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Thread: For McCain, Little Talk of a Controversial Endorsement

  1. #1
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    For McCain, Little Talk of a Controversial Endorsement

    [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/08/us/politics/08hagee.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1207659830-lpS7SMB63DUdfA0VqxTNzQ"]NY TIMES[/URL]

    When Senator John McCain won the endorsement of the Rev. John C. Hagee in February, his campaign hoped it would shore up his conservative credentials among evangelicals and build enthusiasm among a voting bloc that would be critical for him in November.

    But since then, Mr. Hagee has been on the defensive over some of his views about Catholics and Jews, and he and Mr. McCain’s campaign have been silent about his endorsement.

    The controversial endorsement points to Mr. McCain’s tenuous relationship with conservative evangelicals, a group that President Bush courted with tremendous success and that Republicans have come to view as vital to their prospects in many states.

    The McCain campaign sought Mr. Hagee’s support, Mr. Hagee said in a recent interview. But after the two announced the endorsement at an event on Feb. 27 in San Antonio, Mr. Hagee’s hometown, the campaign has stopped talking about it.

    A spokeswoman answers questions by referring to a statement Mr. McCain made the day after the endorsement, when it was greeted with a barrage of criticism: “In no way did I intend for his endorsement to suggest that I in turn agree with all of Pastor Hagee’s views, which I obviously do not.”

    Mr. Hagee also declines to discuss the endorsement, and in interviews and during a conference call with reporters on Monday, he would not even say how it had come about. “For the present time for many reasons,” Mr. Hagee said in an interview late last month, “it is better that I don’t comment on the campaign in any way.”

    The controversy surrounding Mr. Hagee seemed to take the McCain campaign by surprise, said David C. Leege, an expert on Catholic voters and an emeritus professor of political science at Notre Dame.

    Mr. McCain began seeking Mr. Hagee’s endorsement more than a year ago, trying to bolster the campaign’s support among evangelical voters. Republican leaders are concerned that evangelicals will sit out the election in November, depriving Mr. McCain of votes that may be crucial to beating the Democratic nominee.

    Mr. Hagee has a large following and a vast reach on radio and television. But he has also been criticized by Catholics for comments about the church and, recently, by some Jews for his views on Israel.

    After Mr. Hagee endorsed Mr. McCain, the criticism was fierce and Mr. McCain soon distanced himself, issuing a series of statements until he announced he was “repudiating” those of Mr. Hagee’s views that might be considered anti-Catholic.

    A McCain adviser acknowledged on Monday that the campaign had failed to look into Mr. Hagee’s background adequately and said that as a result the campaign’s procedures for vetting endorsers had improved.

    Mr. McCain, who does not talk about religion publicly, has a rocky history with conservative Christians. Eight years ago, he called the Rev. Jerry Falwell and the Rev. Pat Robertson “agents of intolerance.”

    But as he prepared to run for president again, Mr. McCain was the graduation speaker at Mr. Falwell’s Liberty University in 2006, met with Mr. Hagee in Texas and spoke at his Night for Israel in Washington in 2007.

    As recently as last week, however, James C. Dobson of Focus on the Family criticized Mr. McCain in an opinion article in The Wall Street Journal for his unwillingness to support a federal amendment against same-sex marriage and to oppose federal financing for stem cell research.

    Mr. Hagee, 68, is not as well known as Dr. Dobson or Mr. Falwell, but he is powerful within the “strongly conservative political wing of the evangelical community,” said D. Michael Lindsay, an expert on evangelical political involvement and assistant director of the Center on Race, Religion and Urban Life at Rice University. The author of many books, Mr. Hagee also talks twice daily on 75 radio and 125 television stations and has a personal e-mail list of two million supporters, Mr. Lindsay said. “It is his constituents who are least likely to support McCain,” he said.

    Immediately after the endorsement, though, the Catholic League condemned him as being anti-Catholic. The group accused him of branding the Roman Catholic Church as anti-Semitic and of referring to it in his apocalyptic theology as “the great whore of Babylon,” the symbol of a false church.

    Mr. Hagee said that his views had been misrepresented and that he had never been anti-Catholic. He said that he had examined anti-Semitism across Christian denominations and that the reference to a false church applies to those Christians who do not believe in the Gospel.

