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Thread: War In Iraq

  1. #1
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    War In Iraq

    Can someone explain to me how on earth were ever going to get out of there ? Is this the Next Korea ? Will we be there for 30 + years ? We have botched this up so bad I Dont think leaving at this point is a good option.

    If we do leave, what sort of turmoil will insue at that point ? Will we have even more inflamed hatred for both the US and Isrreal. Really does anyone have any ideas that might work ? Cause even though I think the war was a huge mistake and I think we should have gotten out long ago. Im not sure we can do that Now. Any good ideas out there ? Maybe if we put our heads together rather than sling mud we can come up with a viable plan to get out, maybe we cant, but at the very least we can try ? You read about the parties coming together for the good of the country and the folks at JI come together and debate this issue to a possible resolution ?

  2. #2
    [QUOTE=Smashmouth;2459132]Can someone explain to me how on earth were ever going to get out of there ? Is this the Next Korea ? Will we be there for 30 + years ? We have botched this up so bad I Dont think leaving at this point is a good option.

    If we do leave, what sort of turmoil will insue at that point ? Will we have even more inflamed hatred for both the US and Isrreal. Really does anyone have any ideas that might work ? Cause even though I think the war was a huge mistake and I think we should have gotten out long ago. Im not sure we can do that Now. Any good ideas out there ? Maybe if we put our heads together rather than sling mud we can come up with a viable plan to get out, maybe we cant, but at the very least we can try ? You read about the parties coming together for the good of the country and the folks at JI come together and debate this issue to a possible resolution ?[/QUOTE]



    I am of the very unpopular opinion that we need to sustain the increased troop levels while continuing to train the Iraqi security forces. I think there is no easy way out at this point.

    i think gradual transition to joint (Iraqi/US) security in each region is the the first step followed by increasing the leadership roles of the Iraqis and slowly reducing the US presence in each of the regions as the Iraqi's become more capable.

    This is a long term solution , maybe as long as 2-3 more years before anything close to a full transition could be made.


    Ok let me have it! :D

  3. #3
    "not leaving" because it would be a mess is delaying the inevitable. we have to leave because we can't rebuild a place that doesn't realize it is defeated.

    it's that simple.

    Iraq went against Colin Powells Doctrine of Overwhelming Force and therefore was a doomed war from the get go. Staying and hoping doesn't change the grim facts.

    The only reason to stay is to hope that one day the oil spiggots get turned back on. But even that is turning out to be a false hope.

  4. #4
    The only reason the Democrats are allowing the war to go on today is to win the Presidency. The war is lost we should leave now, if you miss the last plane or hellicopter out you're on your own.

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=Jetfan_Johnny;2459200]I am of the very unpopular opinion that we need to sustain the increased troop levels while continuing to train the Iraqi security forces.[/QUOTE]

    So, in other words, we'll stand down when they stand up. I kinda figured that strategy has already been proven to not be working. Why should the Iraqis bother to secure their own country when we are doing it for them at no cost to them? We send them pallets of money and the most highly trained army in the world and in return we ask for nothing. There is no motivation for them to take control themselves...our president has made it abundantly clear than any attempt to hold the Iraqis nose to the grindstone is in effect comforting to terrorists...

  6. #6
    Look what is happening while we are on watch in Iraq.

    [QUOTE]Iranian who brokered Iraqi peace is on U.S. terrorist watch list
    Suleimani's name appears on a U.S. Treasury Department list of individuals and organizations with whom Americans are barred from doing business.

    He's also mentioned in a March 2007 U.N. Security Council resolution aimed at halting Iran's uranium enrichment program. His name appears in an annex of Iranian individuals whose financial assets U.N. members are required to freeze.

    Iraqi lawmakers said that Suleimani had participated in weekend meetings in the Iranian holy city of Qom that resulted in Sadr ordering his followers to draw back after nearly a week of clashes with government troops.

