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Thread: An Israeli View on Carter Meeting with Hamas

  1. #1

    An Israeli View on Carter Meeting with Hamas

    [QUOTE][B]Our debt to Jimmy Carter [/B]

    By Haaretz Editorial

    Tags: Israel, Boycott, Jimmy Carter

    The government of Israel is boycotting Jimmy Carter, the 39th president of the United States, during his visit here this week. Ehud Olmert, who has not managed to achieve any peace agreement during his public life, and who even tried to undermine negotiations in the past, "could not find the time" to meet the American president who is a signatory to the peace agreement with Egypt. President Shimon Peres agreed to meet Carter, but made sure that he let it be known that he reprimanded his guest for wishing to meet with Khaled Meshal, as if the achievements of the Carter Center fall short of those of the Peres Center for Peace. Carter, who himself said he set out to achieve peace between Israel and Egypt from the day he assumed office, worked incessantly toward that goal and two years after becoming president succeeded - was declared persona non grata by Israel.

    [B]The boycott will not be remembered as a glorious moment in this government's history. Jimmy Carter has dedicated his life to humanitarian missions, to peace, to promoting democratic elections, and to better understanding between enemies throughout the world.[/B] Recently, he was involved in organizing the democratic elections in Nepal, following which a government will be set up that will include Maoist guerrillas who have laid down their arms. But Israelis have not liked him since he wrote the book "Palestine: Peace not Apartheid."

    [B]Israel is not ready for such comparisons, even though the situation begs it.[/B] It is doubtful whether it is possible to complain when an outside observer, especially a former U.S. president who is well versed in international affairs, sees in the system of separate roads for Jews and Arabs, [B]the lack of freedom of movement[/B], [B]Israel's control over Palestinian lands and their confiscation, and especially the continued settlement activity, which contravenes all promises Israel made and signed[/B],[B] a matter that cannot be accepted[/B]. [B]The interim political situation in the territories has crystallized into a kind of apartheid that has been ongoing for 40 years. [/B]In Europe there is talk of the establishment of a binational state in order to overcome this anomaly. [B]In the peace agreement with Egypt, 30 years ago, Israel agreed to "full autonomy" for the occupied territories, not to settle there. [/B]

    [B]These promises have been forgotten by Israel, but Carter remembers.[/B]

    [B]Whether Carter's approach to conflict resolution is considered by the Israeli government as appropriate or defeatist, no one can take away from the former U.S. president his international standing, nor the fact that he brought Israel and Egypt to a signed peace that has since held. Carter's method, which says that it is necessary to talk with every one, has still not proven to be any less successful than the method that calls for boycotts and air strikes. In terms of results, at the end of the day, Carter beats out any of those who ostracize him. For the peace agreement with Egypt, he deserves the respect reserved for royalty for the rest of his life. [/B]

    [url]http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974893.html[/url][/QUOTE]

    Very powerful editorial from Israel's oldest daily paper. Haaretz is a very well respected paper and its reporting tends to be more favorable to Israelis than to Palestinians in such issues.

    I am continuously amazed at how open the discussion is on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict amongst Israelis and how critical of their governments actions many Israelis are compared to here in the USA. There is no way any US newspaper would get away with such an editorial w/o being crucified.

    They are 100% dead right about Carter and why talking to Hamas can do no worse than the current policy of isolation.

  2. #2
    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2481609]Very powerful editorial from Israel's oldest daily paper. Haaretz is a very well respected paper and its reporting tends to be more favorable to Israelis than to Palestinians in such issues.

    I am continuously amazed at how open the discussion is on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict amongst Israelis and how critical of their governments actions many Israelis are compared to here in the USA. There is no way any US newspaper would get away with such an editorial w/o being crucified.

    They are 100% dead right about Carter and why talking to Hamas can do no worse than the current policy of isolation.[/QUOTE]

    What Carter is trying to do is difficult. Therefore he will be called horrible things by many people on this board. Isn't it always the way for people who TRULY try to follow the teachings of Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi, King etc.

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2481733]What Carter is trying to do is difficult. Therefore he will be called horrible things by many people on this board. Isn't it always the way for people who TRULY try to follow the teachings of Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi, King etc.[/QUOTE]

    Yes very sad. It real easy to attack the man but how many 80 year olds still dedicate their lives to accomplishing good for mankind. This is a totally selfless act. He has nothing to gain by doing this. The man truly would like to see peace between Israel and Palestine and he gets trahed for doing so. Like the editorial say, maybe Carters approach will not work but the approaches taken up to now have failed, so why not try something different. Hamas is a reality whether you like them or not. You can ignore them all you want but any true lasting peace will need them to be included in the talks.

