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Thread: To The War Mongers; What Do You Say To These People???

  1. #1

    To The War Mongers; What Do You Say To These People???

    [B][SIZE="4"]Psychological scars: the hidden legacy of Iraq [/SIZE][/B]

    by James Hossack

    Mon Mar 17, 8:14 AM ET

    [url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080317/ts_alt_afp/iraqwar5yearsushealth&printer=1[/url]

    Suicides, family breakups, depression and social stigma are just some of the hidden legacies of the Iraq war among the more than one million US troops who have served in the campaign.

    While nearly 4,000 American troops have been killed in the war and more than 29,000 have been wounded, those who escape physical injury still stand a high chance of developing psychological scars that may stay with them for life.

    Some have watched comrades die or witnessed unspeakable carnage, while others may have found it hard to come to terms with the trauma of killing.

    A report last month focused on the psychological toll on troops from the 10th Mountain Division based in New York state, one of the most deployed brigades in the US Army since the September 11 attacks of 2001.

    The study, by the group Veterans for America, [B]found that the mental health care provided for soldiers did not meet the psychological burden they had suffered during repeated deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan.[/B]

    [B]"Sooner or later, and likely sooner, we're going to hit the wall and something will have to change," said Bobby Muller, the founder of Veterans for America and a former Marine paralyzed while serving in Vietnam in 1969.[/B]

    The report[B] criticized a Pentagon policy of extending tours of duty from 12 to 15 months and insufficient time between deployments to recuperate as key factors in the high level of mental problems among returning US troops.[/B]

    On its most recent deployment, [B]the 10th Mountain Division's second brigade combat team lost 52 troops killed in action, while a further 270 were wounded, out of a total troop strength of around 3,500 soldiers.[/B]

    [B]The figures reveal the unit's soldiers to be five times more likely to be killed in action than the average soldier serving in Iraq or Afghanistan, according to the report -- a major psychological stress on the troops.[/B]

    The study found troops in the unit [B]reported low morale, spousal abuse and attempted suicides. And yet, troops had to wait up to two months for an appointment with a mental health expert once they returned, it said[/B].

    A separate report by the Army released earlier this month found that soldiers on their third or fourth combat deployment were at particular risk of suffering mental health problems.

    Major General Gale Pollock, the Army's deputy surgeon general, said the results [B]simply[/B] "show the effects of a long war." :eek:

    A similar report by the Army's Mental Health Advisory Team released in 2007 found that 28 percent of soldiers who had been in high-intensity combat were experiencing post-traumatic stress disorder, or acute stress.

    It also found that [B]the percentage of soldiers with severe stress, emotional, alcohol or family problems had risen more than 85 percent since the invasion of Iraq five years ago.[/B]

    In January, the Army said suicide rates had soared over the past three years, attributing the rise to strains on family relationships.

    "I think it's a marker of the stress on the force," said Colonel Elspeth Ritchie, psychiatric consultant to the army's surgeon general.

    According to the figures,[B] more than 2,000 soldiers tried to take their own lives or injure themselves in 2006, compared to about 375 in 2002[/B].

    Yet another study by the Defense Department in June last year found that more than one third of active Army personnel who returned from combat experienced some degree of mental health problems.

    However, according to some campaigners, [B]the numbers could under-state the true scale of psychological problems, given that some troops are reluctant to admit to trauma, for fear of being stigmatized or overlooked for promotion[/B].

    [B]Veterans for America said it considered that military commanders also wielded too much influence in the treatment of psychological problems[/B].

    In response to that report, the military at Fort Drum, the home of the 10th Mountain Division, acknowledged some shortcomings while characterizing elements of the study as misrepresenting the true picture.

    "While we've made great strides this year to increase our mental health provider capacity, we acknowledge the shortage of mental health providers, not just here but across America," unit commander Major General Michael Oates said.

    [B]"We welcome the opinions of outside interest groups, [/B][B]but we're more interested in well-researched solutions to these problems," spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Paul Swiergosz added in a statement.[/B] :steamin:
    Last edited by intelligentjetsfan; 03-18-2008 at 07:15 AM.

  2. #2
    Now contrast the experiences of these brave men and women who have given their soul to the war on "terror" with the comments by president bush;

    [I]I must say, I'm a little envious. If I were slightly younger and not employed here, I think it would be a fantastic experience to be on the front lines of helping this young democracy succeed.

