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Thread: The Economy: A House of Cards

  1. #41
    [QUOTE]I assume like your fellow Ron "E-LOVE-UTION" Paul supporter JC, you think Ron Paul will simply wave a magic wand, and create a fiscal utopia. Reality Check, if in some crazy alternate universe Ron Paul has ANY Chance to get elected President, he STILL has to get every single one of the changes you want approvel by the actual law-making body of our Government. Want to take bets on how THEY might vote on the Ron Paul changes?

    Let me guess, Ron Paul will use "DIPLOMACY!" on Congress?:D[/QUOTE]

    That is insulting our intelligence.

    I know Ron Paul wouldn't implement many changes as President, and that's EXACTLY what I want.

    The alternative is more socialism or more War. We need a President who won't use the executive branch to trample on the Constitutional Republic any more han it already has.
    Any candidate other than Ron Paul will just accelerate the bankrupting of our nation, which will lead to higher taxes. That's why Ron Paul would make a good President.

  2. #42
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [quote=bitonti;2234309]there is no free market way to protect jobs and stay lean and mean

    if the auto companies in michigan made better cars than the Japanese they wouldn't have any problem

    it's survival of the fittest, that's why the foreigners like to invest in USA, we aren't as socialistic as Europe or China.[/quote]

    not to criticize as pointedly as usual this time
    some of what you say is correct

    car-wise it depends on what you mean by "better"
    many korean cars which are among the unsafest and unroadworthy
    are not "better" but offer economy in price/gas , which frees up
    disposable income for other "better" "rational" choices

    does the 30%-50% a month i save by driving an new yet ultimately unsafe/lower quality POS and ability to afford other stuff
    outweigh the higher probability i will get in a crash with the POS that i will not survive?

    (until very recently, korean consumers had to pay massive tariffs
    to drive US cars so it was not a 2-way street)

    if the us became truly unstable and unworthy of protecting their investment, the foreign investors would pull out,
    we're not in danger of chavezization/islamokookdom...

    yet

    although the lib*s are trying the darnedest

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2234400]if the us became truly unstable and unworthy of protecting their investment, the foreign investors would pull out,
    we're not in danger of chavezization/islamokookdom...[/QUOTE]

    Foreign cars suck balls.

    I wouldn't mind if I could drive w/o worrying if the college kid next to me is going to hit me with his souped-up tricked-out Hyundai.

    FRONT WHEEL DRIVE CARS DONT NEED SPOILERS YOU MORONS.

    Don't you idiots understand the principal behind a spoiler?

  4. #44
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2234368]My Lord.....where to begin?



    Yes, exactly. **** them. And no, they will NOT have a bearing on my old age, as I will NOT be "needy". Personal Responsabillity works great when applied correctly.



    My retirement will be paid for.....by me. Any little pittance I get from Social Insecurity will not, trust me, be a major part of my qualify of life post Retirement.

    I assume like your fellow Ron "E-LOVE-UTION" Paul supporter JC, you think Ron Paul will simply wave a magic wand, and create a fiscal utopia. Reality Check, if in some crazy alternate universe Ron Paul has ANY Chance to get elected President, he STILL has to get every single one of the changes you want approvel by the actual law-making body of our Government. Want to take bets on how THEY might vote on the Ron Paul changes?

    Let me guess, Ron Paul will use "DIPLOMACY!" on Congress?:D[/QUOTE]


    Don't insult my intelligence... you vote for Ron Paul because he is the only candidate who believes in the federalist system and constitution (specifically the 10th Amendment). It doesn't matter what gets passed, it matters that the American people hear his principled message and they understand the government is not supposed to take care of you. It matters that a true constitutionalist will have veto power and can appoint supreme court justices. ONCE AGAIN, we do not live in a vacuum.

  5. #45
    [QUOTE=JetsCrazey;2234377]That is insulting our intelligence.

    I know Ron Paul wouldn't implement many changes as President, and that's EXACTLY what I want.

