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Thread: Did the Clinton Machine pull a fast one?

  1. #1

    Did the Clinton Machine pull a fast one?

    As you may or may not know, New Hampshire has some strange voter registration rules .. for example, you can register to vote in New Hampshire without being a NH resident, and you can register in one day, [B]on the spot[/B], you just have to say you are thinking about moving to NH

    Having said that, there are reports floating around that the Clinton Machine bussed in thousands of voters from neighboring states like Mass & Vermont to put Hillary over the top .. apparently Bill and Hill read their staff the riot act and told them to get it done .. in fact, I'm hearing many of the cars at Hillary's late rallies had Mass & Vermont plates

    Granted, this sounds a little far-fetched, but OTOH does it not sound like something the Clinton Machine would do?

    Its not illegal, its legal in NH, so it wouldn't be breaking any rules to the best of my knowledge, but it is mighty slick and they don't call Bill "Slick Willy" for nothing .. and they don't call it the Clinton Machine for nothing either

    Maybe that's why the polls were so off .. by double digits .. because they only polled NH residents?
    Last edited by Green Jets & Ham; 01-09-2008 at 02:29 PM.

  2. #2
    This race is as wide open as Hillary's legs

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;2308281]As you may or may not know, New Hampshire has some strange voter registration rules .. for example, you can register to vote in New Hampshire without being a NH resident, and you can register in one day, on the spot, you just have to say you are thinking about moving to NH

    Having said that, there are reports floating around that the Clinton Machine bussed in thousands of voters from neighboring states like Mass & Vermont to put Hillary over the top .. apparently Bill and Hill read their staff the riot act and told them to get it done .. in fact, I'm hearing many of the cars at Hillary's late rallies had Mass & Vermont plates

    Granted, this sounds a little far-fetched, but OTOH does it not sound like something the Clinton Machine would do?

    Its not illegal, its legal in NH, so it wouldn't be breaking any rules to the best of my knowledge, but it is mighty slick and they don't call Bill "Slick Willy" for nothing .. and they don't call it the Clinton Machine for nothing either

    Maybe that's why the polls were so off .. by double digits .. because they only polled NH residents?[/QUOTE]


    Not buying this.

    The exits make it clear she won because she convinced women to come back to her corner. If you look at the polls, Obama actually got the same 36%-37% he was projected to recieve, and if there was a huge influx of new voters for Hillary his percentage would have been lower than expected, I think. Hillary was able to rile up late-deciding women to her cause. That, combined with McCain pulling in some of the indies who might have gone for Obama, seems to have made the difference. Whatever you think of her use of the "woman card" to get it done, it was good politics.

    Obama needs to get focused on critical fights in Nevads and SC now, and not worry about this stuff.

  4. #4
    no ... the fake crying (play the victim/gender card) worked and was enough to beat Obama.

  5. #5
    I am sure they influenced the vote, but not sure to what degree. I can tell you that the Clinton's organized massive labor support to show up. I tend to think if they went through the trouble of importing the union leadership, they were not their only to observe.

    Of course, the tears were very calculated, too.

  6. #6
    This same complaint has been made about Obama bussing students into Iowa from Illinois and elsewhere.

  7. #7
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    I was watching the Dem debate (Saturday?) and I remember thinking Hillary's 'reality check' line was a pretty good one. Obama and Edwards were falling all over themselves to express how "personal" the struggle to be a Saint on Earth is and how great they've beem, and Hillary called them out on it and wiped the floor with them. It was awesome.

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2308400]I was watching the Dem debate (Saturday?) and I remember thinking Hillary's 'reality check' line was a pretty good one. Obama and Edwards were falling all over themselves to express how "personal" the struggle to be a Saint on Earth is and how great they've beem, and Hillary called them out on it and wiped the floor with them. It was awesome.[/QUOTE]


    THe same time that was going on I thought Edwards looked far to eager to side with Obama to get rid of Hillary. That only helped Obama and made it look, particularly to female voters, that he was ganging up on the girl.

