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Thread: I don't know the solution, however...

  1. #1
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    I don't know the solution, however...

    ...one is needed. This article paints an accurate and bleak picture.

    [url]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/staticarticles/article59693.html[/url]



    Subprime Nation



    Since it began to give credit ratings to nations in 1917, Moody's has rated the United States triple-A. U.S. Treasury bonds have been seen as the most secure investment on earth. When crises erupt, nervous money seeks out the world's great safe harbor, the United States. That reputation is now in peril.

    Last week, Moody's warned that if the United States fails to rein in the soaring cost of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, the nation's credit rating will be down-graded within a decade.

    Our political parties seem oblivious. Republicans, save Ron Paul, are all promising to expand the U.S. military and maintain all of our worldwide commitments to defend and subsidize scores of nations.

    Democrats, with entitlement costs drowning the federal budget in red ink, are proposing a new entitlement universal health coverage for the near 50 million who do not have it another magnet for illegal aliens. Moody's is telling America it needs a time of austerity, while the U.S. government is behaving like the governments we used to bail out.


    California has already hit the wall. With an economy as large as a G-8 nation, the Golden State is looking at a $14 billion deficit in 2009 and a $3 billion shortfall in 2008. Gov. Schwarzenegger has called for slashing prison staff by 6,000, including 2,000 guards, early release of 22,000 inmates, closing four dozen state parks and a 10 percent across-the-board cut in all state agencies. The Democratic legislature is demanding tax hikes, which would drive more taxpayers back over the mountains whence their fathers came.

    Meanwhile, Washington drifts mindlessly toward the maelstrom. With the dollar sinking, oil surging to $100 a barrel, the Dow having its worst January in memory, foreclosures mounting, credit card debt going rotten, and consumers and businesses unable or unwilling to borrow, we appear headed into recession.

    If so, tax revenue will fall and spending on unemployment will surge. The price of the stimulus packages both parties are preparing will further add to the deficit and further imperil the U.S. credit rating. This all comes in the year that the first of the baby boomers, born in 1946, reach early retirement and eligibility for Social Security.

    To stave off recession, the Fed appears anxious to slash interest rates another half-point, if not more. That will further weaken the dollar and raise the costs of the imports to which we have become addicted. While all this is bad news for the Republicans, it is worse news for the republic. As we save nothing, we must borrow both to pay for the imported oil and foreign manufactures upon which we have become dependent.

    We are thus in the position of having to borrow from Europe to defend Europe, of having to borrow from China and Japan to defend Chinese and Japanese access to Gulf oil, and of having to borrow from Arab emirs, sultans and monarchs to make Iraq safe for democracy.

    We borrow from the nations we defend so that we may continue to defend them. To question this is an unpardonable heresy called "isolationism."

    And the chickens of globalism are coming home to roost.

    We let Europe to get away with imposing value-added taxes averaging 15 percent on our exports to them, while they rebate that value-added tax on their exports to us. Thus, the euro has almost doubled in value against the dollar in the Bush years, as NATO Europe begins to bail out on Iraq and Afghanistan.

    We sat still as Japan protected her markets and dumped high quality goods into ours and China undervalued its currency to suck jobs, technology and factories out of the United States. Now, China and Japan have $2 trillion in cash reserves. The Arabs have an equal amount of petrodollars. Both are headed here to spend their depreciating dollars snapping up U.S. assets banks, ports, highways, defense contractors.

    America, to pay her bills, has begun to sell herself to the world.

    Its balance sheet gutted by the subprime mortgage crisis, Citicorp got a $7.5 billion injection from Abu Dhabi and is now fishing for $1 billion from Kuwait and $9 billion from China. Beijing has put $5 billion into Morgan Stanley and bought heavily into Barclays Bank.

    Merrill-Lynch, ravaged by subprime mortgage losses, sold part of itself to Singapore for $7.5 billion and is seeking another $3 billion to $4 billion from the Arabs. Swiss-based UBS, taking a near $15 billion write-down in subprime mortgages, has gotten an infusion of $10 billion from Singapore.

    Bain Capital is partnering with China's Huawei Technologies in a buyout of 3Com, the U.S. company that provides the technology that protects Pentagon computers from Chinese hackers.

    This self-indulgent generation has borrowed itself into unpayable debt. Now the folks from whom we borrowed to buy all that oil and all those cars, electronics and clothes are coming to buy the country we inherited. We are prodigal sons, and the day of reckoning approaches.

