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Thread: Buried in Eloquence, Obama Contradictions About Pastor

  1. #1
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    Buried in Eloquence, Obama Contradictions About Pastor

    [QUOTE][B]Buried in Eloquence, Obama Contradictions About Pastor
    In Speech, Obama Contradicted More Than a Year of Denials About His Knowledge of Rev. Wright's Sermons By BRIAN ROSS and AVNI PATEL
    March 19, 2008 [/B]
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    Buried in his eloquent, highly praised speech on America's racial divide, Sen. Barack Obama contradicted more than a year of denials and spin from him and his staff about his knowledge of Rev. Jeremiah Wright's controversial sermons.

    Similarly, Obama also has only recently given a much fuller accounting of his relationship with indicted political fixer Antoin "Tony" Rezko, a longtime friend, who his campaign once described as just one of "thousands of donors."

    Until yesterday, Obama said the only thing controversial he knew about Rev. Wright was his stand on issues relating to Africa, abortion and gay marriage.

    "I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial," Obama said at a community meeting in Nelsonville, Ohio, earlier this month.

    "He has said some things that are considered controversial because he's considered that part of his social gospel; so he was one of the leaders in calling for divestment from South Africa and some other issues like that," Obama said on March 2.

    His initial reaction to the initial ABC News broadcast of Rev. Wright's sermons denouncing the U.S. was that he had never heard his pastor of 20 years make any comments that were anti-U.S. until the tape was played on air.

    But yesterday, he told a different story.

    "Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes," he said in his speech yesterday in Philadelphia.

    Obama did not say what he heard that he considered "controversial," and the campaign has yet to answer repeated requests for dates on which the senator attended Rev. Wright's sermons over the last 20 years.

    In the case of his relationship with Rezko, Obama has also been slow to acknowledge the full extent of his relationship.

    It was only last week that he revealed Rezko had raised some $250,000 in campaign contributions for him.

    The campaign had initially claimed Rezko-connected contributions were no more than $60,000, an amount the campaign donated to charity. Then the figure grew to around $86,000, and there were additional revelations that put the amount at about $150,000. Obama's $250,000 accounting was a substantial jump and clearly contradicted earlier campaign statements that Rezko was just one of "thousands of donors."

    Rezko is now on trial in federal court in Chicago, charged with a pattern of bribing state officials to obtain various Illinois state contracts. Rezko has pleaded not guilty to the charges.

    Obama was initially vague about Rezko's role in helping him buy a new home on Chicago's south side. Unable to afford an adjacent vacant lot the seller wanted to sell at the same time as the house, Obama approached Rezko. Rezko's wife bought the lot on the same day Obama bought the house, and then later, Mrs. Rezko sold the Obamas a strip of the lot which gave the Obamas a larger backyard.

    Obama called it a "bone-headed" mistake but never revealed, until he met with Chicago reporters last week, that Rezko had actually toured the house with him and been deeply involved in the transaction.

    In a statement, campaign press secretary Bill Burton said, "Last week, Sen. Obama spent almost three hours answering every single question about Tony Rezko posed by the local reporters who've covered the story closest for years. Those newspapers said they were more than satisfied with his open, honest answers. We've given all of the money contributed to Barack Obama's federal campaigns that could reasonably be credited to Mr. Rezko's political support to charity. Sen. Obama also provided an estimate of the most that could have possibly been raised as a result of Mr. Rezko's efforts, but that estimate is not a basis upon which any individual contributions can be donated to charity. "

    As to Rev. Wright, Burton said, "While Sen. Obama was not in church for the incendiary and offensive statements of Rev. Wright that have been played on television over the last week, yesterday he delivered a deeply personal, honest speech on race in America in which he acknowledged that over the course of 20 years, of course he heard statements from Wright that could be considered controversial."

    [/QUOTE]

    [url]http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4480868&page=1[/url]

  2. #2
    yeah we've had enough of eloquence. I like my leaders barely literate, like Dubya!

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE]"He has said some things that are considered controversial because he's considered that part of his social gospel; so he was one of the leaders in calling for divestment from South Africa and some other issues like that," Obama said on March 2.

    "Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes," he said in his speech yesterday in Philadelphia.[/QUOTE]

    So where exactly is the contradiction?

  4. #4
    CBTNY

    You must understand this, a child could -- Obama said: "I don't agree with some of the things he says but he's close like family so what can I do?" I think anyone can relate to that.

