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Thread: Obama, Wright and MLK

  1. #1
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    Obama, Wright and MLK

    Something I was thinking about while at work today and I wanted to bounce this off the board. This growing issue that Obama is having with the company he keeps (his pastor) is disturbing to me to say the least. With that said I am having a hard time understanding something about this situation.

    I am of the understating that Dr. Marting Luther King was an advocate of change, yet was also an advocate of peace, love, understanding, acceptance and was most definitely ANTI-HATE.

    What I am dumfounded about is how not only does Jermemiah Wright and Barack Obama speak in a manner as if they are the second coming of Mr. King but Obama uses bits and peaces of his speeches all the time. So if they truly want to emulate Dr. Kings ideologies and beliefs; why is their church teaching hatred, hostility, divisiveness and absolute racist propaganda?

    What I am asking is this: Is this message of hate an absolute slap in the face of Dr. King and all that he worked for? I cant help but wonder in my mind how everytime I hear Obama speaking in much of the same tones as the great Dr. King; I ask myself how Mr. Obama can listen for 20 years to his Pastor's message but then act like he is the next Dr. King? Isnt it somewhat hypocritical and completely opposite of what Dr. King preached?

    I dont know, not trying to stir things up but I am just sick and tired of people getting a pass when others are ridiculed and in my eyes, hes getting a pass.

  2. #2
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    I just thought of something else after having written my original post. It deals with the thought of the hate and hostility being preached in some African American churches and even some white churches.

    Wasnt Jesus an advocate of love, acceptance, compassion and mercy? Wasnt it Jesus who taught us to love one another and was always showing mercy on people?

  3. #3
    The irony is that Obama has done everything to present himself as a successor to MLK circa 2008, and I don't mean to emulate MLK, I mean to fullfill his vision ... and now we findout his pastor comes in the spirit of Malcolm X, he calls himself a Christian but his social message is distinctly Malcolm X, which is why he can find an alliance with Louis Farakaan and the Nation of Islam, their theology differs but their social and cultural views are virtually identical

    That's what makes this so strange, Obama has done everything to seperate himself from the militant wing of Afro-centric politics and to present himself as the fullfillment of MLK's vision, an America where a man is judged by the content of his character, the ultimate fullfillment if you will by seeking the highest office in the land

    Yet his pastor is the spirtual kin of Malcolm X, MLK's polar opposite ... even stole some of Malcolm's rethoric about the chickens coming home to roost
    Last edited by Green Jets & Ham; 03-14-2008 at 10:57 PM.

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=JYtheJETSfan;2433251]I just thought of something else after having written my original post. It deals with the thought of the hate and hostility being preached in some African American churches and even some white churches.

    Wasnt Jesus an advocate of love, acceptance, compassion and mercy? Wasnt it Jesus who taught us to love one another and was always showing mercy on people?[/QUOTE]

    Very good posts and questions. As an obvious supporter of Obama I will tell you that he should have been smarter with this poison tongued preacher. But the question should be do you think that Obama is a racist because his preacher is? My point is this; are we guilty by association? Haven't we all been in circles of people who were racist and said things that would be offensive to many? I love my family very much but there were some holidays and other days where, during these times, there would be race-filled
    conversations. Should I be held responsible because I sat through them and disagreed with what they were saying yet still love them? I can only tell you that I loved the sinners but hated the sins.

    This is a sad turn of events because I do not believe Obama is racist. But he should have been smarter in being proactive and dealing with this situation.

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2433522]Very good posts and questions. As an obvious supporter of Obama I will tell you that he should have been smarter with this poison tongued preacher. But the question should be do you think that Obama is a racist because his preacher is? My point is this; are we guilty by association? Haven't we all been in circles of people who were racist and said things that would be offensive to many? I love my family very much but there were some holidays and other days where, during these times, there would be race-filled
    conversations. Should I be held responsible because I sat through them and disagreed with what they were saying yet still love them? I can only tell you that I loved the sinners but hated the sins.