  2. #2
    flushingjet
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    i was just saying to myself,
    pat buchanan, thats the 1st guy I turn to for an
    accurate picture of anything

    lets hope he's on the florida ballot again, anyway

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2318211]i was just saying to myself,
    pat buchanan, thats the 1st guy I turn to for an
    accurate picture of anything

    lets hope he's on the florida ballot again, anyway[/QUOTE]

    sarcasm?...I'm not sure, anyway his facts are correct

  4. #4
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    this is the article by Pat Buchanan? I read it earlier... and I agree it is a very good summary


    although it did leave out the key part which mentions the beginnings of the sub-prime business, which stems directly from Reagan's de-regulation of the banking business (yet another failure of Reagan and his policies)

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    What a truly depressing read...

  6. #6
    flushingjet
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    [quote=jetswin;2318215]sarcasm?...I'm not sure, anyway his facts are correct[/quote]


    yup, just chock full of Rupaulian-type "facts"

    more like Paleo-Con protectionist scare tactics

    Is UBS an American company? If not, who cares?

    What about all the foreign companies, banks and financial institutions
    controlled by American firms?

    If Merrill Lynch etc poorly manage their speculations, i mean
    investments to the extent of borrowing from foreigners
    how does that affect the average american? the prime rate?

    more importantly, will their brokers get smaller christmas bonuses?

    What % of mortgages are paid on time?

    Were the Subprime mortgagees all high FICO scorers in '05, '06, etc?

    Consumers and businesses unwilling and unable to borrow?
    Really?

    What % of America is foreign owned, and what % is Arab etc.
    Anyone? Bueller?

    3Com prevents Pentagon computers from hackers? No kidding!

    if foreign anyone/anything owns US debt, does that mean
    they "own" America?

    What exports from Europe, that are so increasingly costly are we being inexorably drawn to with a higher valued Euro?
    Yugos & Fiats trimmed in Burberry fur?

    Some of the points are valid, sure.

    but the demise of the US as a nation-state is premature
    *chuckle*

    And although subprime lending is by definition riskier,
    HUD/FHA (the gub'mint) mandates it and insures it
    Supposedly this is operated fronm mortgage insurance

    Unqualified/less qualified buyers stay in a market
    which stays uncorrected longer with this propping up

    And yes, we can blame ronald reagan for subprime
    loans growing from $35 billion in 1994 to
    $140 billion in 2000 to 20% of '06 mortgages
    before clinton they were as rare as hen's teeth

    well, maybe it is a good idea to force us all to pay for the
    consequences of borrowers who earned their poor credit
    thatll teach us!

    teach us to pass the community reinvestment act
    in 1977
    when reagan was president
    you're kidding
    reagan wasnt president in 1977?
    Last edited by flushingjet; 01-15-2008 at 06:16 PM.

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2318276].....

    more like Paleo-Con protectionist scare tactics

    Is UBS an American company? If not, who cares?.....

    [/QUOTE]

    I didn't quote your entire monolog, but I would hardly call the article scare tactics. Wether or not UBS is wholly owned by the Swiss is irrelevant to the fact that it employs a huge amount of Americans, in high paying jobs, that drive the economy. Those "Christmas bonus" boys are the ones getting mortgages that are not subprime. The subprime situation is real and could have long term effects to many industries outside of Wall Street.

    I'm guessing your old enough to remember when the Japanese purchased a large share of Rockefeller Center. People were upset, and the fact that a Merrill Lynch or a Citibank (Salomon Bros) is being gobbled up by foreigners during a crisis is upsetting now.

    The falling dollar is only going to exasperate these problems. As I said earlier, I don't have the solution however to believe one is not needed is naive.

  8. #8
    flushingjet
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    [quote=jetswin;2319080]I didn't quote your entire monolog, but I would hardly call the article scare tactics. Wether or not UBS is wholly owned by the Swiss is irrelevant to the fact that it employs a huge amount of Americans, in high paying jobs, that drive the economy. Those "Christmas bonus" boys are the ones getting mortgages that are not subprime. The subprime situation is real and could have long term effects to many industries outside of Wall Street.

    I'm guessing your old enough to remember when the Japanese purchased a large share of Rockefeller Center. People were upset, and the fact that a Merrill Lynch or a Citibank (Salomon Bros) is being gobbled up by foreigners during a crisis is upsetting now.

    The falling dollar is only going to exasperate these problems. As I said earlier, I don't have the solution however to believe one is not needed is naive.[/quote]

    ?


    you must have confused me with a lower earning rupaul-ite

    you can keep trying, but i dont easily muster sympathy for
    goldman sachs, merrill lynch, or any number of banks brokerages
    or financial firms, foreign or domestic, no matter
    how many they employ anywhere when they suffer due to:

    1) driving up prices
    of oil etc from speculative moves designed to benefit
    noone but their own firms

    2) when they lose on dumb investments/bets fueled by their greed

    my take:
    let them go bust, someone will pick up the pieces

    i could care less who steps in besides the us taxpayer

    the only solution pat buchanan could ever give is final, ja?

