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Thread: Education Mess in the USA

  1. #1
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    Education Mess in the USA

    What can and should be done about education in the USA?
    I believe:
    1) Get rid of the Dept. of Education.
    2) Set up a standard group of classes for Kindergarden, 1 thru 8 and 9 to 12
    3) The basics being math, english, spelling, history chime in please.
    4) Language started early rather then later
    5) All classes must be passed so you can graduate. Oh no retaking tests that one fails This is a common thing in Mn schools.

    I just cant believe The University of Mn is offering remedial classes in English and Math. What the hell are these kids doing in college in the first place! Excuse my English I didn't go to college for remedial English.

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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2454612]What can and should be done about education in the USA?
    I believe:
    1) Get rid of the Dept. of Education.
    2) Set up a standard group of classes for Kindergarden, 1 thru 8 and 9 to 12
    3) The basics being math, english, spelling, history chime in please.
    4) Language started early rather then later
    5) [B]All classes must be passed so you can graduate. Oh no retaking tests that one fails This is a common thing in Mn schools.[/B]

    I just cant believe The University of Mn is offering remedial classes in English and Math. What the hell are these kids doing in college in the first place! Excuse my English I didn't go to college for remedial English.[/QUOTE]


    So, if someone fails a single class, they can never graduate?

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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2454612]What can and should be done about education in the USA?
    I believe:
    1) Get rid of the Dept. of Education.
    2) Set up a standard group of classes for Kindergarden, 1 thru 8 and 9 to 12
    3) The basics being math, english, spelling, history chime in please.
    4) Language started early rather then later
    5) All classes must be passed so you can graduate. Oh no retaking tests that one fails This is a common thing in Mn schools.

    I just cant believe The University of Mn is offering remedial classes in English and Math. What the hell are these kids doing in college in the first place! Excuse my English I didn't go to college for remedial English.[/QUOTE]

    Practical question: If you eliminate the Dept. of Education in step No. 1, who is it you see setting up the standard groups of classes and rules in steps No.2 through No. 5?

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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2454679]Practical question: If you eliminate the Dept. of Education in step No. 1, who is it you see setting up the standard groups of classes and rules in steps No.2 through No. 5?[/QUOTE]

    MnJetFan, of course. ;)

    I guess he means get rid of State Education Departments, which are the true employers and governing bodies overseeing schools. That's practical... ??

    The Feds give out some money and try to set some national standards, but somehow they always get foiled by the states. Try to compare quality of education across state lines... it's virtually impossible, not to mention that many states want nothing to do with that. They would do so poorly no one would ever relocate there and they'd hear a giant sucking sound as the middle class families move out. The more basic question is: what exactly are you trying to fix? Drop-out rates? Drugs? Illiteracy? Are these problems universal or primarily an "inner city/poor rural area" issue?

    I'd say, turn off the big switch that controls all the TV set across America from 3:00pm to 9:00pm. That would be a good start. Maybe if we don't dismantle the FCC they could provide that service. They don't do much else except pander to the cable lobby....:yes:

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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2454679]Practical question: If you eliminate the Dept. of Education in step No. 1, who is it you see setting up the standard groups of classes and rules in steps No.2 through No. 5?[/QUOTE]

    Private corporations. We must privatize education. :rolleyes:

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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2454612]What can and should be done about education in the USA?
    I believe:
    1) Get rid of the Dept. of Education.
    2) Set up a standard group of classes for Kindergarden, 1 thru 8 and 9 to 12
    3) The basics being math, english, spelling, history chime in please.
    4) Language started early rather then later
    5) All classes must be passed so you can graduate. Oh no retaking tests that one fails This is a common thing in Mn schools.

    I just cant believe The University of Mn is offering remedial classes in English and Math. What the hell are these kids doing in college in the first place! Excuse my English I didn't go to college for remedial English.[/QUOTE]

    Unless parents take interest in their children's education and take an active role (go to parent teacher conferences, review their kids homework, ask the what they are learning and find out how they do after each exam)we will continue to face the same problems.

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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2454788]Unless parents take interest in their children's education and take an active role (go to parent teacher conferences, review their kids homework, ask the what they are learning and find out how they do after each exam)we will continue to face the same problems.[/QUOTE]

    +1 Good post.