    This is a sad turn of events because I do not believe Obama is racist. But he should have been smarter in being proactive and dealing with this situation.[/QUOTE]

    Well put.

    I also wonder --and, frankly, doubt-- whether these rants from Wright are typical of his ministry over 20 years, or rather the rantings of an older guy at the end of the road.

    Politico's Ben Smith had a letter on his blog the other day from an evangelical who'd seen Wright preach and was shocked by what he saw in the recent videos, which were not typical of the earlier message at all.

    Regardless, Obama should have distanced himself from this guy earlier --he was bounced from the campaign yesterday-- but I suspect this is more a perception problem for Obama than anything else, one he could have handled better. It's up to him to explain it in a way that's satisfactory to voters.

    The statement yesterday --and Wright's ouster-- was a start, but it will take more.

  6. #6
    The irony of all this is, Michelle and Barack Obama epitomized every thing that is good and decent about America, they were educated at the best schools, they were successful--- and yet they embraced this nut job and his racist ideology.

    The American people clearly showed they would vote for him, because they saw all of those good characteristics, and all along the Obama's were listening to this psycho say "he don't fit the profile--- he's not white, he's not rich blah blah blah Hillary don't know what it's like to have a cab drive past her blah blah blah" and contributing thousands of dollars to his ministry.

    You can't make this stuff up. This is so pathological on so many levels.

  7. #7
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    [IMG]http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/katalikai/judo_kede.jpg[/IMG]

    Ahhh...peace, love and understanding...

    A common theme amongst most churches...

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2433650]Well put.

    I also wonder --and, frankly, doubt-- whether these rants from Wright are typical of his ministry over 20 years, or rather the rantings of an older guy at the end of the road.

    Politico's Ben Smith had a letter on his blog the other day from an evangelical who'd seen Wright preach and was shocked by what he saw in the recent videos, which were not typical of the earlier message at all.

    Regardless, Obama should have distanced himself from this guy earlier --he was bounced from the campaign yesterday-- but I suspect this is more a perception problem for Obama than anything else, one he could have handled better. It's up to him to explain it in a way that's satisfactory to voters.

    The statement yesterday --and Wright's ouster-- was a start, but it will take more.[/QUOTE]


    I hope it is true that the older he got this became more of an issue, and not a normal thing over the past 20 years. I respect and admire Obama and hope that he is not sat through this racist propaganda for 20 years.

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Company_Man;2433659]The irony of all this is, Michelle and Barack Obama epitomized every thing that is good and decent about America, they were educated at the best schools, they were successful--- and yet they embraced this nut job and his racist ideology.

    The American people clearly showed they would vote for him, because they saw all of those good characteristics, and all along the Obama's were listening to this psycho say "he don't fit the profile--- he's not white, he's not rich blah blah blah Hillary don't know what it's like to have a cab drive past her blah blah blah" and contributing thousands of dollars to his ministry.

    You can't make this stuff up. This is so pathological on so many levels.[/QUOTE]

    Completely unfounded statement.

    How do you know what part of the ministry Obama embraced? You have no idea if these few rantings that have leaked out are typical of the chruch over 20 years, and you know 100% for certain that Obama --in more than a decade of holding elected office-- has never said anything remotely resembling the offensive comments.

    All he has said about them is that he disagrees with them, and his message and biography are exactly opposite of them.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2434072]Completely unfounded statement.

    How do you know what part of the ministry Obama embraced? You have no idea if these few rantings that have leaked out are typical of the chruch over 20 years, and you know 100% for certain that Obama --in more than a decade of holding elected office-- has never said anything remotely resembling the offensive comments.

    All he has said about them is that he disagrees with them, and his message and biography are exactly opposite of them.[/QUOTE]

    You are rationalizing racism.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=Company_Man;2434282]You are rationalizing racism.[/QUOTE]

    The statements made by his pastor are racist. The connection that by association Obama is also racist is not fair.