    My Grandmother (a resident of Queens) referred to some neighbors as "Coons" a few years back. When a Chinese take-out restaurant moved into her neighborhood she said "I wish they'd take out the Chinese". It made me cringe both times (although I did laugh about the alliteration on the Chinese comment) Only a complete phony and disgusting human being would "distance" themselves from family, close friends etc. In fact, Christianity teaches forgiveness and patience with others (as do all the major religions I know of). Obama's response is the human response, not the fake, Mitt Romney response -- this is what leadership looks like -- hard as it is to recognize after the last 8 years. No contradiction, just eloquence and leadership.

    In the end, Obama's critics are going to regret pressing this attack -- it's killing the notion that he is a Muslim once and for all.:yes:

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2441491]CBTNY

    You must understand this, a child could -- Obama said: "I don't agree with some of the things he says but he's close like family so what can I do?" I think anyone can relate to that.

    My Grandmother (a resident of Queens) referred to some neighbors as "Coons" a few years back. When a Chinese take-out restaurant moved into her neighborhood she said "I wish they'd take out the Chinese". It made me cringe both times (although I did laugh about the alliteration on the Chinese comment) Only a complete phony and disgusting human being would "distance" themselves from family, close friends etc. In fact, Christianity teaches forgiveness and patience with others (as do all the major religions I know of). Obama's response is the human response, not the fake, Mitt Romney response -- this is what leadership looks like -- hard as it is to recognize after the last 8 years. No contradiction, just eloquence and leadership.

    In the end, Obama's critics are going to regret pressing this attack -- it's killing the notion that he is a Muslim once and for all.:yes:[/QUOTE]

    is your grandmother your pastor??? did you choose who your grandmother would be???

    the only thing fake is the belief somehow obama is genuine....denial after denial about wright and then some justification that wright was a victim which caused his words.....

    sorry- I don't buy it....

    I would never have voted for obama because of his political stance on several issuse but I would've respected him a hell of a lot more had he said, "what rev wright said is wrong and there is no place for that sort of intolerance- see ya' rev and it's time to move along"...

    that would represent [B]change[/B]

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    [QUOTE=parafly;2441468]So where exactly is the contradiction?[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE][B]Buried in his eloquent, highly praised speech on America's racial divide, Sen. Barack Obama contradicted more than a year of denials and spin from him and his staff about his knowledge of Rev. Jeremiah Wright's controversial sermons. [/B][/QUOTE]...

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2441491]CBTNY

    You must understand this, a child could -- Obama said: "I don't agree with some of the things he says but he's close like family so what can I do?" I think anyone can relate to that.
    [/QUOTE]


    Aw shucks, that just broke my heart.

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2441507]is your grandmother your pastor??? did you choose who your grandmother would be???

    the only thing fake is the belief somehow obama is genuine....denial after denial about wright and then some justification that wright was a victim which caused his words.....

    sorry- I don't buy it....

    I would never have voted for obama because of his political stance on several issuse but I would've respected him a hell of a lot more had he said, "what rev wright said is wrong and there is no place for that sort of intolerance- see ya' rev and it's time to move along"...

    that would represent [B]change[/B][/QUOTE]


    Some people do, in fact, get very close to their clergy. Not me, I think they're all witch-doctors.

    No one described Wright as a victim, least of all Obama. You would know that if you listened to the speech.

    Correct, you would never voted for Obama, but nothing he could have said would have satisfied you. You would, instead call whatever words he used to reject Wright "insincere". Ask yourself this -- if it was in Obama's interest to completely reject Wright why, if he is a "fake" as you say, didn't he do that? .

    Its OK though, most Republicans are desperate to avoid the total trouncing that's coming in November, I'm happy that this is the best attack they've got. Also -- mail the Rezko stuff to two weeks ago, he got a %100 acquittal from Chicago's Conservative Newspaper the Tribune.
    Last edited by fukushimajin; 03-19-2008 at 04:13 PM. Reason: fixed

  9. #9
    Buried in Flatulence, Obama Contradictions About Pastor

  10. #10
    [quote=Come Back to NY;2441509]...[/quote]

    CB, I gotta agree with Parafly. In the past, Obama's said "I've heard him say things that could be considered controversial about various topics, but not anti-US or anti-white"

    The line in his speech these writers are saying contradicts that is simply [B]Obama repeating what he's said before[/B]: That he's heard Wright make comments that could be considered controversial.

    He doesn't say "I've heard him make anti-white/anti-US comments" (which would be a contradiction)

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2441509]Buried in his eloquent, highly praised speech on America's racial divide, Sen. Barack Obama contradicted more than a year of denials and spin from him and his staff about his knowledge of Rev. Jeremiah Wright's controversial sermons.[/QUOTE]

    How is that true if just a couple of paragraphs later it says the following???