    Mr. Hagee was also denounced last week by Rabbi Eric Yoffie, the president of the Union for Reform Judaism, the country’s largest branch of Judaism. Rabbi Yoffie called Mr. Hagee and his group, Christians United for Israel, “extremists.”

    Mr. Hagee, who is traveling in Israel with 1,000 evangelicals, defended himself in a conference call on Monday, saying that Rabbi Yoffie “relies on a few quotes from me and others pulled out of context. Rabbi Yoffie ignores our record because this record completely undermines his claim.”

    Mr. Hagee’s prominence is partly explained by his activism on behalf of Israel. His group has a mailing list of 80,000 “spiritual leaders,” Mr. Hagee said, and he has given about $30 million to Israeli causes in the last five years.

    The group’s view, which it has expressed to members of the Bush administration, is that Israel should not be pressured “into making territorial concessions that she does not want to make,” Mr. Hagee said Monday. He does not support a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    While many Jewish leaders welcome Mr. Hagee’s support, Rabbi Yoffie, at a meeting in Cincinnati of the rabbinate of Reform Judaism, asked leaders to reject Christians United for Israel. “If implemented,” Rabbi Yoffie said, “these views would mean disaster for Israel, and would lead to diplomatic isolation, increased violence and the loss of Israel’s Jewish majority.”

    Most of the 55 million evangelical adults in the United States believe in the literal second coming of Christ, but Mr. Hagee is one of approximately nine million who are pre-millennial dispensationalists, said John Green of the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. By putting together passages from biblical books like Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel and others, they amass “a puzzle to produce an amazingly detailed scenario of the end of history,” said Timothy Weber, author of “On the Road to Armageddon: How Evangelicals Became Israel’s Best Friend.”

    For the prophecies to be fulfilled, proponents believe, Jews must control Israel.

    Mr. Hagee has said he supports Israel because of biblical mandates to “bless” the Jews. “Our support of Israel has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of End Times scenario,” Mr. Hagee said. “All the Old Testament prophets prophesied that the state of Israel would be reborn.”

    Mr. Hagee, meanwhile, has been trying to patch up relations with Catholic leaders. He met recently in New York with Deal W. Hudson, a former Bush campaign strategist, who said he was asked “to choose other Catholic leaders” for Mr. Hagee to meet with.

    But Mr. Hagee’s choice of Mr. Hudson as Catholic liaison may create its own problems: Mr. Hudson had to resign in 2004 as head of Catholic outreach at the Republican National Committee after old accusations of sexual misconduct surfaced.

    Elisabeth Bumiller and Michael Cooper contributed reporting.

  2. #2
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    Our friend, Hagee....

    "DNC: Which Hagee Positions Does John McCain Endorse?

    McCain Should Denounce John Hagee Endorsement, Discriminatory Remarks

    WASHINGTON, Feb. 29 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- In his struggle to shore
    up his base, John McCain has once again cast aside his principles by
    embracing Rev. John Hagee, saying he was "pleased to have the endorsement
    of Pastor John Hagee," despite his intolerant comments about Catholics,
    women, African Americans, Muslims and LGBT Americans. He repeated his
    support today, saying "I am very proud of the Pastor John Hagee's spiritual
    leadership to thousands of people...I am not endorsing some of their
    positions." [McCain Media Availability, 2/29/08]

    So which Hagee positions does John McCain endorse? His position that
    Hurricane Katrina was punishment from God because "New Orleans had a level
    of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment
    of God for that." Or his position that "all Muslims have a mandate to kill
    Christians and Jews." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06] Or his "slave sale" where he
    announced that participants should "make plans to come and go home with a
    slave." [San Antonio Express-News 3/7/96]

    Hagee has already come under fire for his anti-Catholic remarks. Bill
    Donohue, president of the Catholic League, said McCain should "retract his
    embrace of Hagee," and said Hagee "has waged an unrelenting war against
    the Catholic Church." Chris Korzen, Executive Director of Catholics United,
    said "We hope Senator McCain will take the principled position of publicly
    and unequivocally distancing himself from Pastor Hagee's anti-Catholic
    comments. Intolerance and bigotry do not belong in American politics."