    Again, do we judge everyone based on all the people we ever shared a relationship with? If thats the case then we can all be considered hypocrites and racists.

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2434330]The statements made by his pastor are racist. The connection that by association Obama is also racist is not fair.

    Again, do we judge everyone based on all the people we ever shared a relationship with? If thats the case then we can all be considered hypocrites and racists.[/QUOTE]

    Are we to believe Barack and his family were not in that church on the Sunday after 9-11-01? If he was there, he is a liar because he said he's never been there when these "type of things" were said. And if he wasn't there, he wasn't aware of them? Ever? He subscribes to this racist filth. He's donated over 20 thousand dollars to this church.

    He's finished, and rightfully so. He's a two faced fraud.

  13. #13
    Wolf in sheep's clothing.

    In this case... Farakkan/Malcolm X beliefs using an MLK facade.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=Company_Man;2434337]Are we to believe Barack and his family were not in that church on the Sunday after 9-11-01? If he was there, he is a liar because he said he's never been there when these "type of things" were said. And if he wasn't there, he wasn't aware of them? Ever? He subscribes to this racist filth. He's donated over 20 thousand dollars to this church.

    [B]He's finished, and rightfully so. He's a two faced fraud[/B].[/QUOTE]

    I said this before and I'll make it clear again; Obama was 100% wrong for not being proactive and dealing with this sooner. But I do not believe he is racist, not for a second. Its pure ignorance to assume that Obama is a racist simply because his pastor is. If society held everyone to that type of 'guilt by association' standard, we would all be screwed. In the end, however, we are going to believe what we want.

    Here is something that you will not like to read, yet it is crystal clear; based on some of the contributions on this political forum, some posters are a reflection of exactly what they do not like about rev. wright. Some of the posts have had racist undertones to them. And some of them are not even subtle. Now we can spin this any way you like, and I promise to spin it right back with direct quotes from prior posts. A point can also be made that these posts are anti-American as well(if you understand what our country tries to stand for).

    This is what my point has been with some people that act righteous and sanctimonious on this issue. The reality is for some people that this sad incident only supplied a socially acceptable way to trash him for their own prejudice reasons. [B]If people have genuine issues with his political beliefs I can respect that. He is very liberal and does not boast a long resume. All of that is more then fair to criticize.[/B] [B]And there are many quality posters who critique Obama on issues.[/B] But for those whose posts have undertones of racism and smears they are no different then the filth that Rev. Wright spewed.
    Last edited by intelligentjetsfan; 03-16-2008 at 12:49 AM.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2434875]
    This is what my point has been with some people that act righteous and sanctimonious on this issue. The reality is for some people that this sad incident only supplied a socially acceptable way to trash him for their own prejudice reasons. [B]If people have genuine issues with his political beliefs I can respect that. He is very liberal and does not boast a long resume. All of that is more then fair to criticize.[/B] [B]And there are many quality posters who critique Obama on issues.[/B] But for those whose posts have undertones of racism and smears they are no different then the filth that Rev. Wright spewed.[/QUOTE]

    I think integration the learning and use of English and America as a melting pot has been extremely effective in making this country a great economic and moderate political entity.

    The support of diversity, multi lingual education, cultural, religious and racial separation is the right of every citizen, its fair game for someone seeking high public office.

    Obama has brilliantly run a campaign that emphasizes compromise and partisanship not issues.

    If the left wing of the Democratic party believed for a minute Obama was really going to compromise and run the office of the President as a moderate, none partisan they would never support him. If the center of this country really believed he was a far left politician who is against the melting pot and supports cultural and racial separation they would never support him.

    Is that the reason we have a campaign focused on hope and change rather than core beliefs? It's time to stop throwing around race as a weapon and get to the core beliefs of a politician with almost no real record. It's all fair game and a leader who wants to be President has an opportunity not to just denounce his pastor but to tell us what is objectionable and what he believes in. This isn't that complicated that I need to read "his" position paper on his web site. This is a conversation that a brilliant, well spoken, man who wants to lead this country can articulate.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2435017]I think integration the learning and use of English and America as a melting pot has been extremely effective in making this country a great economic and moderate political entity.

