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Thread: 12 Army Captains

  1. #1

    12 Army Captains

    [quote]
    A dozen former U.S. Army captains wrote a column for The Washington Post last month entitled "The Real Iraq We Knew" in which they set out to describe the war they had experienced, instead of the one generals and politicians had described.

    The officers' words have stirred controversy, with some critics calling them traitors. But that hasn't stopped them from speaking out.

    In the op-ed piece, published on the fifth anniversary of the authorization of military force in Iraq, the 12 captains wrote that they had "seen the corruption and the sectarian division."

    "We understand what it's like to be stretched too thin. And we know when it's time to get out," they said.

    "Captain is a unique position in the Army because you are really a cog at the center of it all," said Jason Blindauer, a veteran of five years in the Army, including three deployments to Iraq. "As we used to say, you can see the asses of the generals and the faces of the privates."

    But a $35,000 retention bonus could not keep these captains in, even though at the outset they had been deeply committed to the military.

    "There is no job that I ever wanted to do other than being a military officer," Blindauer said. "As far as the prospect of going to war with Iraq, I was excited about it. I was a young infantry officer with the opportunity to go to war."

    Jeff Bouldin served in the Army for four years and in Iraq for 14 months. Like most of the 12 captains, he initially supported the invasion, but gradually became disillusioned with the leaders in charge of the war.

    "The tactics we used and the overall goals in every province I served in had no semblance to any military logic that I had ever known," he said.

    Then there was the prospect of repeated deployments without much time in between for family.

    "I had a young family," Bouldin said. "I had a son who was 24 months old and I had seen him for four months of his entire life."

    Blindauer and Bouldin are talking in Elizabeth Bostwick's Dallas apartment. Bostwick spent four years in the Army.

    "I believed in my mission and beyond that I tried not to think about it," Bostwick said.

    She said she tried not to think beyond her own security mission with the Military Police. Even though she comes from a military family, she wasn't gung-ho about the war.

    "Knowing that the preponderance of your peer group is home shopping, having stable relationships not interrupted by deployments it's disheartening," Bostwick said. "[B]You're saying enough of this bumper-sticker patriotism. Do something about it or stop wasting my time[/B]."

    To the group of 12, doing something about it means signing up to serve, and they suggest that a draft may be necessary. Jason Blindauer quotes German military philosopher Carl von Clausewitz, saying a country has to have both the strength of means and the strength of will to win a war.

    "We don't have a military large enough to conduct the long-duration, low-intensity wars, and we haven't harnessed the collective will of the American people. So what good is it?" Blindauer said.

    Luis Montalvan, who currently resides in Brooklyn, N.Y., joined the Army when he was 17 and stayed in for 17 years. He did two tours in Iraq. Montalvan angrily disagrees with the many bloggers who say the 12 captains ignore the apparent success of the recent troop surge.

    "[B]What has the government of Iraq done? It has done nothing, so it doesn't matter how many tactical successes you have if you're not having any strategic successes.[/B]"

    Montalvan says the 12 have no political agenda; most are independents. [B]The captains believe that current American strategy is simply arming and training Sunni and ****e militias for a future civil war. [/B]Montalvan, who worked closely with Iraqis on both his deployments, said he is disgusted with the level of corruption he witnessed. Even worse, he said, is American inaction in the face of it.

    "There is still no Iraqi-American anticorruption action plan. This corruption is feeding, sustaining the sectarian divide."

    On his first tour in Iraq in 2003, Montalvan worked on the Iraq-Syrian border with only 40 soldiers trying to watch over a major foreign entry point where corruption ruled. At one point things got nasty.

    "Some men tried to assassinate me in December of '03 and they nearly succeeded," he said. "They were wielding knives and hand grenades, and I was injured. One of them was killed and the other was severely wounded but he staggered off."

    Montalvan said he is "not altogether comfortable talking about it." He says it's something he's dealing with and will "probably deal with for sometime."

    [B]Some bloggers have called the 12 cowards and traitors. [/B]

    "For those people who would rather thump their chests and say that these people don't know anything or that these people are cowards or anything along those lines, they can go to hell," he said.

    When the interview was over, Montalvan went into his bathroom and got sick. He apologized, saying it may have been side effects of medications he was taking. But his friends said it was more likely the result of reliving painful events in Iraq.
    [/quote]

    from NPR via WashPost

  2. #2
    Neo cons - 'who needs diplomacy?'...'just send more troops.' ' We don't talk to our enemies'. Simple minded polices, simple minded slogans = disasterous results

    The American Army is stretched very thin. The Army has had to drop standards to gain enough recruits.