    While Iran flexed its political and diplomatic muscles, the United States at times appeared to be a bystander in the crisis. The United States has more than 140,000 troops in Iraq, but little presence or influence in the south and the port city of Basra[/QUOTE]

    [url]http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/32141.html[/url]

  7. #7
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    There is going to be a power struggle between and within the different cultural sects in Iraq no matter when we leave. It's inevitable, and a natural effect of a newly established democracy.

    Civil war and genocide are most likely a part of the equation. We have laid the foundation and done all we can to make their transition to a new form of government as smooth as possible. We have trained and equipped them in preparation for security and a military establishment. We have helped rebuild their intrastructure and provided them with universal healthcare and a host of other forms of welfare.

    It is in their hands now. The time has come for them to stand on their own two feet and to figure out the future of their own country.

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2459235]So, in other words, we'll stand down when they stand up. I kinda figured that strategy has already been proven to not be working. Why should the Iraqis bother to secure their own country when we are doing it for them at no cost to them? We send them pallets of money and the most highly trained army in the world and in return we ask for nothing. There is no motivation for them to take control themselves...our president has made it abundantly clear than any attempt to hold the Iraqis nose to the grindstone is in effect comforting to terrorists...[/QUOTE]

    It has proven not to work as quickly as anyone would have liked. I also agree with other posters that regardless of when we leave there will be sunni/shiite problems. I just think you need to leave them in a position where they have at least a small chance of maintaing some level of order and hopefully prevent the violence from turning into genocide.

    I am very open to hear other peoples solutions for getting out of this very bad situation.
    Last edited by Jetfan_Johnny; 04-01-2008 at 09:11 AM.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=Jetfan_Johnny;2459250]I am very open to hear other peoples solutions for getting out of this very bad situation.[/QUOTE]

    Let 'em fight each other. Simple enough.

    If they are so hell bent on constantly shooting and blowing each other up, let them do it. They can fight [I][B]each other [/B][/I]over there instead of fighting us here...

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2459253]Let 'em fight each other. Simple enough.

    If they are so hell bent on constantly shooting and blowing each other up, let them do it. They can fight [I][B]each other [/B][/I]over there instead of fighting us here...[/QUOTE]

    i am fine with that as long as you realize what ends up in power may be actually worse than the people we removed however many years ago.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=Jetfan_Johnny;2459257]i am fine with that as long as you realize what ends up in power may be actually worse than the people we removed however many years ago.[/QUOTE]

    Liberals don't care. Aslong as they get free healthcare and cheaper gas.

  12. #12
    Will people finally come to the realization that the Iraq war should of never been started until we took care Afghanistan.

    If you saw what Hayden said on Sunday, it will be hard to argue the above statment.



    [QUOTE=Jetfan_Johnny;2459257]i am fine with that as long as you realize what ends up in power may be actually worse than the people we removed however many years ago.[/QUOTE]

  13. #13
    We need to maintain a presence in Iraq and Afghanistan for the forseeable future.

  14. #14
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    It was wrong of us to ever have been there, I think thats pretty clear to the majority of us. The problem is, now that we went in there and screwed everything up its irresponsible to leave it in the horrible condition that we created.

    It was irresponsible to be there in the first place, our wonderful President screwed this nation the second he dropped the first bomb. There is no easy solution, now that we created the mess we can't just leave it. Bush's F- up is going to be our problem for a LONG time after he is gone.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=Jetfan_Johnny;2459257]i am fine with that as long as you realize what ends up in power may be actually worse than the people we removed however many years ago.[/QUOTE]

    That's entirely true...but doesn't frighten me in the least bit.

    Do you realize how far away a Navy ship can be from it's target and still hit it? Do you realize we have reconnaissance satellites that can photograph a single number on a license plate from 80 miles up? Predator drones, tomahawk missiles, etc.

    We can fight this with technology. This isn't Normandy. We don't need "boots on the ground". The times are a-changing...

