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Thread: Another "mouthpiece" for selling out American Workers

  1. #1
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    Another "mouthpiece" for selling out American Workers

    remember this when you think about purchasing an iPhone (since AT&T is the service provider) or AT&T services. This is the CEO push for more h1-b visas and acceptance for more offshoring of American jobs.

    AT&T CEO says hard to find skilled U.S. workers
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080327/...t_workforce_dc

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielbateman View Post
    remember this when you think about purchasing an iPhone (since AT&T is the service provider) or AT&T services. This is the CEO push for more h1-b visas and acceptance for more offshoring of American jobs.

    AT&T CEO says hard to find skilled U.S. workers
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080327/...t_workforce_dc
    What's the problem? Is he supposed to run his business inefficiently because hey, those are "American" jobs? The world is changing and American kids and workers need to buck up and face reality. If AT&T can get more productivity out of Indian labor, they should. Jobs go to those who deserve them. There are no "American" jobs in perpetuity. If we cease to become the best candidates, we don't have those jobs anymore and a CEO is a fool to willfully run his business inefficiently. Economic nationalism and protectionism is like a belief in witches. Imagine if people in PA got angry that AT&T was sending "their" jobs to OH. Our education system is not producing kids who have the skills companies like AT&T want, and they also have a sense of entitlement to wages that are not commensurate with their skills. We need to stop villifying people whose job it is to run a business efficiently and make a profit -- guess what, without profits, there are no jobs, "American" or otherwise -- and start realizing that we all sleep in the beds we've made.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by jets5ever View Post
    What's the problem? Is he supposed to run his business inefficiently because hey, those are "American" jobs? The world is changing and American kids and workers need to buck up and face reality. If AT&T can get more productivity out of Indian labor, they should. Jobs go to those who deserve them. There are no "American" jobs in perpetuity. If we cease to become the best candidates, we don't have those jobs anymore and a CEO is a fool to willfully run his business inefficiently. Economic nationalism and protectionism is like a belief in witches. Imagine if people in PA got angry that AT&T was sending "their" jobs to OH. Our education system is not producing kids who have the skills companies like AT&T want, and they also have a sense of entitlement to wages that are not commensurate with their skills. We need to stop villifying people whose job it is to run a business efficiently and make a profit -- guess what, without profits, there are no jobs, "American" or otherwise -- and start realizing that we all sleep in the beds we've made.

    excellent post. the fact there are only 60,000 H-1B's per year is killing our economy, especially when 60% of those H-1B's go to Indian consultant companies who basically send people are for 3-6 years only to send them back to India. Why would any foreign talen come here to the US anymore when upon graduation, they cannot get a job. Do you know how bad that is for our economy when international students are ignoring us and benefitting the economies of other countires? Bottom line is American kids are just not going into engineering and tech fields.

  4. #4
    It probably is hard to find skilled American workers. They're all busy screwing around on the Internets.

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    Didn't AT&T cut about 15% or so of its staff about 2 years ago to move to automated services? And now there saying there isn't enough skilled workers?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by finlee17 View Post
    Didn't AT&T cut about 15% or so of its staff about 2 years ago to move to automated services? And now there saying there isn't enough skilled workers?
    do you know what a skilled worker is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by finlee17 View Post
    Didn't AT&T cut about 15% or so of its staff about 2 years ago to move to automated services? And now there saying there isn't enough skilled workers?
    Exactly. Instead...we end up with apologists for companies that sue brain dead, disabled workers for their health care costs after they were broadsided by a tractor trailer and whose son was just killed in Iraq.

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/25/wal...tle/index.html

    19,000,000,000 is obviously not enough. 19,000,470,000 makes everything much much better.
    Last edited by PlumberKhan; 03-27-2008 at 10:47 AM.

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    There aren't enough low wage skilled workers, have to read between the lines.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by klynch View Post
    There aren't enough low wage skilled workers, have to read between the lines.
    All H-1B applicants are rquired to at least meet the average wages for their position whaere the job location is located.

    I understand the argument against illegal immigration. But the response people have who are against illegal immigration is, well i am for legal immigration. Well, what is it?

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    Didn't "T" cut a bunch of Bell South and Cingular employees when the merged?

    I can't wait until his job is outsourced

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    Wouldn't outsourcing American jobs create higher umployment here? I thought unemployment was a bad thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Exactly. Instead...we end up with apologists for companies that sue brain dead, disabled workers for their health care costs after they were broadsided by a tractor trailer and whose son was just killed in Iraq.

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/25/wal...tle/index.html

    19,000,000,000 is obviously not enough. 19,000,470,000 makes everything much much better.
    That's a net sales figure, not a net profit figure. This settlement wouldn't affect their sales.

    Wal-Mart sued before the son was killed and because this woman received a settlement from the truck company. If they make an exception here, then everyone else who they don't make an exception for will sue them for discrimination and probably win and even if they don't, Wal-Mart will have to spend millions and millions in legal fees. They have over a million employees.

    I am not an "apologist" for anyone - simply somone who understand how the world works and doesn't always assign blame like a child does.

    Cutting staff is part of running a business. People need to grow up. And "outsourcing" these "American" jobs doesn't create unemployment here because there is not a finite stock of jobs.

    My GOD, we need to teach basic economics and finance in high school. Too many people today are considered educated and they have no freaking clue how the world works and are thus susceptible to nonsense.