    The alternative is more socialism or more War. We need a President who won't use the executive branch to trample on the Constitutional Republic any more han it already has.
    Any candidate other than Ron Paul will just accelerate the bankrupting of our nation, which will lead to higher taxes. That's why Ron Paul would make a good President.[/QUOTE]

    Good call...that too JC. ;)

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2234107]Actually, I can. I'm willing to bet I make substantially less than most of our resident Adult Working JI-Politic-Board posters.

    [/QUOTE]

    Other than the Pastor student!!

  7. #47
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [quote=jefethegreat;2234449]Don't insult my intelligence... you vote for Ron Paul because he is the only candidate who believes in the federalist system and constitution (specifically the 10th Amendment). It doesn't matter what gets passed, it matters that the American people hear his principled message and they understand the government is not supposed to take care of you. It matters that a true constitutionalist will have veto power and can appoint supreme court justices. ONCE AGAIN, we do not live in a vacuum.[/quote]

    its said nature abhors a vacuum, yet rupaul still sucks

    if we have a libtard congress and rupaul (scary scenario!)
    rupauls scotus nominees, if any will get borked

    thank Gd that will never happen

  8. #48
    [QUOTE=jefethegreat;2234449]Don't insult my intelligence... you vote for Ron Paul because he is the only candidate who believes in the federalist system and constitution (specifically the 10th Amendment). It doesn't matter what gets passed, it matters that the American people hear his principled message and they understand the government is not supposed to take care of you. It matters that a true constitutionalist will have veto power and can appoint supreme court justices. ONCE AGAIN, we do not live in a vacuum.[/QUOTE]

    It must really be nice to still be a naive idealist. I wish I was still.

  9. #49
    [QUOTE=JetsCrazey;2234113]Warfish...just because things aren't bad today doesn't mean we're on the right track. Anyone who knows anything about economics and the banking system knows that they only reason we're experiencing any prosperity today is at the expense of our children and our cash savings. At some point this vicious cycle has to stop.

    We're on the verge of a global banking crisis which will lead to rampant inflation which will erode everyone's savings so the bankers can be bailed out. $516 trillion in derivatives will cost everyone if even 15% of those special performance contracts don't perform. The immoral lunatic financial system can't last much longer and something HAS to be done.[/QUOTE]

    Economies cycle all the time. Recessions are most often a shacking out of the excesses of the up cycle. This is nothing new the only difference is the data flows much faster today and the markets tend to correct faster. None of this is new. The idea that innovation and growth is going to come to an end is also not a new idea, the doom and gloom crowd has been saying it for ever.

    Lower housing prices will mean more affordability for new home owners, lower stock prices will mean people can buy assets at a cheaper base. Pause and retrenchment is normal and floating an idea that a different mechanism would prevent speculation and over reaching doesn't really fly. We can always do better but in order to grow risk must be taken and with risk their is risk period.

  10. #50
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2234107]Actually, I can. I'm willing to bet I make substantially less than most of our resident Adult Working JI-Politic-Board posters.

    Gas here went from $2.75/Gallon to $3.10/Gallon, give or take of course. That change is not what I would call "soaring", nor has it effected my driving choices in the very least.

    My heating costs havn't gone up substantially? Is $120/month "substantially higher" than $105/month? I would say no.

    Food prices? Lawl. As if $150 every week is SOOOO much more a burden than $140 a week.

    Sorry man. As a lower-middle-class American, I don't buy it that the economy has gotton as bad as you all like to claim.[/QUOTE]

    As a middle class american with a wife and two kids living on a single income I have been affected negatively by the economy , specifically the housing market.

    I am having a house built an hour from my office in a nice neighborhood to raise children. We moved so far out allow my wife the ability to stay at home and raise our children. Since listing my current house we have had to drop our asking price over 60k and even the builder has made some concessions in the cost of the new house to help make this all work.

    The reality is our plan for my wife to stay home with our children is quickly fading and she is going to get something part time. Professionally I am having a very good year so (knock on wood) she should be able to stay home in a year or two.

    But none of this matters if i cannot sell my current home. My next door neighbor made 90k more than i am currently listed for and he has only been in for 15 months. The real red flag here is we dropped the asking price 20k before a weekend and nobody even came to look.