    Iran has over 11MM in it's military. I agree these low intensity wars don't harness the American people as for the most part they don't have to sacrifice for it, yet.

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;2234287]Simple minded polices, simple minded slogans = disasterous results.[/QUOTE]

    "I'll just use DIPLOMACY!" - Hillary R. Clinton, Queen Lord of the Simple Minded Meanngless Slogan Answer.

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2234294]"I'll just use DIPLOMACY!" - Hillary R. Clinton, Queen Lord of the Simple Minded Meanngless Slogan Answer.[/QUOTE]

    She is Bush lite

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2234294]"I'll just use DIPLOMACY!" - Hillary R. Clinton, Queen Lord of the Simple Minded Meanngless Slogan Answer.[/QUOTE]

    we all know Hillary stinks that's not relevant to the last 6 years of Bush war failure, other than the fact she enabled it.

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2234294]"I'll just use DIPLOMACY!" - Hillary R. Clinton, Queen Lord of the Simple Minded Meanngless Slogan Answer.[/QUOTE]

    That reminds me of her answer in a debate regarding education and teachers who underperform. Hillary, in cultivating the village raising the child mindset, said this about underperforming teachers - "We'll weed them out". Right, Hill.

    How no one challenged her on that, especially any teacher's union, is beyond me. Oh, wait. They didn't call her out because they know she just opened her mouth and said something she didn't mean, just something to skate through the moment.

  7. #7
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [quote=Jetdawgg;2234287]Neo cons - 'who needs diplomacy?'...'just send more troops.' ' We don't talk to our enemies'. Simple minded polices, simple minded slogans = disasterous results

    The American Army is stretched very thin. The Army has had to drop standards to gain enough recruits.

    Iran has over 11MM in it's military. I agree these low intensity wars don't harness the American people as for the most part they don't have to sacrifice for it, yet.[/quote]

    neo-stalinist unpatriots-"lets talk down any success this country has including in iraq which is killing us politically, or flat out lie"

    1.5M active duty US armed forces personnel - only 10-15% engaged in the ME

    some non-patriots might be stretched in tight places but our armed forces aint

    most are sitting around playing cards
    and flipping burgers in the galley like
    benedict arnold dawgg used to do

    according to bene-dawgg youd think all the US has is cavalry
    with bolt action rifles

    some enemies you can talk to - looks like the norks flipped

    others you cant

    tell me again how a nation awash in oil that worries aloud about
    wiping other nations off the map and "defensively"
    test fires missiles every day needs nuclear centrifuges

    i love that story
    Last edited by flushingjet; 11-28-2007 at 04:49 PM.

  8. #8
    More drivel from the wierdo.

    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2234341]neo-stalinist unpatriots-"lets talk down any success this country has including in iraq which is killing us politically, or flat out lie"

    1.5M active duty US armed forces personnel - only 10-15% engaged in the ME

    some non-patriots might be stretched in tight places but our armed forces aint

    most are sitting around playing cards
    and flipping burgers in the galley like
    benedict arnold dawgg used to do

    according to bene-dawgg youd think all the US has is cavalry
    with bolt action rifles

    some enemies you can talk to - looks like the norks flipped

    others you cant

    tell me again how a nation awash in oil that worries aloud about
    wiping other nations off the map and "defensively"
    test fires missiles every day needs nuclear centrifuges

    i love that story[/QUOTE]

  9. #9
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [quote=cr726;2234374]More drivel from the wierdo.[/quote]

    back from your honeymoon so soon?

    [URL]http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/26/iraq.bride/index.html[/URL]

    great insightful commentary as usual from you, thanks

    now get back to work and rubber stamp/fast track a few thousand
    more nigerian entry visas...
    we dont have enough guys selling fake "roulexes" on the street corners
    Last edited by flushingjet; 11-28-2007 at 05:10 PM.

  10. #10
    Jets Insider VIP
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2234294]"I'll just use DIPLOMACY!" - Hillary R. Clinton, Queen Lord of the Simple Minded Meanngless Slogan Answer.[/QUOTE]

    Really? Hilliary is the Queen of Meaningless Slogans?

    Would would be the King then?

    What recent group of powerful people have mastered the art of the three-second soundbite jingoistic cliche slogans?

    Shock and awe?

    Stand down, stand up?

    Weapons of mass destruction program related activities?

    Axis of evil?

    Mission accomplished?

    Stay the course?

    Freedom is on the march?

    Turned the corner?