    "As a Catholic, I am personally offended by John McCain's embrace of
    such a divisive figure. I join many others in the Catholic community
    calling on Sen. McCain to immediately distance himself from Hagee and
    denounce his remarks," said DNC Executive Director Tom McMahon. "As an
    American, I'm also offended by Hagee's denigration of African Americans,
    Muslims, women, and LGBT Americans. Hagee's hate speech has no place in
    public discourse and McCain's embrace of this figure raises serious
    questions about John McCain's character and his willingness to do anything
    to win."

    McCain on John Hagee

    "Well I think it's important to note that pastor John Hagee who has
    supported and endorsed my candidacy supports what I stand for and believe
    in. When he endorses me, it does not mean that I embrace everything that he
    stands for and believes. And I am very proud of the Pastor John Hagee's
    spiritual leadership to thousands of people and I am proud of his
    commitment to the independence and the freedom of the state of Israel. That
    does not mean that I support or endorse or agree with some of the things
    that Pastor John Hagee might have said or positions that he may have taken
    on other issues. I don't have to agree with everyone who endorses my
    candidacy. They are supporting my candidacy. I am not endorsing some of
    their positions." [McCain Media Availability, 2/29/08]

    John Hagee on the Issues...

    Hagee on Hurricane Katrina

    "All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I
    believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and
    they were recipients of the judgment of God for that." [NPR Fresh Air,
    9/18/06]

    Hagee on Islamic Beliefs

    Fresh Air host Terry Gross asked if Hagee believed that "all Muslims
    have a mandate to kill Christians and Jews," to which Hagee replied, "Well,
    the Quran teaches that. Yes, it teaches that very clearly." [NPR Fresh Air,
    9/18/06]

    Hagee on African-Americans

    The San Antonio Express-News reported that Hagee was going to "meet
    with black religious leaders privately at an unspecified future date to
    discuss comments he made in his newsletter about a 'slave sale,' an East
    Side minister said Wednesday." The Express-News reported:

    "Hagee, pastor of the 16,000-member Cornerstone Church, last week had
    announced a 'slave sale' to raise funds for high school seniors in his
    church bulletin, 'The Cluster.'

    "The item was introduced with the sentence 'Slavery in America is
    returning to Cornerstone' and ended with "Make plans to come and go home
    with a slave." [San Antonio Express-News 3/7/96]

    Hagee on Catholicism

    "Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking
    Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate
    the Jews." [Jerusalem Countdown by John Hagee]

    Hagee on Women

    "Do you know the difference between a woman with PMS and a snarling
    Doberman pinscher? The answer is lipstick. Do you know the difference
    between a terrorist and a woman with PMS? You can negotiate with a
    terrorist." [God's Profits: Faith, Fraud and the Republican Crusade for
    Values Voters, Sarah Posner]

    "[T]he feminist movement today is throwing off authority in rebellion
    against God's pattern for the family." ["Bible Positions on Political
    Issues," John Hagee]

    Hagee on LGBT Americans

    "The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried
    nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday
    that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going
    to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other
    Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real
    thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that
    the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings
    punishment sometimes before the day of judgment." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]

    Hagee on Iran

    "The coming nuclear showdown with Iran is a certainty," Hagee wrote [in
    2006] in the Pentecostal magazine Charisma. "Israel and America must
    confront Iran's nuclear ability and willingness to destroy Israel with
    nuclear weapons. For Israel to wait is to risk committing national
    suicide." [The Nation, 8/8/2006, [url]
    http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060814/new_christian_zionism][/url]

    Paid for and authorized by the Democratic National Committee,
    [url]http://www.democrats.org[/url].
    Last edited by long island leprechaun; 04-08-2008 at 01:32 PM.

  3. #3
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    Just kills you guys that Obama's friend and spiritual advisor turned out to be a whitey-hating bigot, eh?

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2469650]Just kills you guys that Obama's friend and spiritual advisor turned out to be a whitey-hating bigot, eh?[/QUOTE]

    No, it just kills me that you can make such blatantly wrong statements and believe them. A lie repeated often enough, etc. etc.

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2469650]Just kills you guys that Obama's friend and spiritual advisor turned out to be a whitey-hating bigot, eh?[/QUOTE]

    Hey, it's just that after the last couple of years, we're extra sensitive about our candidates being held to a different standard that the Republicans.