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    I was thinking along the lines of a corporate run education dept. We are paying thru the nose for an education is failing. Here in Mn. we pay an average of 6 Grand a year for education. We must and can do better. If people are on public substinence(sp) refuse to get involved cut their checks.
    I think that is a start.

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    Philadelphia School District is doing exactly that for a while now and the CEO of the School District is making 350,000K per year. Not much has changed at all. Well except the CEO is making a ton of cash for a couple of years and then running off to another district.

    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2455014]I was thinking along the lines of a corporate run education dept. We are paying thru the nose for an education is failing. Here in Mn. we pay an average of 6 Grand a year for education. We must and can do better. If people are on public substinence(sp) refuse to get involved cut their checks.
    I think that is a start.[/QUOTE]

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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2454612]What can and should be done about education in the USA?
    I believe:
    1) Get rid of the Dept. of Education.
    2) Set up a standard group of classes for Kindergarden, 1 thru 8 and 9 to 12
    3) The basics being math, english, spelling, history chime in please.
    4) Language started early rather then later
    5) All classes must be passed so you can graduate. Oh no retaking tests that one fails This is a common thing in Mn schools.

    I just cant believe The University of Mn is offering remedial classes in English and Math. What the hell are these kids doing in college in the first place! Excuse my English I didn't go to college for remedial English.[/QUOTE]

    1)I wouldn't get rid of it, but like most things federal it needs serious restructuring.
    2)If you mean size then holy s*** yes! No excuse for a child to have to share 1 teacher with 34 other children at the same time.
    3)Don't forget music and gym!
    4)Foreign Language? Hell yeah. Spanish, French, Chinese, Arabic, Hebrew, Japanese, and maybe German depending on regional demographic. Latin would help with students vocabulary.
    5)One test shouldn't determine the fate of a student. Then they'll learn to just pass that test and be done with schooling(which is what goes on a lot now). A standard should be met based on overall accomplishments.

    Nothing wrong with remedial classes. My peeve with them is that too many students right out of high school need them. If it's been a few years between I fully understand.

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    How about throwing 1/2 the students into vocational schools where they might actually learn a trade and make a living? We talk about American problems all the time, but the lack of American born skilled labor is not one them (plus the imported kind...FLAT OUT SUCKS). Ask PK, he makes a killing (and God bless him for it), but he knows how few good plumbers there are. Our education seems to be directed towards sending all students to the ivy leagues. And for those who don't go? Well, they can mimic Ivy league studies at community college.

    And the cost of college? Kids will learn an effin' lot more by flat out going to work (and then, later in life, hiring MBAs to do great work for them...ala "Rich Dad, Poor Dad").

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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2454612]What can and should be done about education in the USA?
    I believe:
    1) Get rid of the Dept. of Education.
    2) Set up a standard group of classes for Kindergarden, 1 thru 8 and 9 to 12
    3) The basics being math, english, spelling, history chime in please.
    4) Language started early rather then later
    5) All classes must be passed so you can graduate. Oh no retaking tests that one fails This is a common thing in Mn schools.

    I just cant believe The University of Mn is offering remedial classes in English and Math. What the hell are these kids doing in college in the first place! Excuse my English I didn't go to college for remedial English.[/QUOTE]

    1) I think it needs serious restructuring.

    2) I think "standard classes" are fine for Kindergarten. After that you need to take into account "gifted" children, "normal" children, and "learning disabled" children. I believe in High school, you can keep the level 1, 2, and 3 courses.[B] There needs to be proficiency tests in English and Basic Math.[/B] I go nuts when I tutor people in Math every summer who just don't get it because they were "passed along" in school and never took school seriously. They end up not taking tutoring seriously. I still get my money, but I just shake my head.

    3) While I was always a math tutor, I am now getting my masters in Music Ed. Music is clearly an "extra" and is not vital to basic functioning. I hate to say it, but its true. However, people who take music at a young age have better math and writing skills. I understand though, that people in a low demographic (in just about any variable) need to focus on English and basic math. I would never push music on a kid like that, but would be more than happy to let the kid participate in and enjoy the basic music classes.