    It must be exciting for you ... in some ways romantic, in some ways, you know, confronting danger. You're really making history, and thanks.[/I]


    We know it's the easy point to make here, [B]but we do seem to remember a war Bush supported and that he could have participated in if he finds war so romantic. We also seem to remember him avoiding that particular war. But then, maybe that's just us. [/B]

    [url]http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/03/14/bush_afghanistan/index.html?source=rss&aim=/politics/war_room[/url]
    Last edited by intelligentjetsfan; 03-18-2008 at 07:16 AM.

  3. #3
    Funding of Health Care for Soldiers is not a partisan issue IMO. Our Armed Forces should have 100% Health Care after serving some length of time and/or serving in any active combat zone and/or being injured in action.

    The President AND Congress (who controls the purse strings and writes our laws remember) both need to step up on this issue, as I see it.

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2438409]Funding of Health Care for Soldiers is not a partisan issue IMO. Our Armed Forces should have 100% Health Care after serving some length of time and/or serving in any active combat zone and/or being injured in action.

    The President AND Congress (who controls the purse strings and writes our laws remember) both need to step up on this issue, as I see it.[/QUOTE]

    I agree 100%.

    The medical infrastructure of the military has always lagged behind the civilian sector but even more so when it comes to mental health. Washington (both sides) needs to get together and fix these problems. These men and women put their life on the line and deserve to nothing less than top notch treatment when they return.

    The other point to make is since battlefield medicine has improved, their are a lot more soldiers surviving with disabilities than ever before and they should have access to the best doctors and rehab facilities the country has to offer.

  5. #5
    War Mongers don't actually talk to real people, they just post tough guy statements on the internet.

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2438387]Now contrast the experiences of these brave men and women who have given their soul to the war on "terror" with the comments by president bush;

    [I][B]I must say, I'm a little envious. If I were slightly younger and not employed here, I think it would be a fantastic experience to be on the front lines of helping this young democracy succeed.

    It must be exciting for you ... in some ways romantic, in some ways, you know, confronting danger. You're really making history, and thanks[/B].[/I]


    We know it's the easy point to make here, [B]but we do seem to remember a war Bush supported and that he could have participated in if he finds war so romantic. We also seem to remember him avoiding that particular war. But then, maybe that's just us. [/B]

    [url]http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/03/14/bush_afghanistan/index.html?source=rss&aim=/politics/war_room[/url][/QUOTE]

    That might be the most disgusting quote I have ever read. Romantic and exciting. Yeah, lots of romance for a guy with mental health issues and no legs.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=bitonti;2438549]War Mongers don't actually talk to real people, they just post tough guy statements on the internet.[/QUOTE]

    If War Monger is someone who doesnt want to withdraw all of the troops then I am a war monger.

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=Jetfan_Johnny;2438559]If War Monger is someone who doesnt want to withdraw all of the troops then I am a war monger.[/QUOTE]

    No a War Monger is someone who believed or still believes the government when they said we needed to go to war in Iraq for purposes of protecting national security.

    the basic rule of war is you don't attack pre-emptively.

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=bitonti;2438581]No a War Monger is someone who believed or still believes the government when they said we needed to go to war in Iraq for purposes of protecting national security.

    the basic rule of war is you don't attack pre-emptively.[/QUOTE]

    My brother is a Marine stationed in Iraq as we speak. He believes in what he's doing, and doesn't want our troops to withdraw.... Is he a War Monger? Or a hero.?

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=JerseyJet2007;2438589]My brother is a Marine stationed in Iraq as we speak. He believes in what he's doing, and doesn't want our troops to withdraw.... Is he a War Monger? Or a hero.?[/QUOTE]

    The soldiers have to believe in their mission, he's a hero. The War Mongers are those who hide behind computer screens, make outlandish statements and don't put their asses on the line. It's easy to be "for the war" when there is no sacrifice involved.

    I don't blame the soldiers, not one bit. It's the leadership that has failed. Your brother, unless he is a 4 star general, doesn't really have a say in whether this nation should pre-emptively attack another soveriegn nation.

    and even then, 4 star Marine generals like Anthony Zinni said this was a bad idea before the first bomb was dropped - no one listened. He said we needed a half million troops and was basically fired for saying such.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=JerseyJet2007;2438589]My brother is a Marine stationed in Iraq as we speak. He believes in what he's doing, and doesn't want our troops to withdraw.... Is he a War Monger? Or a hero.?[/QUOTE]

    No.

    He is a historic, romantic danger confronter who makes all the AWOL guardsmen hiding in Canada jealous...