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2319257]
    1) driving up prices
    of oil etc from speculative moves designed to benefit
    noone but their own firms

    2) when they lose on dumb investments/bets fueled by their greed

    [/QUOTE]

    those two statements are true, and I'm not sure I agree with bailouts...the point of the article is the pain is not over

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2319257]?


    you must have confused me with a lower earning rupaul-ite

    you can keep trying, but i dont easily muster sympathy for
    goldman sachs, merrill lynch, or any number of banks brokerages
    or financial firms, foreign or domestic, no matter
    how many they employ anywhere when they suffer due to:

    1) driving up prices
    of oil etc from speculative moves designed to benefit
    noone but their own firms

    2) when they lose on dumb investments/bets fueled by their greed

    my take:
    let them go bust, someone will pick up the pieces

    i could care less who steps in besides the us taxpayer

    the only solution pat buchanan could ever give is final, ja?[/QUOTE]
    That's my problem as well. These guys made poor business decisions repeatedly in the interest of now, but when the predictable futere comes calling for payout, the taxpayers have to contribute to bailing them out.

    F them. I'm not an economist, but even I knew we were headed for trouble as much as 5 years ago just by watching my brother -in-law(mortgage banker) operate.

    I know you don't like Ron Paul, but this is the one issue of his which I do agree. I'm not interested in leaving the country worse off for my children then it was for me, simply due to our "get it now and pay later" national mindset.

    Maybe it's related to me being a fed up saver, something that definitely isn't valued in this country. I've watched my savings get eaten alive by the inflation and know that if I manage to continue saving, I'll only earn the luxury of forfeiting my SS and medical benefits later on.

    the real shame of the system to me is that people who do the smart thing are continually penalized now and later while those who are foolish and impulsive are rewarded now and later. Case in point, my grandfather was sick and in the hospital for a long time. He had Medcaid/medicare plus AARP to pay the bills, but there's a policy that after so many weeks you have to start paying yourself if you have the means. My grandfather was never a big earner, but was always a saver and had a fairly significant amount saved even at his advanced age of 88. The guy in the next bed had no savings, even though was employed in a profession that he likely earned much more then my grandfather. But no savings = no worries. The government continues to pay. Essentially my grandfather had sacrificed material possessions, vacations etc his whole life only to earn the right to pay for his own treatment later, while the guy next store earned more and likely spent it on those same things that my grandfather forfeited early in life.

    The net result is that my grandfather wanted to die (he starved himself to death essentially) rather then see his life savings go up in smoke, his wife left destitute and living ss payment to ss payment, and his children benefit 0 from a life time of hard work and sacrifice.

    Sorry for the diatribe, but I'm so bitter and sick of people who don't understand the concept of sacrifice and it becomes "societies problem" to pick them up when they fall down.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=CTM;2320120]That's my problem as well. These guys made poor business decisions repeatedly in the interest of now, but when the predictable futere comes calling for payout, the taxpayers have to contribute to bailing them out.

    F them. I'm not an economist, but even I knew we were headed for trouble as much as 5 years ago just by watching my brother -in-law(mortgage banker) operate.

    I know you don't like Ron Paul, but this is the one issue of his which I do agree. I'm not interested in leaving the country worse off for my children then it was for me, simply due to our "get it now and pay later" national mindset.

    Maybe it's related to me being a fed up saver, something that definitely isn't valued in this country. I've watched my savings get eaten alive by the inflation and know that if I manage to continue saving, I'll only earn the luxury of forfeiting my SS and medical benefits later on.

    the real shame of the system to me is that people who do the smart thing are continually penalized now and later while those who are foolish and impulsive are rewarded now and later. Case in point, my grandfather was sick and in the hospital for a long time. He had Medcaid/medicare plus AARP to pay the bills, but there's a policy that after so many weeks you have to start paying yourself if you have the means. My grandfather was never a big earner, but was always a saver and had a fairly significant amount saved even at his advanced age of 88. The guy in the next bed had no savings, even though was employed in a profession that he likely earned much more then my grandfather. But no savings = no worries. The government continues to pay. Essentially my grandfather had sacrificed material possessions, vacations etc his whole life only to earn the right to pay for his own treatment later, while the guy next store earned more and likely spent it on those same things that my grandfather forfeited early in life.

    The net result is that my grandfather wanted to die (he starved himself to death essentially) rather then see his life savings go up in smoke, his wife left destitute and living ss payment to ss payment, and his children benefit 0 from a life time of hard work and sacrifice.

    Sorry for the diatribe, but I'm so bitter and sick of people who don't understand the concept of sacrifice and it becomes "societies problem" to pick them up when they fall down.[/QUOTE]

    great post ctn. I wish more folks had you're grandad's minset thru life. may he rip

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