    The support of diversity, multi lingual education, cultural, religious and racial separation is the right of every citizen, its fair game for someone seeking high public office.

    Obama has brilliantly run a campaign that emphasizes compromise and partisanship not issues.

    If the left wing of the Democratic party believed for a minute Obama was really going to compromise and run the office of the President as a moderate, none partisan they would never support him. If the center of this country really believed he was a far left politician who is against the melting pot and supports cultural and racial separation they would never support him.

    Is that the reason we have a campaign focused on hope and change rather than core beliefs? It's time to stop throwing around race as a weapon and get to the core beliefs of a politician with almost no real record. [B]It's all fair game and a leader who wants to be President has an opportunity not to just denounce his pastor but to tell us what is objectionable and what he believes in. This isn't that complicated that I need to read "his" position paper on his web site. This is a conversation that a brilliant, well spoken, man who wants to lead this country can articulate.[/QUOTE][/B]

    Winston, we have not always agreed on every issue, but I always respect your points of view on the issues. [B] Excellent post[/B].

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=Company_Man;2434337]Are we to believe Barack and his family were not in that church on the Sunday after 9-11-01? If he was there, he is a liar because he said he's never been there when these "type of things" were said. And if he wasn't there, he wasn't aware of them? Ever? He subscribes to this racist filth. He's donated over 20 thousand dollars to this church.

    He's finished, and rightfully so. He's a two faced fraud.[/QUOTE]

    Wishful thinking on your part, as he's still the most likely next president of the United States.

    Again, you have no idea how frequently these kinds of statements were made, if they were even remotely typical. (As I posted above, people familiar with Wright's preaching say they were not typical. And evidence the guy has been something less than an America-hater his whole career can certainly be found in his enlistment in the marines, I think.)

    Second, you make a statement that is false in virtually every circumstance: You reduce a church to the cherry-picked words of its pastor. Churches and congregations are, first and foremost, a collection of people who attend them and work in the communities they serve.

    Barack Obama is no more a racist for associating with Jeremiah Wright than John McCain is for soliciting endorsements from folks like John Hagee and Rod Parlsey, which is to say, not at all.

    Is it questionable judgment not to distance oneself more? Sure. But its an optics issue, not an actual one. And its an issue I think Obama did a pretty good job of explaining in the papers this morning.

    But "not distancing" from a belief is not the same thing as sharing it. And there is not a single public statement or action in Obama's career --or McCain's-- that suggests he shares those divisive views.

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2433522]But the question should be do you think that Obama is a racist because his preacher is? My point is this; are we guilty by association?[/quote]

    All depends on the nature of the association.

    Someone you've known only a short time, had very infrequent contact with or in any way a "aquantance" type association, then no.

    But that is simply not the case here, Obama politically expedient after-the-fact denouncements nonwithstanding. This is a 20+ year relationship with a long line of documented associations and ties. This is no mere aquantence.

    Put simply, any Obama supporter needs to look inside their own heart, and see if they're as willing to fogive Obama's close ties and associations here, as they would be to, for example, forgive any close ties say President Bush and VP Cheney may have had in their lives with Oil Companies. We both know the left has beaten Bush and Co. to death over those associations, without proof of wrongdoing (just theories, most of whom fall into the conpiracy category).

    Fair is fair. But is politics, fairness and objectivity is a long lost belief.

    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2433522]I love my family very much but there were some holidays and other days where, during these times, there would be race-filled conversations.[/QUOTE]

    You cannot choose your family. You cannot truly sever that tie.

    An association is a very different animal.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2435296]All depends on the nature of the association.

    Someone you've known only a short time, had very infrequent contact with or in any way a "aquantance" type association, then no.