  11. #51
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2235619]Economies cycle all the time. Recessions are most often a shacking out of the excesses of the up cycle. This is nothing new the only difference is the data flows much faster today and the markets tend to correct faster. None of this is new. The idea that innovation and growth is going to come to an end is also not a new idea, the doom and gloom crowd has been saying it for ever.

    Lower housing prices will mean more affordability for new home owners, lower stock prices will mean people can buy assets at a cheaper base. Pause and retrenchment is normal and floating an idea that a different mechanism would prevent speculation and over reaching doesn't really fly. We can always do better but in order to grow risk must be taken and with risk their is risk period.[/QUOTE]

    I don't think that you mentioned anything about the depth of the recent recessions. They have been more like bust cycles and this one looks like a real winner.....

  12. #52
    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2234400]not to criticize as pointedly as usual this time
    some of what you say is correct
    [/QUOTE]

    Here's my question if we are talking about protectionism, which helps the American worker more, buying a Toyota assembled in Japan or a Ford assembled in Mexico or Haiti?

  13. #53
    [QUOTE=bitonti;2236059]Here's my question if we are talking about protectionism, which helps the American worker more, buying a Toyota assembled in Tennesee or a Ford assembled in Mexico or Haiti?[/QUOTE]

    Fixed. (Stop making me fix your posts my friend :P)

  14. #54
    Jets Insider VIP
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    [QUOTE=Jetfan_Johnny;2235655]As a middle class american with a wife and two kids living on a single income I have been affected negatively by the economy , specifically the housing market.

    I am having a house built an hour from my office in a nice neighborhood to raise children. We moved so far out allow my wife the ability to stay at home and raise our children. Since listing my current house we have had to drop our asking price over 60k and even the builder has made some concessions in the cost of the new house to help make this all work.

    The reality is our plan for my wife to stay home with our children is quickly fading and she is going to get something part time. Professionally I am having a very good year so (knock on wood) she should be able to stay home in a year or two.

    But none of this matters if i cannot sell my current home. My next door neighbor made 90k more than i am currently listed for and he has only been in for 15 months. The real red flag here is we dropped the asking price 20k before a weekend and nobody even came to look.[/QUOTE]

    That sucks, bro. I have a few friends that are going through the same crap.

    Don't think your going to get any sympathy from anyone else here on the board. They're just gonna tell you that you should have your cable disconnected or ride a unicycle to work to save money.

  15. #55
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2236266]That sucks, bro. I have a few friends that are going through the same crap.

    Don't think your going to get any sympathy from anyone else here on the board. They're just gonna tell you that you should have your cable disconnected or ride a unicycle to work to save money.[/QUOTE]

    You're right, other than the sympathy I would offer any friend here on JI, I have little else to offer. No one forced him to over-extend. No one forced him to try and move up. No one forced him to have Kids (which cost alot of money, obviosuly). No one forced him to live a lifestyle that requires two incomes.

    All comes down to personal choices (some good, some bad), luck (which really is more knowledge of markets and timing) and personal responsabillity.

    Does it suck, and do I wish he was having an easier go? OF COURSE. Just as I would for ANY friend on mine here on JI.

    But do I think some ebil ebil bad economay and biased market full of piwates is to blame? Not a chance.

  16. #56
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2236087]Fixed. (Stop making me fix your posts my friend :P)[/QUOTE]

    i knew this 'fixing' would come in handy sooner or later

  17. #57
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [quote=bitonti;2236059]Here's my question if we are talking about protectionism, which helps the American worker more, buying a Toyota assembled in Japan or a Ford assembled in Mexico or Haiti?[/quote]

    you need to factor in a lot of things, youd have to devise a kind
    of weighted benefits matrix, some of the benefits and some of the
    of the detriments are tangible and intangible.

    also depends what your philosophy and attitude towards
    manufacturing, labor, wages, benefits, corporate profits,
    the prestige of dominating a particular industry, and free trade are.

    consider 1st where does the most profit go, to America or outside
    (Germany, Japan, Korea)?