    For example:

    Bush, no matter how it happened, avoided service in Vietnam and paid 0 price for it. Kerry got three purple hearts after volunteering and was called a liar, coward and traitor for his trouble.

    Just play it fair and we'll be all right.

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    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2469823]Hey, it's just that after the last couple of years, we're extra sensitive about our candidates being held to a different standard that the Republicans.

    For example:

    Bush, no matter how it happened, avoided service in Vietnam and paid 0 price for it. Kerry got three purple hearts after volunteering and was called a liar, coward and traitor for his trouble.

    Just play it fair and we'll be all right.[/QUOTE]

    and blowjob billy's price for being a draft dodger???

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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2469667]No, it just kills me that you can make such blatantly wrong statements and believe them. A lie repeated often enough, etc. etc.[/QUOTE]

    Lord knows, you'd know all about lies repeated, eh. What was that you said earlier about Libertarians supporting child rape and abuse again? :rolleyes:

    Watching you desperately try to compare an endorcement to Obama's personal friend, mentor and paid spiritual advisor is funny enough. Watching you cry like this with standard issue talking points (If someone you think is a Conservative says something, it must be a LIE!) is even funnier.

    If nothing else, it will be entertaining watching the left and right destroy each other this election cycle. Maybe it's good I don't have a horse in this race, as it'll make the widespread hycpocricy, double standards and outright dishonesty of the left and right that much more transparent and pathetic.

    But worry not my lefty friend, odds still heavily favor a Dem win come Election day. Then we'll get to see how your side does. Lets hope for your sake (and mine) they do far better than our do-nothing Democrat Majority Congress (and it's Republican predecessors) have.

    By the way, no need to respond, I can already see your "lies, rpublicans fault, Wrights a hero, McCain is Satan" talking point answer. You guys are nothing if not predictable.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2469823]Hey, it's just that after the last couple of years, we're extra sensitive about our candidates being held to a different standard that the Republicans.[/QUOTE]

    Indeed, it must truly suck that the major media (sans Fox) are occasionally reporting actual bad things about Dems for a change. Must suck to have a still-not-even-but-slightly-less-Dem-biased playing field this time round.;)

    Since this entertains me so, please do a compare/contrast between Wrights relation to Obama, and McCains relationship to Hagee. Thanks.:cool:

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2469830][B]Lord knows, you'd know all about lies repeated, eh. What was that you said earlier about Libertarians supporting child rape and abuse again? :rolleyes:[/B]

    Watching you desperately try to compare an endorcement to Obama's personal friend, mentor and paid spiritual advisor is funny enough. Watching you cry like this with standard issue talking points [B](If someone you think is a Conservative says something, it must be a LIE!)[/B] is even funnier.

    If nothing else, it will be entertaining watching the left and right destroy each other this election cycle. Maybe it's good I don't have a horse in this race, as it'll make the widespread hycpocricy, double standards and outright dishonesty of the left and right that much more transparent and pathetic.

    But worry not my lefty friend, odds still heavily favor a Dem win come Election day. Then we'll get to see how your side does. Lets hope for your sake (and mine) they do far better than our do-nothing Democrat Majority Congress (and it's Republican predecessors) have.

    By the way, no need to respond, I can already see your "lies, rpublicans fault, Wrights a hero, McCain is Satan" talking point answer. You guys are nothing if not predictable.[/QUOTE]

    On the first point, you simply missed the boat of what I said and then refused to acknowledge what other posters on the libertarian issue understood perfectly well. If you go back and read that thread, you'll see that you must have been drunk or deaf, dumb and blind to come away with the conclusion that I said anywhere that libertarians support child rape. But if you keep repeating it long enough, maybe you'll make that true too.....

    Re conservatives being liars, I don't know where you got that from either. I would ask you to cite specifically Wright's comments that fit the bill of being a "white-hater" and "bigot." Easy to say, and pretty craven, unless you can back it up with something substantial...

    And by the way, there's no desperation in my posting. Just adding the actual quotes from the patriotic, white, Reverend Hagee... I'm sure he's got his flagpin on, even as we speak...

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2469924]On the first point, you simply missed the boat[/QUOTE]


    Of COURSE I did. You compare all Libertairans to Child-Rape-Supporting Abusers, but it's MY problem for "misunderstanding" your intent. Standard Leftist talk, it's never them, it's always the ignorant listener who screws it up (Just like with Wright's Comment, right?)