    [QUOTE]"He has said some things that are considered controversial because he's considered that part of his social gospel; so he was one of the leaders in calling for divestment from South Africa and some other issues like that," Obama said on [B]March 2[/B].[/QUOTE]

    Doesn't seem like much of a denial...and March 2nd certainly falls into the timeframe of the last year.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2441523]Some people do, in fact, get very close to their clergy. Not me, I think they're all witch-doctors.

    No one described Wright as a victim, least of all Obama. If you listened to the speech.[/QUOTE]

    oh- I listened to his speech live and I heard lots of excuses for wright and how his racist sermons were a result of his victimization

    [QUOTE]Correct, you would never voted for Obama, but nothing he could have said would have satisfied you. You would, instead call whatever words he used to reject Wright "insincere". Ask yourself this -- if it was in Obama's interest to completely reject Wright why, if he is a "fake" as you say, didn't he do that? .[/QUOTE]

    I made my statement...you believe what you want to....obama is certainly proving himself to be the candidate for "change" ain't he???:rolleyes:

    [QUOTE]Its OK though, most Republicans are desperate to avoid the total trouncing that's coming in November, I'm happy that this is the best attack they've got. Also -- mail the Rezko stuff to two weeks ago, he got a %100 acquittal from Chicago's Conservative Newspaper the Tribune.[/QUOTE]

    again- you delude yourself anyway you'd like.....

    funny how hillary has been quiet in all this...what did Winston Churchill say?? something to the extent of "don't try and murder your enemy when they are committing suicide" ????

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2441491]CBTNY

    You must understand this, a child could -- Obama said: "I don't agree with some of the things he says but he's close like family so what can I do?" I think anyone can relate to that.

    My Grandmother (a resident of Queens) referred to some neighbors as "Coons" a few years back. When a Chinese take-out restaurant moved into her neighborhood she said "I wish they'd take out the Chinese". It made me cringe both times (although I did laugh about the alliteration on the Chinese comment) Only a complete phony and disgusting human being would "distance" themselves from family, close friends etc. In fact, Christianity teaches forgiveness and patience with others (as do all the major religions I know of). Obama's response is the human response, not the fake, Mitt Romney response -- this is what leadership looks like -- hard as it is to recognize after the last 8 years. No contradiction, just eloquence and leadership.

    In the end, Obama's critics are going to regret pressing this attack -- it's killing the notion that he is a Muslim once and for all.:yes:[/QUOTE]

    Problem is he's not family. He never was. I am sure even you could deduce...a child could....that this is likely not Wright's first outburst of hate and racism. I'm sure there have been plenty of them throughout the 20 years Obama knew him. Even still Obama sought to befriend this man so much that he is his closest confidant and guide? This is really who you want as president? When he encounters his first difficult task and turns for advice to Wright, that makes you feel comfortable? Obama displayed terrible judgment at the least, or actually believes this nonsense at the worst. Somewhere in the middle is the fact he is a hypocrite for damning Imus while praising Wright.

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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;2441529]CB, I gotta agree with Parafly. In the past, Obama's said "I've heard him say things that could be considered controversial about various topics, but not anti-US or anti-white"

    The line in his speech these writers are saying contradicts that is simply [B]Obama repeating what he's said before[/B]: That he's heard Wright make comments that could be considered controversial.

    He doesn't say "I've heard him make anti-white/anti-US comments" (which would be a contradiction)[/QUOTE]

    I disagree....

    the only example used is of a comment on South Africa two weeks before this thing finally made it into the main stream...as you well know this has been around longer than that...

    and take this for what it is worth- next will be his positions which are viewed by many as anti-Israel and some of his advisors, who are also viewed as anti-Israel (such as Robert Malley).....

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=Snell;2441537]Problem is he's not family. He never was. I am sure even you could deduce...a child could....that this is likely not Wright's first outburst of hate and racism. I'm sure there have been plenty of them throughout the 20 years Obama knew him. Even still Obama sought to befriend this man so much that he is his closest confidant and guide? This is really who you want as president? When he encounters his first difficult task and turns for advice to Wright, that makes you feel comfortable? Obama displayed terrible judgment at the least, or actually believes this nonsense at the worst. Somewhere in the middle is the fact he is a hypocrite for damning Imus while praising Wright.[/QUOTE]

    Wright's words are not a secret, they are not Obama's words and there is no reason to believe he follows Wright's teaching in those areas. If you feel that a man is his minister then our argument is at an end. Obama will never turn to his minister for advice, no President, not matter how publicly religious ever does. Bush is supposed to be a big bible-thumper -- I'd like you to name me the clergyman who's advising him. It doesn't happen.