    2nd what is the net profit to the mfr on the same car made
    all or in part in different places?

    toyotas made in japan are imports with the bulk
    of the profit going to japanese economy, thats the worst case

    fords made / assembled elsewhere return varying
    degrees of profit to Ford/America

    the Ford union man whose family worked for Ford for decades
    but lost his job due to Ford deciding to pull out of his state
    is hurt the most

    the people who prefer Made in America 100% at all costs will be ambivalent
    towards the cars made by Toyota in the South even as they employ
    American workers

    (i myself have never bought or leased a foreign owned brand except for my made in the USA jeep coming off lease-jeep was controlled by daimler at the time (05) i assumed a relatives lease, and prefer to buy american)

    there are some like my dad who worked for 50+ years in industrial manufacturing, going to the grave believing that the manufacturing sector
    with all its pros and cons is necessary to keep the lesser skilled among us
    gainfully employed and out of trouble/welfare - a social good from commerce, for americans 1st and foremost

    everyone else will be happy-
    being strictly neutral and looking at the bottom line
    if our economy, GDP, standard of living are good
    and unemployment #s are low,
    an increased % of foreign branded cars
    driven in America has an overall net benefit if the cars
    we drive are safer, more economical to gas up and repair,
    cheaper to insure, cost less to purchase, are "greener".
    we have more money to spend on other things than
    inefficent lemons on wheels

    the only loss long term IMO is often of prestige -
    many countries survived the exit of their consumer electronics
    manufacturers just fine-

    in mature/saturated markets with decades of manufacturer
    consolidation and entry/exits (Toyota in, Fiat, Studebaker, Renault out)
    such as our own domestic auto market
    ultimately, the invisible hand of free(er) markets
    generally guides car buyers to making optimal choices

    to the benefit of drivers/owners

    to the detriment of the
    auto workers who may or may have not priced themselves
    out of jobs as overpriced, non-competitive labor

    and to the car manufacturers, their other employees
    and shareholders when the mfrs are slow to adapt

    makes you wonder if the USA formed a Trade Zone
    like the EEC with Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean
    - while those other countries are not and would not be US states
    wed form a new Euro-like currency that could exceed all others
    in value
    if the economic effects kept their people from illegally
    emigrating here
    would that be so bad?
    Last edited by flushingjet; 11-29-2007 at 07:26 PM.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2236334]You're right, other than the sympathy I would offer any friend here on JI, I have little else to offer. No one forced him to over-extend. No one forced him to try and move up. No one forced him to have Kids (which cost alot of money, obviosuly). No one forced him to live a lifestyle that requires two incomes.

    All comes down to personal choices (some good, some bad), luck (which really is more knowledge of markets and timing) and personal responsabillity.

    Does it suck, and do I wish he was having an easier go? OF COURSE. Just as I would for ANY friend on mine here on JI.

    But do I think some ebil ebil bad economay and biased market full of piwates is to blame? Not a chance.[/QUOTE]

    Once our kids are old enough, my wife and I are actually going to try and set up a lifestyle in which we can live "x" amount of months outside North America, and keep a small apartment or such here so we can create the lifestyle we want. Sometimes you have to make such choices to live the way you want. Problem is, the majority here want to have two cars, 3,000 square foot homes, cottages, private club memberships, private school for the kids, three week vacations every year, new furniture, new wardrobes, etc...and NOT have to pay for it.

    It truly does come down to choice. We have friends who constantly complain about how they want to be able to stay home with their kids, yet they are not willing to change their lifestyles to do so....I don't have much sympathy in these conversations, and my "suggestions" usually don't go over very well (s**t or get off the pot).

  19. #59
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;2236054]I don't think that you mentioned anything about the depth of the recent recessions. They have been more like bust cycles and this one looks like a real winner.....[/QUOTE]

    Recent recessions have at best been mild contractions and very short lived for the most part.

  20. #60
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2239906]Recent recessions have at best been mild contractions and very short lived for the most part.[/QUOTE]


    Not if you aks tech folks.....


    Economic Disaster Ahead
    [url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=25_APRkrXeY[/url]

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