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2481733]What Carter is trying to do is difficult. Therefore he will be called horrible things by many people on this board. Isn't it always the way for people who TRULY try to follow the teachings of Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi, King etc.[/QUOTE]


    so now carter is following the teachings of Jesus???? f^cking hysterical!!!

    where's carter calling out chavez- whom he helped get elected- for what's gone on in Venezuela????

    I guess Jesus would also say hamas should pubically renounce their tactics and suicide bombings only after they get what they want....

  5. #5
    Well I can tell you that by far the majority of Israelis do not agree with this Haaretz editorial.

    Talk to anyone for the hope of peace? Yes most definately. Lend legitimacy to a thug group who has no interest in peace and sends bombs daily to try and kill as many civilians as possible? Absolutely no way.

    Carter should be ashamed of himself as a man of peace. Meeting with Hamas does nothing for it. He most definately should be shunned.

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=Queens Jet Fan;2481935]Well I can tell you that by far the majority of Israelis do not agree with this Haaretz editorial.

    Talk to anyone for the hope of peace? Yes most definately. Lend legitimacy to a thug group who has no interest in peace and sends bombs daily to try and kill as many civilians as possible? Absolutely no way.

    Carter should be ashamed of himself as a man of peace. Meeting with Hamas does nothing for it. He most definately should be shunned.[/QUOTE]

    If talking to the thugs who happen to be the democratically elected leaders of the Palestinians is a shameful act -- then there is no hope at all.

    Carter is trying to be a peacemaker and to get others to turn the other cheek. Say what you want about him (and I agree it can be pretty tough to take sometimes) but he brokered the only lasting deal in the region between Israel and Egypt in four years while Bush couldn't broker a deal between chocolate and milk in eight. Success talks, bs and bravado walk.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2481946]If talking to the thugs who happen to be the democratically elected leaders of the Palestinians is a shameful act -- then there is no hope at all.

    Carter is trying to be a peacemaker and to get others to turn the other cheek. Say what you want about him (and I agree it can be pretty tough to take sometimes) but he brokered the only lasting deal in the region between Israel and Egypt in four years while Bush couldn't broker a deal between chocolate and milk in eight. Success talks, bs and bravado walk.[/QUOTE]
    Your description of Hamas is not entirely accurate. Yes they won election to the legislature but the head of the PA was still Abbas, and he was violently thrown out of Gaza by the thugs.

    Don't legitimize Hamas in a way that is not factual. Do you think that Abbas the true democratically elected leader of the Palestinians is happy that Carter is meeting with Hamas and giving them legitimacy?

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=Queens Jet Fan;2481960]Your description of Hamas is not entirely accurate. Yes they won election to the legislature but the head of the PA was still Abbas, and he was violently thrown out of Gaza by the thugs.

    Don't legitimize Hamas in a way that is not factual. Do you think that Abbas the true democratically elected leader of the Palestinians is happy that Carter is meeting with Hamas and giving them legitimacy?[/QUOTE]

    Hamas is part of the problem. Therefore dealing with them is part of the solution. We have tried isolation and ignoring them. That has not worked. Time to try something different. Simply talking to them does not give them legitimacy. They were voted in in a democratic election. That gives them all the legitimacy needed. Abbas is a nobody. He is weak and has no real power. Talking with him and ignoring Hamas all together is simply foolish and will not lead to any solution. Why are people so afraid to talk? What do we have to lose by just listening to what Hamas wants?

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Queens Jet Fan;2481935]Well I can tell you that [B]by far the majority of Israelis do not agree with this Haaretz editorial.[/B]
    Talk to anyone for the hope of peace? Yes most definately. Lend legitimacy to a thug group who has no interest in peace and sends bombs daily to try and kill as many civilians as possible? Absolutely no way.

    Carter should be ashamed of himself as a man of peace. Meeting with Hamas does nothing for it. He most definately should be shunned.[/QUOTE]

    Please provide evidence for this. I want numbers and sources! Not your opinion or what your friends think.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2481946]If talking to the thugs who happen to be the democratically elected leaders of the Palestinians is a shameful act -- then there is no hope at all.