    I'm sure as a secular leftist, that I would be horrified by what is said in John McCain's or George Bush's white protestant church as I am horrified by 90% of what I hear when I go into any church. But I don't care. I make no pretense of the fact that when I listen to Conservative Republican religious leaders I listen only with an ear for offensive comments. I oppose or support individuals for their positions on policy matters and very little else.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2441573]Wright's words are not a secret, they are not [B]Obama's words and there is no reason to believe he follows Wright's teaching in those areas.[/B] If you feel that a man is his minister then our argument is at an end. Obama will never turn to his minister for advice, no President, not matter how publicly religious ever does. Bush is supposed to be a big bible-thumper -- I'd like you to name me the clergyman who's advising him. It doesn't happen.

    I'm sure as a secular leftist, that I would be horrified by what is said in John McCain's or George Bush's white protestant church as I am horrified by 90% of what I hear when I go into any church. But I don't care. I make no pretense of the fact that when I listen to Conservative Republican religious leaders I listen only with an ear for offensive comments. I oppose or support individuals for their positions on policy matters and very little else.[/QUOTE]

    So your saying you would be completely ok with John McCain coming out and saying the head of the KKK is his closest confidant and spiritual guide, he just ignores the racist stuff? Please.............

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Snell;2441610]So your saying you would be completely ok with John McCain coming out and saying the head of the KKK is his closest confidant and spiritual guide, he just ignores the racist stuff? Please.............[/QUOTE]

    That's not really a fair comparison.

    The KKK is nothing but hate, its only goal being to push white supremacy. Obama's church is not all about racism and bitter racial tension. It is first and foremost an institution of faith, and they are quite active in the community and do alot of good for the people of Chicago.

    You are allowing the 5 sound bytes by Obama's pastor to be the absolute definition of everything the church stands for and preaches.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Snell;2441610]So your saying you would be completely ok with John McCain coming out and saying the head of the KKK is his closest confidant and spiritual guide, he just ignores the racist stuff? Please.............[/QUOTE]

    What a ridiculous comparison. The KKK is a domestic terrorist organization. Jeremiah Wright's church receives state and local funding for non-sectarian youth programs to this day. The fact that you make this comparison shows how far off the handle you've flown on this issue.

    However, to answer your question. If it came out that John McCain' s Pastor believed:

    1) Evolution is a fraud
    2) Aids is God's Punishment for immorality
    3) 9-11 is the fault of Gays. NYC deserved it.
    4) The Iraq war is a crusade to defend against Muslim encroachment.
    5) Women belong in the home.
    6) Man was given dominion over the earth.
    (all things I find deeply offensive/regressive and which are preached on weekly basis across wide swaths of the country -- some certainly more than others)

    I would not think less of John McCain who is a respectable, humorous, sometimes heroic fellow with whom I disagree profoundly.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=parafly;2441632]That's not really a fair comparison.

    The KKK is nothing but hate, its only goal being to push white supremacy. Obama's church is not all about racism and bitter racial tension. It is first and foremost an institution of faith, and they are quite active in the community and do alot of good for the people of Chicago.

    You are allowing the 5 sound bytes by Obama's pastor to be the absolute definition of everything the church stands for and preaches.[/QUOTE]

    We're not indicting his church, we are indicting Reverend Wright, who is just as much a racist and hate monger as a Klansmen. Racism is racism whether it comes from a white, black, yellow, red, blue, or green person. It's no softer because it came from a black guy dressed in church garb.

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2441635]What a ridiculous comparison. The KKK is a domestic terrorist organization. Jeremiah Wright's church receives state and local funding for non-sectarian youth programs to this day. The fact that you make this comparison shows how far off the handle you've flown on this issue.

    However, to answer your question. If it came out that John McCain' s Pastor believed:

    1) Evolution is a fraud
    2) Aids is God's Punishment for immorality
    3) 9-11 is the fault of Gays. NYC deserved it.
    4) The Iraq war is a crusade to defend against Muslim encroachment.
    5) Women belong in the home.
    6) Man was given dominion over the earth.
    (all things I find deeply offensive/regressive and which are preached on weekly basis across wide swaths of the country -- some certainly more than others)

    I would not think less of John McCain who is a respectable, humorous, sometimes heroic fellow with whom I disagree profoundly.[/QUOTE]

    Again, I have nothing against Obama's church. I have a problem with the racist man that Obama befriended and considers his closest guide and confidant.

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