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=bitonti;2438594]It's easy to be "for the war" when there is no sacrifice involved. [/QUOTE]

    In fairness, it's also easy to be against the War (and the greater War against Islamic Extemism) when there is no sacrifice or danger on the line.

    As you've said Bit, even if we are attacked again, you're not likely in any danger anyway. Makes it easy to say "there is no problem" if the existence of the problem can't hurt you anyway.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2438596]No.

    He is a historic, romantic danger confronter who makes all the AWOL guardsmen hiding in Canada jealous...[/QUOTE]

    You make me sick

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2438600]In fairness, it's also easy to be against the War (and the greater War against Islamic Extemism) when there is no sacrifice or danger on the line. [/QUOTE]

    In fairness you can't wage effecitive military war against an ethos, only other nations and armies. That was lession number 1 that the war mongers disgarded. Islamic extremism is not an enemy. There are a billion muslims in the world, ya gonna kill em all?

    Also the rest of your comment makes no sense, I can sit here with no sacrifice involved and say that the sacrifice of my fellow countrymen is not worth the cause. I am trying to prevent violence, which is fine to do from behind a keyboard. I am not advocating violence. Anyone who does should be willing to back it up with their own hide.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2438387]Now contrast the experiences of these brave men and women who have given their soul to the war on "terror" with the comments by president bush;

    [I]I must say, I'm a little envious. If I were slightly younger and not employed here, I think it would be a fantastic experience to be on the front lines of helping this young democracy succeed.

    It must be exciting for you ... in some ways romantic, in some ways, you know, confronting danger. You're really making history, and thanks.[/I]


    We know it's the easy point to make here, [B]but we do seem to remember a war Bush supported and that he could have participated in if he finds war so romantic. We also seem to remember him avoiding that particular war. But then, maybe that's just us. [/B]

    [url]http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/03/14/bush_afghanistan/index.html?source=rss&aim=/politics/war_room[/url][/QUOTE]

    You are a typical lefty. Because we are against withdrawing, we are WAR MONGERS. Why don't you listen to what other people say for a change. I didn't even bother to read the article you posted because I know it is probably from some liberal trash heap like the NYT or something trying to say how badly soldiers feel after war. No kidding. Really? The only difference is we support those people. You are all basically telling them what they did is no good. Your side is also trying to make them out to be baby killers and crap like that.

    Listen for a change. There are times in this world where force is necessary. This is one of those times. All you lefties all want to go back to pre-9/11 and it isn't going to happen. The fact is we are in this for a long time, whether you like it or not. If we do as you say and vote in Obama, it is going to make matters worse. We will start coming out of Iraq and Iran will try to take over. Then we can put our heads back in the sand as you would like while Iran gets nuclear. Both of those scenarios will MAKE us have to fight Iran so basically your boy Obama will have to ESCALATE the war. Will it be ok to call him a WAR MONGER when that happens? Geez.

    Get something straight. We had to fight wars to become who we are. It is a necessary evil and just because someone thinks it is necessary to fight doesn't mean we want it to happen or make us a war monger. Also, isn't it your side that doesn't want to be painted with a broad stroke? So why don't you cut it out. I can call all of you whiny sissy boys if I'd like, but I won't.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=bitonti;2438618] That was lession number 1 that the war mongers disgarded. Islamic extremism is not an enemy.
    [/QUOTE]


    Unreal.

    I wish we could deport you..

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=JerseyJet2007;2438626]Unreal.

    I wish we could deport you..[/QUOTE]

    France would love to have him.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=JerseyJet2007;2438626]Unreal.

    I wish we could deport you..[/QUOTE]

    Who's we? Im an American citizen like you buddy. Read the consitution some time it guarunees a right to free speech. Maybe you should move to North Korea, they share your views on repressing rebellous speech.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=JetinHuntersville;2438632]France would love to have him.[/QUOTE]

    That's funny cause I was just thinking you guys would do great in China.

    Maybe you can work for the state agency that censors the internet from people.

    Anyone with a view point not endorsed by the government can go to a work camp.

    Sound like democracy to you ?

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=JetinHuntersville;2438620]You are a typical lefty. Because we are against withdrawing, we are WAR MONGERS. .[/QUOTE]

    withdrawal has nothing to do with the label of WAR MONGER.

    It's all about what you were saying in 2002.

    If you were for the war on another country you were a WAR MONGER.

    Once the war is started, there's no more mongering needed.

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