect you will- but to try and justify your arguement on the accusations of political opponents in the middle of a political race is pathetic....[/QUOTE]

    Wow. What a shocker. You didn't get it.

    Rat, huh? Again with the name calling. Grow up.

    "just the fact he beat dinkins the next time he ran....never mind the fact he was running for mayor as a Republican in a city which is about 90% rat....but hey- don't let the facts get in the way of blind ignorance....."

    Nice writing. It must be my fault I can't make any sense of it.

    He beat Dinkins the second time around because Dinkins sucked and Rudy changed his campaign to discuss efforts he would make as mayor. Surely you recall?

    I see you have no counter to my point that Rudy has not explained why he is qualified to be president other than referring to 9/11, and has said nothing about what he would do. I think I have killed you here.

    In case you missed it, saying he was mayor doesn't make it.

    And ftr I think Obama is a bit green this time around. For sure he is. But at least he is talking more about what he would do if elected, albeit he is quite a lot more vague about that than Edwards.

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=Big Blocker;2232237]Wow. What a shocker. You didn't get it.

    Rat, huh? Again with the name calling. Grow up.[/QUOTE]

    the usual rat hypocrisy which people are accustomed to around here...yes- I am guilty of name calling but how does the rat accuser begin his previous post???

    [QUOTE]Wow. Where to start with such an incoherent *****fest?[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE]"just the fact he beat dinkins the next time he ran....never mind the fact he was running for mayor as a Republican in a city which is about 90% rat....but hey- don't let the facts get in the way of blind ignorance....."

    Nice writing. It must be my fault I can't make any sense of it.[/QUOTE]

    reading comprehension is an overrated skill...don't worry about it....

    [QUOTE]He beat Dinkins the second time around because Dinkins sucked and Rudy changed his campaign to discuss efforts he would make as mayor. Surely you recall?[/QUOTE]

    of course you won't deny NYC is 80% rat and the scales are always titled against a candidate like Guiliani from the get go??? or is this fact and simple common sense too much for you to understand??

    [QUOTE]I see you have no counter to my point that Rudy has not explained why he is qualified to be president other than referring to 9/11, and has said nothing about what he would do. I think I have killed you here.[/QUOTE]

    I've countered them but in usual rat form you've dismissed them as you have no answer (boy- what a surprise there!!)...they are posted throughout the thread; reducing crime, workfare and riding NYC of being the welfare capital of the world, cleaning up NYC, taking down the mob (posted again which you've yet to counter)...as far as what he will do going forward?? he's stated his case for immigration and national security and the Supreme Court....I guess they don't talk about it on Err America radio....

    [QUOTE]In case you missed it, saying he was mayor doesn't make it. [/QUOTE]

    neither does the fact your husband was president (clinton), or you've been a senator for two years who can talk jive (obama), or you were a failed vice presidential candidate who would not have been re-elected had you re-run for your senate seat and could not even carry your own state in the national election (edwards), and so on and so on.....you just had your ass beaten into the ground....

    [QUOTE]And ftr I think Obama is a bit green this time around. For sure he is. But at least he is talking more about what he would do if elected, albeit he is quite a lot more vague about that than Edwards.[/QUOTE]

    yes- unilaterally bombing an ally, talking with enemies and telling the world nukes are off the table is all very attractive....
    Last edited by Come Back to NY; 11-27-2007 at 03:48 PM.

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=Big Blocker;2232237]Wow. What a shocker. You didn't get it.

    Rat, huh? Again with the name calling. Grow up.

    "just the fact he beat dinkins the next time he ran....never mind the fact he was running for mayor as a Republican in a city which is about 90% rat....but hey- don't let the facts get in the way of blind ignorance....."

    Nice writing. It must be my fault I can't make any sense of it.

    He beat Dinkins the second time around because Dinkins sucked and Rudy changed his campaign to discuss efforts he would make as mayor. Surely you recall?