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Big Blocker;2308430]THe same time that was going on I thought Edwards looked far to eager to side with Obama to get rid of Hillary. That only helped Obama and made it look, particularly to female voters, that he was ganging up on the girl.[/QUOTE]

    In hindsight, I think you are right about how this played. I admit I thought it was a good moment (for Edwards and for Obama) at the time, but it may go down as a "Rick Lazio" moment that brought female sympathy behind Hillary. Further proof that you never really know what will resonate at these debates.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2308439]In hindsight, I think you are right about how this played. I admit I thought it was a good moment (for Edwards and for Obama) at the time, but it may go down as a "Rick Lazio" moment that brought female sympathy behind Hillary. Further proof that you never really know what will resonate at these debates.[/QUOTE]

    That may be true...but don't discount the substantive aspects of what Hillary actually said. Obama and Edwards were practically on their knees for each other takling about how personal everything is for them and how each has all sorts of moral authority and Goodness and they ridiculously exaggerated things they "accomplished" and Hillary called them out on it with facts. They reached and got exposed. It was a good play by Hillary, but the opportunity for that play was provided by overzealousness on Obama's and Edwards' part.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2308464]That may be true...but don't discount the substantive aspects of what Hillary actually said. Obama and Edwards were practically on their knees for each other takling about how personal everything is for them and how each has all sorts of moral authority and Goodness and they ridiculously exaggerated things they "accomplished" and Hillary called them out on it with facts. They reached and got exposed. It was a good play by Hillary, but the opportunity for that play was provided by overzealousness on Obama's and Edwards' part.[/QUOTE]

    You may be right. That debate, for whatever reason, clearly did not help Edwards or Obama at all.

    My own take, in retrospect, was that Obama was playing not-to-lose. I think he should have defended his own record more forcefully and called her out more obviously on citing Bill Clinton's achievements as her own. (He sort of slyly noted the latter but it wasn't noted anywhere.)

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2308482]You may be right. That debate, for whatever reason, clearly did not help Edwards or Obama at all.

    My own take, in retrospect, was that Obama was playing not-to-lose. I think he should have defended his own record more forcefully and called her out more obviously on citing Bill Clinton's achievements as her own. (He sort of slyly noted the latter but it wasn't noted anywhere.)[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, you may be right. There will be more ups and downs as we go along...its a marathon, not a sprint. The talk about Hillary being toast prior to NH was a joke....

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2308586]Yeah, you may be right. There will be more ups and downs as we go along...its a marathon, not a sprint. The talk about Hillary being toast prior to NH was a joke....[/QUOTE]

    More than a joke it was the narrative of the MSM, particularly of clowns like Chris Matthews.

    I saw him on tv last night being his most condescending self talking to Dee Dee Meyers, who btw is not what I would call a hottie by any means, but there's something about her that makes me think she would be an excellent lay.

    But surely I digress...

    This was before the results came in, and they talked about the subject of the complaint that the MSM was in the tank for Obama, and Matthews said that was not the case, that it was really a case of the Clinton campaign not cultivating the press.

    Huh? I thought by saying that Matthews was conceding the MSM was less than fair to Hillary, but was merely spinning it that it was in response to not being treated nicely by her people rather than intrinsically loving Obama.

    Hey Chris, it doesn't matter what the reason is, if the charge is the MSM has been relatively too easy on Obama, complaining that it's really about the Clinton campaign not kissing your butt is not an answer.

    Anyway, I think the Clinton campaign made some headway with this charge. It fed into the perception of female voters that Hillary was being treated unfairly.

    You have to wonder how that will hold up, though, as Maureen Dowd's take on the whole thing is certainly one way to look at it all.
    Last edited by Big Blocker; 01-09-2008 at 03:48 PM.

  14. #14
    [IMG]http://www.harrywalker.com/photos/Myers_DeeDee.jpg[/IMG]

    Yep. I would definitely hit that.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2308586]The talk about Hillary being toast prior to NH was a joke....[/QUOTE]

    That was always wishful thinking (that I and others fell victim to, I'll admit). She was never going away quietly or quickly.

    Good news for Obama is that, if he managed to beat her in a long slog, he'll be a much tougher candidate in the general than he would have been had he just been coronated after two primaries.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2308627]Good news for Obama is that, if he managed to beat her in a long slog, he'll be a much tougher candidate in the general than he would have been had he just been coronated after two primaries.[/QUOTE]

    Gee, that's exactly what my girl Dee Dee said to Matthews, too.

    It also happens to be true, and needless to say Matthews had no answer for it.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=angry jets fan;2308329]no ... the fake crying (play the victim/gender card) worked and was enough to beat Obama.[/QUOTE]


    C3PO showed more emotion in the first Star Wars

  18. #18
    Wouldn't Romney have won if it was that easy to register?

  19. #19
    yeah i can't buy hammer's theory because something like is just too hard to keep a secret.

  20. #20
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    I don't buy it either. And if that really is the rule, she's smart to use it, not slick or sneaky.

    She's a more formidable retail politician than I think conservatives or liberals want to admit. We both don't like her for various reasons, but I've said all along that she's good at this game. Conservatives are supposedly licking their chops at the prospect of Hillary being the nominee, but I'll stick to what I've said all along...I think she wins the whole thing and that its not really even that close.

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