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=Jetfan_Johnny;2459257]i am fine with that as long as you realize what ends up in power may be actually worse than the people we removed however many years ago.[/QUOTE]

    +1
    I completely agree. We destroyed any kind of order that country had, if we leave it in the state that it is now, whoever is the biggest and baddest warlord is going to take power, and we will have the same problems we did before the war, if not worse.
    The best thing to do at this point is to do everything possible to reach peace in this country. I'm not saying it will be easy - it certainly won't. But if we completely pull out now, the country is going to go back to exactly what it was before.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2459281]That's entirely true...but doesn't frighten me in the least bit.

    Do you realize how far away a Navy ship can be from it's target and still hit it? Do you realize we have reconnaissance satellites that can photograph a single number on a license plate from 80 miles up? Predator drones, tomahawk missiles, etc.

    We can fight this with technology. This isn't Normandy. We don't need "boots on the ground". The times are a-changing...[/QUOTE]

    Nice Bob reference :D


    Warfare has absolutely changed over the past decade and the next decade will have even bigger changes I am sure.

    I just don't want to leave Iraq in such shape that we are going to have to continually address it. My thought was to help get the Iraqi's to a reasonable level of self governance.

    However, if the Iraqi people continue to drop the ball and do not get up to speed. i will join the **** them and let them fight it out crowd.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Jetfan_Johnny;2459331]Nice Bob reference :D


    Warfare has absolutely changed over the past decade and the next decade will have even bigger changes I am sure.

    I just don't want to leave Iraq in such shape that we are going to have to continually address it. My thought was to help get the Iraqi's to a reasonable level of self governance.

    However, if the Iraqi people continue to drop the ball and do not get up to speed. i will join the **** them and let them fight it out crowd.[/QUOTE]

    If we leave and "let them fight it out". Do you know what is will turn into?

    [IMG]http://www.tofocus.info/images/flags/iran-flag.gif[/IMG]


    [SIZE="7"]VS.[/SIZE]


    [IMG]http://www.world-flags-symbols.com/_img_nations5/saudi_arabia_flag.png[/IMG]

  19. #19
    Republicans have done nothing but screw thing up and overspend. The War has been incredably badly run, poorly planned, and vastly overspent (mostly on Nationbuilding, something I disagree with deeply).

    It is exhibit A of their utter and abject failure of the last 8 years. Fail to win in Afganistan, go needlessly into Iraq (sorry, if you buy the "Fighting in Iraq has Stopped Attacks Here" line you're simply wrong IMO, as the two are not so neatly tied at the hip), do a half-assed job of occupation and nation-building, rather than splitting the Nation into three, and treating it like post WWII Germany or Japan, and waste trillions of taxpayer dollars, whilst at home spending trillions and generally acting like money-hungry Democrats.

    So I'm ready to see what the Dems can do in power, frankly. Not that I'll be voting for them of course, or the Rpubs, but a Dem domination is still IMO an almost certainty (unless CLinton screws it up by holding on to the bitter end). Too bad they, the Dems, very likely will do nothing either, except the most common refrain in Politics today "Blame the Last Guy While Doing Nothing".

    At least the Dems are honest about their desire to destroy our economy and end personal responsabillity once and for all with Socialism, Unfettered Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants, and endless social welfare programs. The Rpeublicans have done just as much harm, but have been dishonest or at best misleading about it almost from the start, and frankly if we, as a Nation, and going to waste a few spare Trillion, I'd rather see it wasted on Lazy Welfare hungry Americans than lazy, welfare hungry Iraqi's.

    This country is headed in the ****ter regardless, may as well have the Socialists have their chance. Lord knows the so-called "conservatives" havn't done **** to deserve our support.

    Never in my life have I felt so utterly disenfranchised as a voter. There is no real choice here. It's bad or worse.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2459358][B]At least the Dems are honest about their desire to destroy our economy [/B]and end personal responsabillity once and for all with Socialism, Unfettered Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants, and endless social welfare programs. The Rpeublicans have done just as much harm, but have been dishonest or at best misleading about it almost from the start, and frankly if we, as a Nation, and going to waste a few spare Trillion, I'd rather see it wasted on Lazy Welfare hungry Americans than lazy, welfare hungry Iraqi's.[/QUOTE]

    :D

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