    I see you have no counter to my point that Rudy has not explained why he is qualified to be president other than referring to 9/11, and has said nothing about what he would do. I think I have killed you here.

    In case you missed it, saying he was mayor doesn't make it.

    And ftr I think Obama is a bit green this time around. For sure he is. But at least he is talking more about what he would do if elected, albeit he is quite a lot more vague about that than Edwards.[/QUOTE]

    Let me guess... you probably voted for John "I have a plan" Kerry.

    I think experience is overrated. The key to being a sucessful president is surrounding yourself with the right people who follow your agenda. This is Bush's main problem.

    The fact that Guiliani has not announced his plans per your standards is because he doesnt have to. However, I do recall hearing his stance on immigration and medicare, for starters. He is in the lead currently, and as much as we hate to admit it, politics is as much a game as anything else. As much as I hate Hillary, she is "guilty" of the same thing and she is playing the game as conservatively as possible, because she can only lose points at this point.
    Last edited by mallamalla; 11-27-2007 at 03:51 PM.

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=mallamalla;2232292]I think experience is overrated. [/QUOTE]

    Indeed. Especially in the fields of Nuclear Plant Supervisor, Crane Operator, Commercial Airline Pilot, Heart Surgeon or Oil Supertanker Captain.

    That's why most ads for high paying jobs you see say "No experience necessary...in fact no experience preferred".

  13. #33
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    He was a lousy husband, a lousy father, he lived with a gay guy while he was sorting out his personal life, was not very high in polls as mayor at a time when a very unfortunate event "recreated him." That was my take on the guy. For what it is worth.

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2232431]Indeed. Especially in the fields of Nuclear Plant Supervisor, Crane Operator, Commercial Airline Pilot, Heart Surgeon or Oil Supertanker Captain.

    That's why most ads for high paying jobs you see say "No experience necessary...in fact no experience preferred".[/QUOTE]

    Those are ridiculous comparisons. You need specific skills to have those jobs. To be a president, you need to be a leader of men, you need to trust the right people, you need to have thick skin and you need to trust your instincts. Do you actually think the president is making every single decision? No, but he is the fall guy for every decision his administration proposes and adopts.

    Obviously you need to have some experience in leadership roles, but being a US Senator as opposed to a governor makes no difference to me. To me, you are born with most of these skills.
    Last edited by mallamalla; 11-27-2007 at 05:16 PM.

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=mallamalla;2232449]Those are ridiculous comparisons. You need specific skills to have those jobs. To be a president, you need to be a leader of men, you need to trust the right people, you need to have thick skin and you need to trust your instincts. Do you actually think the president is making every single decision? No, but he is the fall guy for every decision his administration proposes and adopts.

    Obviously you need to have some experience in leadership roles, but being a US Senator as opposed to a governor makes no difference to me. To me, you are born with most of these skills.[/QUOTE]


    And how is Guiliani a "leader of men". People love to say Guiliani was a true "leader" during 9/11 but how?? By holding a few news conferences? Attending a few funerals? Walking down toward GZ side by side with Bernie Kerik while the cameras followed- did you expect him to run the opposite direction? Or maybe his leadership skills "showed" when he foolishly went against city code and put both NYPD and FDNY command centers under one roof forcing them to operate as one unit and causing chaos b/c the two sides did not know who was in control, the FDNY or NYPD? Or perhaps he showed his leadership by prematurely announcing that the air at GZ was safe? Maybe leadership was when instead of allowing a govt agency trained and experienced in damage/safety assessment and major disasters to assess the safety of the buildings in the Wall Street are he gave that responsibility to a bunch of landlords to decide for themselves? Maybe he should have listened to his advisers years earlier who recommended putting the emergency command center in Brooklyn instead of the #1 terrorist target in the world (which had already been hit) ? Yeah thats leadership! And, is it leadership when you recommend your criminal buddy, an unqualified corrections officer who happened to have an actual rise in NYC crime rates under his watch (not bratton's)as the leader of Homeland Security for the Nation???? No thats not lack of leadership, that is simply poor judgement, something Guiliani has been guilty of time and time again, only to mask it with his arrogance...kind like our current president