    But that is simply not the case here, Obama politically expedient after-the-fact denouncements nonwithstanding. This is a 20+ year relationship with a long line of documented associations and ties. This is no mere aquantence.

    Put simply, any Obama supporter needs to look inside their own heart, and see if they're as willing to fogive Obama's close ties and associations here, as they would be to, for example, forgive any close ties say President Bush and VP Cheney may have had in their lives with Oil Companies. We both know the left has beaten Bush and Co. to death over those associations, without proof of wrongdoing (just theories, most of whom fall into the conpiracy category).

    Fair is fair. But is politics, fairness and objectivity is a long lost belief.



    You cannot choose your family. You cannot truly sever that tie.

    An association is a very different animal.[/QUOTE]

    Warfish,

    A fair point.

    But what isn't known --and, in fact, evidence suggests the contrary-- is whether this rhetoric was typical of Jeremiah Wright over the whole time Obama knew him.

    People change over 20 years. Wright went from being a guy who signed up for the marines to the guy shouting "god damn america" on YouTube. Clearly, there was a transformation that took place. And the guy who married Obama and baptized his kids probably wasn't the same angry dude we see today in a few cherry picked pieces of footage.

    Obama's life is well documented through his own books --one of which published long before his political rise, as evidenced by the nonpolitical reference to his drug use-- and his time in the Illinois and U.S. Senate. That's along record of recorded statements and writings. There is simply not a single piece of evidence to suggest he's some sort of racist.

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2434875]
    Here is something that you will not like to read, yet it is crystal clear; based on some of the contributions on this political forum, some posters are a reflection of exactly what they do not like about rev. wright. Some of the posts have had racist undertones to them. And some of them are not even subtle. [/QUOTE]

    Yet more liberal condescension and non-sequitors. :rolleyes:

    What did I ever say that gets me labeled as a racist? I said that Blacks as a whole score lower on IQ tests than whites. I also said that whites score lower than Asians. So what? That is the truth! You libs are always talking about science, but you don't care about science. Not when it undermines your liberal templates. The only stupid thing I said and I ADMITTED IT WAS STUPID was "black people are sh*tty tippers." Are you seriously comparing that with the crap that Obama and Chelle subscribe to? That's quite a leap of faith. Especially from liberals who mock and make fun of Christians who believe in the virgin birth. And another thing, stop with the selective outrage. You compared this to McCains relationship with Parsley, when what Hagee said was actually worse! But of course, Hagee was bashing Catholics--- they're also part of the template: BASH AWAY! But Parsley criticised Muslims-- the religion that became the religion of choice to liberal moonbats shortly after 9-11. They have almost reached Homosexuals in the pecking order of priveliged "minorities" in the moonbat heirarchy. We get it: Blacks can do no wrong. Any criticism of black people = racism. Blacks are in prison because the CIA forced them to sell drugs. 70% of Black children are born out of wedlock because of George Bush and his abstinence programs. Blacks are functionally illiterate because rich people aren't paying their fair share. We get it. We know your templates as well as you do.

    I also like the way DumberKhan can say Catholics put cigarettes out on their head on Ash Wednesday and you and the mister hall monitor Doggin94it don't say BOO. Right, because thats part of the moonbat template, it's open season on Catholic bashing 24/7.

    I could go on and on, but what would be the point? You're a delusional moonbat and there is no getting through to you. But let me just say this: You can think what you will about me, and I admit I can be prejudiced at times (based on repetitive experiences), but if I walked into a church and the white preacher was ranting and raving about black people and saying Goddamn America, I would get up and leave. I most certainly wouldn't go back, and I damn sure wouldn't be cutting checks to the place that added up to more than $20,000 dollars.

    Here, you seem to like BS so much, here read this, it's right up your alley:

    [url]http://www.amazon.com/Love-Consequences-Memoir-Hope-Survival/dp/1594489777/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205693203&sr=8-1[/url]
    Last edited by Company_Man; 03-16-2008 at 03:07 PM.

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