    Last throes?

    Slam dunk?

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2234341]neo-stalinist unpatriots-"lets talk down any success this country has including in iraq which is killing us politically, or flat out lie"

    1.5M active duty US armed forces personnel - only 10-15% engaged in the ME

    some non-patriots might be stretched in tight places but our armed forces aint

    most are sitting around playing cards
    and flipping burgers in the galley like
    benedict arnold dawgg used to do

    according to bene-dawgg youd think all the US has is cavalry
    with bolt action rifles

    some enemies you can talk to - looks like the norks flipped

    others you cant

    tell me again how a nation awash in oil that worries aloud about
    wiping other nations off the map and "defensively"
    test fires missiles every day needs nuclear centrifuges

    i love that story[/QUOTE]

    We talked to the Russians and the Cubans. We can talk to the current enemies of today. It is indefensible to think otherwise.

    The Russians had far many more nukes....and placing them in Cuba was a direct threat to the USA. Doesn't Bush have the balls or brains of Kennedy and Reagan?

    Iran does not have nukes and is years away from having them.

  12. #12
    Teddy how is it in the inside? Don't they limit your time on the computer in jail? Glad to see the guards give props to the Unabomber every now and then.

    Strapper you keep guessing what my job is, man you can't get anything right can you?

    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2234403]back from your honeymoon so soon?

    [URL]http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/26/iraq.bride/index.html[/URL]

    great insightful commentary as usual from you, thanks

    now get back to work and rubber stamp/fast track a few thousand
    more nigerian entry visas...
    we dont have enough guys selling fake "roulexes" on the street corners[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by cr726; 11-28-2007 at 05:46 PM.

  13. #13
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [quote=cr726;2234466]Teddy how is it in the inside? Don't they limit your time on the computer in jail? Glad to see the guards give props to the Unabomber every now and then.

    Strapper you keep guessing what my job is, man you can't get anything right can you?[/quote]

    ?

    i could not care less what you do with a strapon, but going by your insightful posts and careful rebuttal of others points i know its not successful, knowledge-based or in the entertainment industry

    maybe some "men" would consider it an impersonal way to pass time
    and make some tax free $ while "entertaining"
    Last edited by flushingjet; 11-28-2007 at 06:27 PM.

  14. #14
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [quote=PlumberKhan;2234421]Really? Hilliary is the Queen of Meaningless Slogans?

    Would would be the King then?

    What recent group of powerful people have mastered the art of the three-second soundbite jingoistic cliche slogans?

    Shock and awe?

    Stand down, stand up?

    Weapons of mass destruction program related activities?

    Axis of evil?

    Mission accomplished?

    Stay the course?

    Freedom is on the march?

    Turned the corner?

    Last throes?

    Slam dunk?[/quote]

    soooo....
    iraq won GW 2, never lost a battle, Saddam not b hussein Obama was benelovent, a man who gassed his own people and had a nuclear reactor and tonnes of wmd material and knowhow, but yet somehow had no WMDs, none,
    even though we found many over the years, and the nyt said so, other nice neighboring countries did not interfere and kill our troops in iraq , and the countries in the Axis of Evil are not evil but crazy mixed up misunderstood kids trapped in a world they never made and the surge was a flop

    thanks for the clarification, dr. paul

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2234421]Really? Hilliary is the Queen of Meaningless Slogans?

    Would would be the King then?[/QUOTE]

    George W. Bush, of course.

    Who did you think I would say?

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2234612]George W. Bush, of course.

    Who did you think I would say?[/QUOTE]

    Karl Rove? ;)

  17. #17
    Jets Insider VIP
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    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2234556]soooo....
    iraq won GW 2, never lost a battle, Saddam not b hussein Obama was benelovent, a man who gassed his own people and had a nuclear reactor and tonnes of wmd material and knowhow, but yet somehow had no WMDs, none,
    even though we found many over the years, and the nyt said so, other nice neighboring countries did not interfere and kill our troops in iraq , and the countries in the Axis of Evil are not evil but crazy mixed up misunderstood kids trapped in a world they never made and the surge was a flop

    thanks for the clarification, dr. paul[/QUOTE]


    All that still doesn't make the motto's less goofy. The American people deserve a more detailed explanation of our mission in Iraq besides stand up, stand down.

    Were still waiting for those Iraqi retards to stand the f*ck up. Nobody told us in the beginning that it was going to cost us a freaking trillion dollars to get a group of people to stand the hell up.

    And we don't even get any cheap fuqing oil out of the deal.

    What a ripoff.

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