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Thread: Welfare

  1. #1
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    Welfare

    The problem I see with welfare is:
    1) It takes away ones incentive to work.
    2) It slowly degrades the persons ambition
    3) It makes the person totally dependent on Goverment to sustain their way of life.

    Basically it is like a bottle of firewater to the Native Americans!

  2. #2
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    It's horrible unless you need it.

    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2404987]The problem I see with welfare is:
    1) It takes away ones incentive to work.
    2) It slowly degrades the persons ambition
    3) It makes the person totally dependent on Goverment to sustain their way of life.

    Basically it is like a bottle of firewater to the Native Americans![/QUOTE]

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=cr726;2405019]It's horrible unless you need it.[/QUOTE]
    As a stepping stone or a lifestyle? "It's for the children"and there children and there children.

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=cr726;2405019]It's horrible unless you need it.[/QUOTE]

    Correct.

    Of course, one should never need it if they believe in hard work and personal responsabillity. But that ship has sailed in our country, and our culture.

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2404987]The problem I see with welfare is:
    1) It takes away ones incentive to work.
    2) It slowly degrades the persons ambition
    3) It makes the person totally dependent on Goverment to sustain their way of life.

    Basically it is like a bottle of firewater to the Native Americans![/QUOTE]

    You do know that welfare was significantly overhauled in 1996, yes? The Republican congress wrote a bill and Bill Clinton signed it.

    It addressed a lot of the stuff you're concerned about. You should look it up.

  6. #6
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    How come there are generations of people on it. Look it up!

  7. #7
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    Nobody can argue against that, just as you can not argue that there are people who have used it for what was intended. As a temporary program.

    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2405413]How come there are generations of people on it. Look it up![/QUOTE]

  8. #8
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    At what point are we going to have to stop mortgaging our future to pay for today?

    Once this happens, we will either have to make some heartless decisions involving seniors, health care, the poor and our massive prison population - OR - we can always move closer to socialism and tax out the wazoo (which will eventually lead to our destruction anyway)

    Lets face it, our society is crumbling on top of itself with selfishness, greed and gluttony. We are in the twilight of our time as a world power and as a father, I fear for my children's future..

  9. #9
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    People that have the physical or mental INABILITY to work should receive welfare. If one has the ability to work, receiving welfare does you no favors. Ok, maybe you have to work two jobs and can't afford cable TV and a cell phone, but that's life. There's a ton of poor in the third world that would kill to be poor here.

    That being said, the welfare portion of the budget is so small that it's a low priority for me. We have much bigger fish to fry in the spending bucket before I'd worry about welfare.

  10. #10
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    If I didn't have to pay SS and welfare taxes I wouldn't need SS and welfare in my later years. On the other hand if I couldn't afford to pay SS and welfare taxes I probably would need it to survive.

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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2406066]If I didn't have to pay SS and welfare taxes I wouldn't need SS and welfare in my later years. On the other hand if I couldn't afford to pay SS and welfare taxes I probably would need it to survive.[/QUOTE]

    Seriously, if everyone took their 10-15% payroll taxes and invested them in low cost, diversified mutual funds of stocks and bonds, most of us would be in great shape to retire at a reasonable age.

    Here's yet another countless example of how the government "knows better than us" and does a worse job than we do for ourselves.

  12. #12
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    The HR person at Enron thought the same thing.

    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2406074]Seriously, if everyone took their 10-15% payroll taxes and invested them in low cost, diversified mutual funds of stocks and bonds, most of us would be in great shape to retire at a reasonable age.

    Here's yet another countless example of how the government "knows better than us" and does a worse job than we do for ourselves.[/QUOTE]

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    I don't like taxes either...but I'm glad welfare keeps people dependant and poor and confined to the inner cities where all the Section 8 housing is...otherwise they would be seeping out of the city and into suburbs...my suburbs...:rolleyes:
    Last edited by PlumberKhan; 03-03-2008 at 08:39 AM.

  14. #14
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    And to make things worse "they" could be black or hispanic.

    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2406079]Sounds like someone needs a better broker...

    I don't like taxes either...but I'm glad welfare keeps people dependant and poor and confined to the inner cities where all the Section 8 housing is...otherwise they would be seeping out of the city and into suburbs...my suburbs...:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

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    i know where this is going, but............

    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2404987]The problem I see with welfare is:
    1) It takes away ones incentive to work.
    2) It slowly degrades the persons ambition
    3) It makes the person totally dependent on Goverment to sustain their way of life.