    Gotcha.:rolleyes:

    When you get some new talking points, let me know. Your current ones are overplayed and boring.:zzz:

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2469667]No, it just kills me that you can make such blatantly wrong statements and believe them. A lie repeated often enough, etc. etc.[/QUOTE]a lie huh? ok plz enlighten me on Wrights positon on AIDS....thanks

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    [QUOTE=2foolish197;2469941]a lie huh? ok plz enlighten me on Wrights positon on AIDS....thanks[/QUOTE]

    don't forget Pearl Harbor....

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2469829]and blowjob billy's price for being a draft dodger???[/QUOTE]

    Clinton only won in 1992 because of Perot -- he did not get a pass from the press on his draft avoidance as Bush did. It also goes a long way with me that Clinton ultimately opposed the war and avoided it while Bush supported the war, avoided it and stole 1 million dollars worth of training from the Air National Guard before going AWOL to work for a political campaign.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2469834]Indeed, it must truly suck that the major media (sans Fox) are occasionally reporting actual bad things about Dems for a change. Must suck to have a still-not-even-but-slightly-less-Dem-biased playing field this time round.;)

    Since this entertains me so, please do a compare/contrast between Wrights relation to Obama, and McCains relationship to Hagee. Thanks.:cool:[/QUOTE]

    I'm sorry but your first point is ridiculous. In 2004 the press turned the swift-boat commercial (which only ran a few times in a limited television market) into a 24-hour a day extravaganza for two weeks without ever really considering that it was total hogwash. By contrast Bush was never even asked about his cocaine use in 2000 and


    Wright said some awful things with a history of being a contributor to his community and our country. Hagee has said some awful things while contributing nothing to our society that I know of. Obama has been with his Pastor for long while and refused to abandon him for political gain -- McCain SOUGHT OUT Hagee recently for his own political advantage despite the things he's said.

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    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2470020]I'm sorry but your first point is ridiculous. In 2004 the press turned the swift-boat commercial (which only ran a few times in a limited television market) into a 24-hour a day extravaganza for two weeks without ever really considering that it was total hogwash. By contrast Bush was never even asked about his cocaine use in 2000 and [/quote]

    Yep, that dastardy Right Wing Media Conspiracy, at it again.:rolleyes:


    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2470020]Wright said some awful things with a history of being a contributor to his community and our country. Hagee has said some awful things while contributing nothing to our society that I know of. Obama has been with his Pastor for long while and refused to abandon him for political gain -- McCain SOUGHT OUT Hagee recently for his own political advantage despite the things he's said.[/QUOTE]

    If you had to stretch your logic any further to make this comparions, you could join the Fantastic 4. Wow. :eek:

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    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2470008]Clinton only won in 1992 because of Perot -- he did not get a pass from the press on his draft avoidance as Bush did. It also goes a long way with me that Clinton ultimately opposed the war and avoided it while Bush supported the war, avoided it and stole 1 million dollars worth of training from the Air National Guard before going AWOL to work for a political campaign.[/QUOTE]

    Bush got a pass from the press for his national guard service????!!!!!!

    How much kool aid do you drink????

    Ever hear of dan blather??? mary mapes??? See BS????

    he got such a pass from the press they went as far as making up a bullsh!t story to create something that just wasn't there....

    oh- sorry; you're one of the .5% who still believe the story had validity....

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2469938]Of COURSE I did. You compare all Libertairans to Child-Rape-Supporting Abusers, but it's MY problem for "misunderstanding" your intent. Standard Leftist talk, it's never them, it's always the ignorant listener who screws it up (Just like with Wright's Comment, right?)

    Gotcha.:rolleyes:

    When you get some new talking points, let me know. Your current ones are overplayed and boring.:zzz:[/QUOTE]

    Quote where I said that, otherwise ban yourself for being an idiot. Just quote it, that's all. If you can't meet that simple standard then that does in fact make you a blatant liar. Simple enough. Show us...

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2470056]Quote where I said that, otherwise ban yourself for being an idiot. Just quote it, that's all. If you can't meet that simple standard then that does in fact make you a blatant liar. Simple enough. Show us...[/QUOTE]

    Ok.