    Please read Economic Facts and Fallacies by Thomas Sowell. Please.

  13. #13
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    This is Capitalism. This is how our nation operates. You either learn to deal with it or die out on the street somewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jets5ever View Post

    My GOD, we need to teach basic economics and finance in high school. Too many people today are considered educated and they have no freaking clue how the world works and are thus susceptible to nonsense.

    Please read Economic Facts and Fallacies by Thomas Sowell. Please.

    Very rare that we agree.

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    Yep. So, we got illegals taking away or driving down wages on blue collar jobs. Next, you have offshoring and H1-b Visas taking white collar jobs (customer service and sales, information technology, and engineering). There goes your middle class. Unemployment rate may be low but that doesn't figure in those who don't factor into the numbers anymore or the underemployed. So, the AT&Ts of the world are probably paying $4 an hour with no benefits to some of these customer reps in India and saying the can't find U.S. workers (yeah, to work for $4 an hour with no benefits). Then, in India people taking these white collar jobs while they have kids working the blue collar jobs there:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jessawang/2087147929/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/mistres...nge/685290511/

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetdawgg View Post
    Didn't "T" cut a bunch of Bell South and Cingular employees when the merged?

    I can't wait until his job is outsourced

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    Quote Originally Posted by jets5ever
    Please read Economic Facts and Fallacies by Thomas Sowell. Please
    I will do no such thing. Thomas Sowell is a hack...

    I have read Mr. Sowell. He's a great writer...I believe I read one of his books when you recommended I do so about a year or so ago.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by danielbateman View Post
    Yep. So, we got illegals taking away or driving down wages on blue collar jobs. Next, you have offshoring and H1-b Visas taking white collar jobs (customer service and sales, information technology, and engineering). There goes your middle class. Unemployment rate may be low but that doesn't figure in those who don't factor into the numbers anymore or the underemployed. So, the AT&Ts of the world are probably paying $4 an hour with no benefits to some of these customer reps in India and saying the can't find U.S. workers (yeah, to work for $4 an hour with no benefits). Then, in India people taking these white collar jobs while they have kids working the blue collar jobs there:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jessawang/2087147929/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/mistres...nge/685290511/
    you can argue all you want about illegals and i wouldnt disagree. but before you comment on H-1B's, you should probably know what you are talking about before you form an opinion. people who do customer service and sales would nto qualify for the H-1B. right now, there are 60K H-1B's per annum, which is basically nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Exactly. Instead...we end up with apologists for companies that sue brain dead, disabled workers for their health care costs after they were broadsided by a tractor trailer and whose son was just killed in Iraq.

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/25/wal...tle/index.html

    19,000,000,000 is obviously not enough. 19,000,470,000 makes everything much much better.
    got your facts wrong about this one hansome...although i agree with your flavor.

  19. #19
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    H1-Bs: take away Information Technology and Engineering Jobs

    Offshore: take away Information Technology, Engineering Jobs, Customer Service and Sales Jobs.

    Is that clear?

    When you call to activate a phone service (iPhone, wireless, etc.), Credit Care, etc (and these people try to sell additional services, plans, etc.), many time you are talking to an offshore call center. And since many of those jobs are offshored, you also lose some of the management jobs (i.e. people who run the call centers).

    Do you understand?

    I workedT jobs where we also have call center people. I know what I'm talking about. Many of the call center jobs they would have offshore are usually via temp agencies and those reps would usually get paid 8-12 bucks an hour (usually no benefits). And they would still have people applying for those jobs and companies turning them away (because they would offshore whatever they could to India, etc.)


    Quote Originally Posted by mallamalla View Post
    you can argue all you want about illegals and i wouldnt disagree. but before you comment on H-1B's, you should probably know what you are talking about before you form an opinion. people who do customer service and sales would nto qualify for the H-1B. right now, there are 60K H-1B's per annum, which is basically nothing.

  20. #20
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    H1-B Visas:

    There is an annual cap on H-1B admissions of 65,000 workers per fiscal year. The ceiling set by Congress was 115,000 in both FY1999 and FY2000, 107,500 in FY2001, and back to 65,000 in FY2002. The cap was raised by 297,500 over three years, FY2000-FY2002. 80,000 new H-1B visas were added for FY2000, 87,500 visas for FY2001, and 130,000 visas for FY2002. In addition, excluded from the ceiling are all H-1B nonimmigrants who work for universities and nonprofit research facilities. Free Trade Agreements allow a carve out from the numerical limit of 1,400 for Chilean nationals and 5,400 for Singapore nationals. Laws also exempt up to 20,000 foreign nationals holding a master’s or higher degree from U.S. universities from the cap on H-1B visas.

    The Department of Homeland Security approved about 132,000 H-1B visas in 2004 and 117,000 in 2005.

    Visa renewals do not count towards the annual limits. Transfers among employers only count when changing jobs from an employer exempt from the limits (academia or research) to one that is not exempt.


    So add them up and how many over this period? Also, what was the gain(not NEW JOBS; the actual gain) in the U.S. of IT and Engineering Jobs. And then subtract the number of jobs offshored. And then subtract how many new graduates that could fill and IT and Engineering role during that period. That Math would tell you all you need to know.
    Last edited by danielbateman; 03-27-2008 at 03:07 PM.

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