    Basically it is like a bottle of firewater to the Native Americans![/QUOTE]

    1st, this is not the kind of forum for that type of debate.......
    2nd, you have to define what welfare is. when you give large tax refunds to corps that havent paid taxes in years, thats welfare....
    when you bale out companies for years of wrong or stupid business pratices, thats welfare.....
    we seem to want to overlook certain types of welfare, in amercia and not frown on all welfare. we want to give to the well to do and upper crust people who dont need it, but the ones that do we ***** and complain if they are given any thing free, which is mere crumbs in my book. i work in the banking sector and we were instructed to allow the well to do to boucne checks and do what ever and not charge them. while some little old lady on a pension and barely making it from one month to another spending all her money on her medicine no quarter. (im sorry i dont play that, i gave her all her fees back) this boy king you call him, is operating a welfare administration, his riegn is basically an affrimative action program for his friends. personally i dont see the problem with it if you need it and in my opinion if only whites in this country was getting welfare you wouldnt hear a peep out of you all.....................im going to sleep now, im sure ill be blown up by the time i get up.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2406074]Seriously, if everyone took their 10-15% payroll taxes and invested them in low cost, diversified mutual funds of stocks and bonds, most of us would be in great shape to retire at a reasonable age.

    Here's yet another countless example of how the government "knows better than us" and does a worse job than we do for ourselves.[/QUOTE]

    The only way everyone would do this is if it was mandatory which is why it is. Free choice in what we do will always create winers and losers. Binding ourselves through citizenship and democracy also requires giving up something for our country to live by a rule of law which allows us to win and lose. We have a welfare state through a fair process of debate and democracy. I suspect as the economy falters the pressure to increase that welfare State will go up and as it rises it will go down.

    The best way to eliminate the welfare state is to create an economic and social environment that increases the chance for more winers in our society. Better education, better health, better parenting, less unwaranted regulation, more value in risk taking, all would help reduce welfare as we currently support it.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2406074]Seriously, if everyone took their 10-15% payroll taxes and invested them in low cost, diversified mutual funds of stocks and bonds, most of us would be in great shape to retire at a reasonable age.

    Here's yet another countless example of how the government "knows better than us" and does a worse job than we do for ourselves.[/QUOTE]

    It also serves as a redistribution system, as low earners get back a much larger % then higher earners..

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=cr726;2406077]The HR person at Enron thought the same thing.[/QUOTE]

    You used the most extreme example possible to prove your point. Enron was obviously a case of fraud and everyone who participated should be put away for LIFE as far as Iím concerned. They ruined thousands of lives. However, people should not have a solid portion of their 401Ks in their company stock. Itís a double whammy when you lose your job and your retirement funds at the same time. I would feel uncomfortable with even 10% of my portfolio in a company stock Ė single stocks are just way too volatile. In the short term, they could fluctuate. In the long-term, they could go under.

    That doesnít change the fact that the government engages in fraud, albeit on a more gradual level. They take our earnings and instead of growing them for the long-term, they invest them in extremely conservative bonds and use the surplus to pay for their pork. They are literally robbing the future to pay for the present. Iím not even going to get into how the government reports its financial statements. Letís just say theyíd be real close to Enron with all of the cooking the books that they do. But hey, Iíd expect nothing more from them.

  19. #19
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    I agree it is an extreme example, but sadly a true one. Shouldn't you want your employees to believe in their place of employment and invest in it?

    The gov't does what it wants and it isn't getting any better since the gov't has been taking on the big business mentality. That mentality has spread to more than just the books.


    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2406315]You used the most extreme example possible to prove your point. Enron was obviously a case of fraud and everyone who participated should be put away for LIFE as far as Iím concerned. They ruined thousands of lives. However, people should not have a solid portion of their 401Ks in their company stock. Itís a double whammy when you lose your job and your retirement funds at the same time. I would feel uncomfortable with even 10% of my portfolio in a company stock Ė single stocks are just way too volatile. In the short term, they could fluctuate. In the long-term, they could go under.

    That doesnít change the fact that the government engages in fraud, albeit on a more gradual level. They take our earnings and instead of growing them for the long-term, they invest them in extremely conservative bonds and use the surplus to pay for their pork. They are literally robbing the future to pay for the present. Iím not even going to get into how the government reports its financial statements. Letís just say theyíd be real close to Enron with all of the cooking the books that they do. But hey, Iíd expect nothing more from them.[/QUOTE]

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=cr726;2408066]I agree it is an extreme example, but sadly a true one. Shouldn't you want your employees to believe in their place of employment and invest in it?

    The gov't does what it wants and it isn't getting any better since the gov't has been taking on the big business mentality. That mentality has spread to more than just the books.[/QUOTE]

    Investing in it is foolishly risky, even if the company doesnít go under. Individual stocks are volatile. But I digress.

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