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Thread: Question About Democratic Delegate Counts

  1. #1
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    Question About Democratic Delegate Counts

    Do the up to date counts exclude the delegates from Michigan and Florida? If so this can get even uglier for the Dems. Don't see how the DNC can justify disenfranchising these two states especially if it can make the difference in this tight race. Especially after the cries about "counting every vote" in Florida in 2000. Guess I'll just sit back, have some popcorn, and watch the catfight.

  2. #2
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    [QUOTE=HDCentStOhio;2413077]Do the up to date counts exclude the delegates from Michigan and Florida? If so this can get even uglier for the Dems. Don't see how the DNC can justify disenfranchising these two states especially if it can make the difference in this tight race. Especially after the cries about "counting every vote" in Florida in 2000. Guess I'll just sit back, have some popcorn, and watch the catfight.[/QUOTE]

    They screwed up, and Hillary is shameless in the way she is trying to capitalize. She agreed they wouldn't count before she won them, now she wants them counted..

    Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan and didn't stump in Florida.

    Sounds like they are considering a re vote..

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=CTM;2413090]
    Sounds like they are considering a re vote..[/QUOTE]

    They should.

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    I have mixed feelings about this. The states knew when they insisted in moving up their primaries that the delegates would not count yet did it anyway. Now that it is a close race they want to reneg.

    On the other hand, the individual voters are not the ones that made this decision so is it fair that their vote does not count?

    They certainly can't count the delegates as is. They must re-vote or hold caucuses. Funnily enough the FL Gov has said he is willing to pay for it...probably because he would love the see this prolonged on the Dem side and may even be McCain's choice for VP.

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    So the "official" counts do not include Florida and Michigan? Meaning if they were counted based upon the early primary results, the race would be even closer?

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=Company_Man;2413097]They should.[/QUOTE]

    You are probably right, if Clinton wins PA.

    If Obama wins Pennsylvania, there's no need for a revote, and they can just sit the delegations based on the earlier vote counts without impacting the result. If Clinton wins (and the polls show her with a lead of 7-8 points at the moment), then they will have to find a way to let those voters weigh in, I think.

    But Obama can end this by winning PA. He needs to go all out and drive a stake through the heart of the vampire. Otherwise she'll just keep coming back.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=HDCentStOhio;2413146]So the "official" counts do not include Florida and Michigan? Meaning if they were counted based upon the early primary results, the race would be even closer?[/QUOTE]

    Obama still leads even with them included, but, yes, it would be somewhat closer because e wasn't on the ballot in Michigan and, as such, got no delegates there. The Florida delegates were only narrowly for Clinton, if memory serves.

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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2413217]You are probably right, if Clinton wins PA.

    If Obama wins Pennsylvania, there's no need for a revote, and they can just sit the delegations based on the earlier vote counts without impacting the result. If Clinton wins (and the polls show her with a lead of 7-8 points at the moment), then they will have to find a way to let those voters weigh in, I think.

    [B]But Obama can end this by winning PA. He needs to go all out and drive a stake through the heart of the vampire. Otherwise she'll just keep coming back[/B].[/QUOTE]

    word. Does he go against his different kind of politician stuff and start punching back?

    I'd love to see him call her out more on her "experience"

  9. #9
    Yet another sign of a Broken System....

    ....the States who consciously broke the rules will wind up being the most powerful and influential states in the process.

    It's an embarassment.

  10. #10
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    Florida Democratic presidential primary, 2008[15]
    Candidate Votes Percentage National delegates
    Hillary Clinton 870,986 49.77% 0 [105]
    Barack Obama 576,214 32.93% 0 [67]
    John Edwards 251,562 14.38% 0 [13]
    Joe Biden 15,704 0.90% 0
    Bill Richardson 14,999 0.86% 0
    Dennis Kucinich 9,703 0.55% 0
    Christopher Dodd 5,477 0.31% 0
    Mike Gravel 5,275 0.30% 0
    Totals 1,749,920 100.00% 0 [185]

    Found this on Wikipedia- I assume the number in the brackets are the delegates that would have been won had the primary counted.