    4) The only reason I know French with some basic degree of fluency is because I went to France a few times. None of my friends speak another language. Almost no American kids speak another language that they were "taught" - only kids who speak another language at home speak that other language. Except for very rich children who grew up with tutors. Language education is deplorable in the US.

    However, anyone who sets foot on American soil needs to speak English. JUST LIKE anyone who sets foot in another country needs to speak that language - or at least attempt it! When in France, I was embarrassed by the other Americans who would speak English to the French and get pissed when the French got pissed. Get a phrase book and learn some G.D. phrases. :steamin:

    5) All classes SHOULD be passed. There should also be a grade for "Basic Understanding" where a low intelligence kid who took a slightly different testing sequence than the others in the same class should pass too if they get it at a basic level. But if a kid is capable and just lazy, or never comes to class, they should fail and have to retake it over the summer.

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    I think it's time to get extreme. This whiny, bleeding heart, empathy, excuse making culture we live in now is taking this country down the toilet. Seriously, the more we move away from the cold, unforgiving paternal culture of yesteryear, the worse it gets and the further we fall behind the rest of the world.

    I say take the kids away from parents who don't keep on them and then sterilize them :yes: That's what we call deterrent based motivation

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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2454612]What can and should be done about education in the USA?
    I just cant believe The University of Mn is offering remedial classes in English and Math. What the hell are these kids doing in college in the first place! Excuse my English I didn't go to college for remedial English.[/QUOTE]

    I'd say go back to doing school like we did 50-60 years ago when we had good education.

    I knew more about the basics at the end of 8th grade than most HS grads today!

    So was I a genius? Nope...made the honor roll maybe 3-4 times during 4 years of HS, yet didn't need any remedial classes in college.

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    Some pretty obvious ones and a change up:

    First and foremost, parents have to commit the time necessary to insure their kids education. The strongest correlation between success and failure in schools is parental involvement - everything else pales by comparison. But the liability does not stop there.

    We need to revamp the system in three ways:

    1) a new way to pay for it. Education should not bankrupt communities and it is doing so now - at least in NY and probably many other places.

    2) a chance for kids who are not academically inclined to learn a trade at an earlier age than 18 (I propose 15 or 16, but who am I?) The younger the better for those who suffer to one degree or another because of those that do not want to be in school. Sometimes it is also the younger the better for the kid who doesn;t want to be there, too.

    3) the way kids learn has changed radically. Remember when kids started watching lots of TV? That was the first wave of change. Now they do not spend as much time with TV as they do video games........... which have constant stimulation and rewards built in every 7 to 10 seconds as well as a host of attention getting graphics. Last week, my local school district hosted a speaker who demonstrated data from how the wiring in kids brains today is vastly different than the wirong of a 40 year old. The fact is that schools today teach to the way kids learned 50 years ago. Like it or not, kids build neural connections differently because they learn differently.

    I am an old school coach and an open minded old school type teacher. We laugh and learn and there are no significant negative behaviors in my class. I think all but the most antischool kids would say that my class is interesting and enjoyable and many have kids have done well .......... but I am always looking for more to do better. As simultaneously entertaining and instructive as I think and hope my class was, I think I have learned a better way ......... This year, I have started to use a lot of PowerPoint presentations in my class. The kids are eating these up. Everything from attention to involvement to achievement is up - big time. I tutor for the school district as a whole at the local library on Thursday nights. One week for a big assignment (a Math 8 Daignostic Test with tutorials), I stopped tutoring at 8:30 and was shocked when I found several of my class students at the linrary up until closing at 9:00 working on the library pc's.

    For a sample of what will get kids to want to work harder and retain lessons better, you can try this link. Please remember it is a diagnostic test in the beginning and the arrows in the bottom right corners take you to the tutorials. The best one to try is the Math 8 Diagnostic Test.