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=PocketJet;2232448]He was a lousy husband, a lousy father, he lived with a gay guy while he was sorting out his personal life, was not very high in polls as mayor at a time when a very unfortunate event "recreated him." That was my take on the guy. For what it is worth.[/QUOTE]
    Very original. I'm sure I won't see anything like it for the next year.:rolleyes:

  17. #37
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    I really don't care if you think it is original or not. I spoke my peace; don't like it tough ****

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=Big Blocker;2232181]Yep, as I said, resume inflation.

    [B]I think Rudy really appeals to naive voters[/B] who like the man on horseback kind of candidate. He was "tough" then, he will be tough now when we need him. I don't need to know anything else about him, and what I do know that I don't like I will simply ignore.[/QUOTE]

    interesting....

    yet you obviously support john edwards based on what he is claiming he will do...edwards; a failed vice-presidential candidate who could not carry his own state in a general election and by all accounts, would've been defeated had he run for re-election in the senate he was so miserable in office....

    but Rudy is the one who appeals to naive voters....:shakehead:coocoo:

    hysterical...

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2232514]And how is Guiliani a "leader of men". People love to say Guiliani was a true "leader" during 9/11 but how?? By holding a few news conferences? Attending a few funerals? Walking down toward GZ side by side with Bernie Kerik while the cameras followed- did you expect him to run the opposite direction? Or maybe his leadership skills "showed" when he foolishly went against city code and put both NYPD and FDNY command centers under one roof forcing them to operate as one unit and causing chaos b/c the two sides did not know who was in control, the FDNY or NYPD? Or perhaps he showed his leadership by prematurely announcing that the air at GZ was safe? Maybe leadership was when instead of allowing a govt agency trained and experienced in damage/safety assessment and major disasters to assess the safety of the buildings in the Wall Street are he gave that responsibility to a bunch of landlords to decide for themselves? Maybe he should have listened to his advisers years earlier who recommended putting the emergency command center in Brooklyn instead of the #1 terrorist target in the world (which had already been hit) ? Yeah thats leadership! And, is it leadership when you recommend your criminal buddy, an unqualified corrections officer who happened to have an actual rise in NYC crime rates under his watch (not bratton's)as the leader of Homeland Security for the Nation???? No thats not lack of leadership, that is simply poor judgement, something Guiliani has been guilty of time and time again, only to mask it with his arrogance...kind like our current president[/QUOTE]

    I never said Guiliani was a leader of men. I am saying that trashing him for not having "experience" is a bit overrated.

    But since we are on the subject, you are nitpicking quite a bit. You are only focusing on the negatives, and in a situation such as 9/11, nothing could have been done flawlessly. But what Giuliani attempted to do was give Americans hope. He was the symbol that urged us to go back to work, to live our lives as we normally would. If you want to blame him for the bad decisions (which I am sure he was advised on) you also have to give him credit for things that may have naturally transpired. It works both ways and you only focus on him as the fall guy but fail to give him any credit whatsoever. After 9/11, for the first time in a long time, everyone was pro american and we all loved each other. Yes, that perhaps is a natural occurance, and maybe some of his speeches were written for him, but you cant blame him for everything that went wrong and refuse to praise him for what stands out as good.

    Compare New York after 9/11 to the idiot in New Orleans after Katrina.

    You site all these places where Giuliani failed in the aftermath of 9/11 (clearly all his fault) yet in cleaning up the city, somneone else ought to get all the credit for that acievement.
    Last edited by mallamalla; 11-27-2007 at 08:38 PM.

  20. #40
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    [QUOTE=PocketJet;2232448]He was a lousy husband, a lousy father, he lived with a gay guy while he was sorting out his personal life, was not very high in polls as mayor at a time when a very unfortunate event "recreated him." That was my take on the guy. For what it is worth.[/QUOTE]

    sounds like a description of most politicians, to be honest.

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