  11. #11
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    Michigan Democratic presidential primary, 2008[16]
    Candidate Votes Percentage National delegates
    Hillary Clinton 328,309 55.23% 0 [73]
    Dennis Kucinich 21,715 3.65% 0
    Christopher Dodd 3,845 0.65% 0
    Mike Gravel 2,361 0.40% 0
    Uncommitted 238,168 40.07% 0 [55]
    Totals 594,398 100.00% 0 [128]


    Here is Michigan.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=HDCentStOhio;2413235]Florida Democratic presidential primary, 2008[15]
    Candidate Votes Percentage National delegates
    Hillary Clinton 870,986 49.77% 0 [105]
    Barack Obama 576,214 32.93% 0 [67]
    John Edwards 251,562 14.38% 0 [13]
    Joe Biden 15,704 0.90% 0
    Bill Richardson 14,999 0.86% 0
    Dennis Kucinich 9,703 0.55% 0
    Christopher Dodd 5,477 0.31% 0
    Mike Gravel 5,275 0.30% 0
    Totals 1,749,920 100.00% 0 [185]

    Found this on Wikipedia- I assume the number in the brackets are the delegates that would have been won had the primary counted.[/QUOTE]
    Big problem with that is that Obama didn't campaign there..

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=CTM;2413222]word. Does he go against his different kind of politician stuff and start punching back?

    I'd love to see him call her out more on her "experience"[/QUOTE]

    He needs to find an "Obama way" to hit back. He can't suddenly morph into some sort of fang-bearing Hillary clone. It's not credible.

    But he can --and should-- put her on the defensive about her claim that she is somehow super tested. Her "35 years of experience" does not hold up to scrutiny, and she should be forced to defend it and explain it. It would probably lead to a few news cycles devoted to the idea of "first lady experience" and what it's really worth. (George Mitchell has already questioned her claim that she was somehow crucial to peace in Northern Ireland.)

    This is a woman who says her greatest trial was her husband's adultery. She's not exactly Thatcher.

    It's a dumb case in the general anyhow, because if you reduce the race to experience, the old guy wins.

  14. #14
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    The entire country is going to end up disenfranchised in the Democratic Primary when the entire thing will be in the hands of the so-called "super-delegates."

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    [QUOTE=CTM;2413246]Big problem with that is that Obama didn't campaign there..[/QUOTE]

    Neither did Hillary but the point is that had both campaigned there the outcome might have been very different.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2413251]He needs to find an "Obama way" to hit back. He can't suddenly morph into some sort of fang-bearing Hillary clone. It's not credible.
    [/quote]
    Agreed. But what is it? A sustained backhanded attack about how her tactics are divisive and old school?

    [quote]

    But he can --and should-- put her on the defensive about her claim that she is somehow super tested. Her "35 years of experience" does not hold up to scrutiny, and she should be forced to defend it and explain it. It would probably lead to a few news cycles devoted to the idea of "first lady experience" and what it's really worth. (George Mitchell has already questioned her claim that she was somehow crucial to peace in Northern Ireland.)

    This is a woman who says her greatest trial was her husband's adultery. She's not exactly Thatcher.

    It's a dumb case in the general anyhow, because if you reduce the race to experience, the old guy wins.[/QUOTE]
    Agreed on both counts. Experience is going to play a lot better with McCain, I think part of the reason it hasn't worked is because people intuitively know that Hillary isn't much more experienced then Obama at all..

    But I don't know how you stem the tide when that stupid phone call at 3am ad seemed to hit the mark in Tx?

  17. #17
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    Just looking at the numbers, it would seem that neither Dem will have enough votes for the nomination prior to the convention, Fla/Mich withstanding, and unless either candidate starts winning 65/35 or more, both should go into the convention with a chance to win. I would think that Hillary would have the advantage wheeling and dealing with the delegates if the delegate count is close.

  18. #18
    It will be quite a accomplishment if your guy Obama wins PA. Fast Eddie Rendell will have the PA machine working overtime for Hillary (plus all the old angry democrats that live in PA will be out voting in force for Hillary)

    [quote=nuu faaola;2413220]Obama still leads even with them included, but, yes, it would be somewhat closer because e wasn't on the ballot in Michigan and, as such, got no delegates there. The Florida delegates were only narrowly for Clinton, if memory serves.[/quote]

  19. #19
    don't underestimate the black base in Philadelphia, obama will win PA

    and it won't be my helping, I'm registered independant.

    ***

    as for the FLA and MI issue, if there is a re-do who will pay for it? State's governors have already said they can't find the funding, it would have to be the DNC (run by Howard dean) who foots the bill.

    Long story short Hillary is not in good shape. She's waging a desperate scorched earth campaign and the math is not in her favor.

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