    [url]http://www.pmschools.org/schools/southocean/lindquistpp/lindquistpp.htm[/url]

    Right now I am teaching 8th graders how to find the simulataneous solution of two intersecting lines. I have a great YouTube video of patriot missiles knocking off scude missiles. The plumes of exhaust look exactly like lines and the intersection causes a massive fireball. I go on to use powerpoint and they are locked in on the lesson (which, by the way, is short - attention spans for a talking teacher do not have rewards built in every 7 to 10 seconds..... build to the point, make the point, let ther kids work on and with the point.) I have found a significant improvement in everything from effort to results:)

    What can never be lost from the old school is the work ethic, sense of responsibility and discipline. Within those all important qulaities, it is a brave new world wherein kids can use the web to find info in seconds it took us hours or more to find at the library. This said, the basics have to be learned much, much better than they are today - but the way yuo teach the basics works best when bruoght up to date.

    Are you aware that he only countries that have ADD and ADHD also have massive use of video games by their youth? Kids are conditioned to act one way by hours of games and then school goes deadset against it.

    If you want more complete info on research about brain development and the like, try ianjukes.com
    Last edited by JCnflies; 03-29-2008 at 12:51 AM.

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    [QUOTE=sackdance;2455057]How about throwing 1/2 the students into vocational schools where they might actually learn a trade and make a living? We talk about American problems all the time, but the lack of American born skilled labor is not one them (plus the imported kind...FLAT OUT SUCKS). Ask PK, he makes a killing (and God bless him for it), but he knows how few good plumbers there are. Our education seems to be directed towards sending all students to the ivy leagues. And for those who don't go? Well, they can mimic Ivy league studies at community college.

    And the cost of college? Kids will learn an effin' lot more by flat out going to work (and then, later in life, hiring MBAs to do great work for them...ala "Rich Dad, Poor Dad").[/QUOTE]

    :yes:

    Not every student is suited to work in an office. The world needs more than business majors and advertisers. I believe that actually working is a hell of a lot more instructive than anything you can learn in a classroom. Plain old common sense will get you further than 10's of thousands of dollars worth of "book smarts".

    I don't see many colleges offering courses in "common sense".

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2454612]What can and should be done about education in the USA?
    I believe:
    1) Get rid of the Dept. of Education.
    2) Set up a standard group of classes for Kindergarden, 1 thru 8 and 9 to 12
    3) The basics being math, english, spelling, history chime in please.
    4) Language started early rather then later
    5) All classes must be passed so you can graduate. Oh no retaking tests that one fails This is a common thing in Mn schools.

    I just cant believe The University of Mn is offering remedial classes in English and Math. What the hell are these kids doing in college in the first place! Excuse my English I didn't go to college for remedial English.[/QUOTE]

    And get rid of evolution from biology classes too. Darwinism is a hoax perpetrated by the left-wing media.

  18. #18
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    [B][COLOR="Red"][FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="4"]Honestly, I think this whole [COLOR="Navy"]"education crisis"[/COLOR] thing is a complete farce

    I'm sorry, I Just don't see any problem with our educational institutions[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/B]

    [url]youtube.com/watch?v=YTjaYaORCKo[/url]
    Last edited by Green Jets & Ham; 03-30-2008 at 12:14 AM.

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    There is way to much influence by unions who want to keep the status quo(sp). I work with a guy who went to school in France and in grades 1 thru 8 1teacher taught all the subjects and in HS 1 teacher taught all the subjects.
    Now you have a different teacher for every subject.

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    [QUOTE=bandwagon;2455652]And get rid of evolution from biology classes too. Darwinism is a hoax perpetrated by the left-wing media.[/QUOTE]

    I think students should learn what Evolution is and what it says.

    I think students should learn Creationism and what it is and what it says.

    Then they should make their own choice.

    "Not learning" Evolution is an intrusion upon learning by established Religion.

    "Not learning" Creationism is an intrusion by the extreme liberal forces.

    Why can't students learn both, learn why there is a disagreement, and take their own side in the debate?

    I will withold my own stance on Evolution.

    But anything biological, like genetic mutation, "fitter animals surviving," the changing of breeding patterns, the fact that offspring look like their parents, the genetic code, chromosomes, etc.

    WHICH ARE ALL BIOLOGICAL, not Religious...

    should be taught in a biology class.

    There needs to be an outlet or a "section of content" in a Biology class of any level where this debate can take place, so students can learn both sides of the debate.

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