    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2465600]The [B][U]dark side of libertarianism[/U][/B]....

    While I am a card carrying believer in protecting the rights of minorities of all stripes, stuff like what happened below is one [B][U]reason to temper those principles [/U][/B]with common sense. [/QUOTE]

    Here you imply directly that Libertarian principles have to be tempered because they support child rape (the story, redacted here). This is a fallacy, Libertarianism does not support child rape, or the abuse of childrens rights, plain and simple. Your argument at the very outset was a strawman.

    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2465716][B][U]A true libertarian would argue that such communities have a right to practice whatever form of religion they choose without interference from the evil federal government, the evil state authorities, etc.[/U][/B] If that means polygamy, so be it. If that means young girls being indoctrinated into having sex with 50year old letchers, with the consent of their nutty parents, so be it.... etc.

    Does the state have an obligation to intrude upon such practices to protect the rights of children? [B][U]Or is that a violation of libertarian principles[/U][/B]?[/QUOTE]

    Here, you VERY clearly state that Libertarianism, a "True Libertarian" as you put it, would argue for defense of religious "freedom" that included child rape and abuse.

    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2466662]You and Warfish quickly dismiss the idea that any libertarian would support pedophilia. Fine with that. But if we lived in a society of noninterference with the rights of others, how would we prevent such practices if they are done with the consent of childrens' parents in the privacy of their compounds.

    On the one hand, the libertarian is all for parents having the right to raise their children as they see fit. [B][U]If a parent believes that offering his/her daughter sexually to a holy minister of their congregation is not pedophilia but a blessing, how do you argue that they can't do so from a libertarian point of view. [/U][/B]
    How does the libertarian respond?[/QUOTE]

    Here, again, you try to cliam that Libertarians are unable to argue against child rape and abuse, because of their Libertarian ideals. Again, this is grossly inaccurate and ignorant.

    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2467451]I wasn't suggesting that libertarians are endorsing any particular abuse (Yes, you did). I was making the point that a libertarian society faces very difficult dilemmas in determining what constitutes an abuse of liberty.

    [B][U]But try putting ten libertarians in a room and see if you get the same consensus (on the topic of child rape)... [/U][/B]it's not as simple as you would apparently like to have it. [/QUOTE]

    Yes, it is. Put ten sane Libertarians in a room, and every single one will denouce child rape and abuse.

    [QUOTE]in fact make you a blatant liar.[/QUOTE]

    Clearly, I am not a "liar". But I expect you'll fall back on your usual argument of "your dumb, you just couldn't understand the brilliance of my argument" yet again. But in the future, I'd be more careful with the term liar. Some people find that term offensive when the facts of same are not in evidence.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2470032]Bush got a pass from the press for his national guard service????!!!!!!

    How much kool aid do you drink????

    Ever hear of dan blather??? mary mapes??? See BS????

    he got such a pass from the press they went as far as making up a bullsh!t story to create something that just wasn't there....

    oh- sorry; you're one of the .5% who still believe the story had validity....[/QUOTE]

    Did he support the war? YES.
    Did he GO to the War? NO.
    Was he eligible to go? YES.
    Was it almost impossible to get into the Air Guard? YES.
    Did Bush get in ahead of many others? YES.
    Did he finish his service in the Air Guard? NO

    Every element of the story is indisputably true -- the documents were irrelevant.

    Answer me this in two sentences: Why didn't he go? This is the question that the press never asked.

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    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2470334]Did he support the war? YES.
    Did he GO to the War? NO.
    Was he eligible to go? YES.
    Was it almost impossible to get into the Air Guard? YES.
    Did Bush get in ahead of many others? YES.
    Did he finish his service in the Air Guard? NO

    Every element of the story is indisputably true -- the documents were irrelevant.

    Answer me this in two sentences: Why didn't he go? This is the question that the press never asked.[/QUOTE]

    of course the documents are irrelevant to you- because you've been pointed out for not knowing what the hell you're talking about- as usual...if they were real you'd be waving them around on a flag pole....

    but as you've proven; you're part of the .5% who thinks the story had some validity....they gave him a pass yet they went out and made up some completely bogus story with bogus documents...makes sense...

    never mind you had no answer for the bubba the draft dodger question...

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