    Carter is trying to be a peacemaker and to get others to turn the other cheek. Say what you want about him (and I agree it can be pretty tough to take sometimes) but he brokered the only lasting deal in the region between Israel and Egypt in four years while Bush couldn't broker a deal between chocolate and milk in eight. Success talks, bs and bravado walk.[/QUOTE]

    turn the other cheek???? are fuqin kidding??? brokered a "lasting deal"??? it's more comical by the second....

    meanwhile carter is writing things as such:

    [QUOTE]To wit: "It is imperative that the general Arab community and all significant Palestinian groups make it clear that they will end the suicide bombings and other acts of terrorism when international laws and the ultimate goals of the Roadmap for Peace are accepted by Israel." (Emphasis added.) [/QUOTE]

    so bombs away until you get what you want islamofacists......

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2481992]Please provide evidence for this. I want numbers and sources! Not your opinion or what your friends think.[/QUOTE]
    Don't have numbers for you. If you know of any poll that shows the opposite please let me know. It is my humble opinion after reading many Israeli newspapers and speaking with many Israelis.

    I would be very confident in wagering that my opinion is correct.

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2481988]Hamas is part of the problem. Therefore dealing with them is part of the solution. We have tried isolation and ignoring them. That has not worked. Time to try something different. Simply talking to them does not give them legitimacy. They were voted in in a democratic election. That gives them all the legitimacy needed. Abbas is a nobody. He is weak and has no real power. Talking with him and ignoring Hamas all together is simply foolish and will not lead to any solution. Why are people so afraid to talk? What do we have to lose by just listening to what Hamas wants?[/QUOTE]

    Hamas and Israel at the local level talk every day. The idea that they don't talk to each other is a myth.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Queens Jet Fan;2482038]Don't have numbers for you. If you know of any poll that shows the opposite please let me know. It is my humble opinion after reading many Israeli newspapers and speaking with many Israelis.

    I would be very confident in wagering that my opinion is correct.[/QUOTE]

    I dont know of any numbers. Thats why i dont make such claims. Im sure the majority of Israelis do disagree with this editorial, but the number who agree i bet is more than you think. I would be willing to wager its more than 1/3. And thats significant.

    Also I bet that those who agree with this editorial are treated with more respect in Israel than if they said this in the USA. Ill bet any amount of money on that

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2482190]Hamas and Israel at the local level talk every day. The idea that they don't talk to each other is a myth.[/QUOTE]

    I know. I agree 100%.
    Thats why I laugh when people say stupid sh!t like "talking to Hamas legitimizes them".

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2482385]I know. I agree 100%.
    Thats why I laugh when people say stupid sh!t like "talking to Hamas legitimizes them".[/QUOTE]

    Someone who doesn't know the difference between talks on the local level about day to day circumstances, and talks at a higher governmental level should not criticize as stupid sh!t about what legitimizes Hamas.

  16. #16
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    I have an Idea why dont we just stay the hell out of it and let them do to each other what ever the hell they want. Honestly Im sick of this arguement and the bull**** cries when someone tries to help. CBNY your analogies are rediculous, Im not a big fan of Carter either but I don't think he ever said it was ok for the bombing to continue until a peacefull solution was agreed upon by Isreal. Thats a silly statement my friend actully its just plain ignorant.

    If Isreal does not want to talk to its enimies and try to come to a peacefull solution then this will continue to happen. At some point somethings gotta give. Both Countries have made stupid mistakes in this conflict and will continue too. Im not sure anything can be done other than eventual all out war . Enough of all the politically correct bull**** Innocent civilians on both sides have suffered Hamas attacks with suicide bombers and missiles and Isrealis attack with there army either way innocent people die on both sides . They need to sit and talk if they simply cant then do what you have to do and get it overwith already.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=Smashmouth;2482905]I have an Idea why dont we just stay the hell out of it and let them do to each other what ever the hell they want. Honestly Im sick of this arguement and the bull**** cries when someone tries to help. CBNY your analogies are rediculous, Im not a big fan of Carter either but I don't think he ever said it was ok for the bombing to continue until a peacefull solution was agreed upon by Isreal. Thats a silly statement my friend actully its just plain ignorant.

    If Isreal does not want to talk to its enimies and try to come to a peacefull solution then this will continue to happen. At some point somethings gotta give. Both Countries have made stupid mistakes in this conflict and will continue too. Im not sure anything can be done other than eventual all out war . Enough of all the politically correct bull**** Innocent civilians on both sides have suffered Hamas attacks with suicide bombers and missiles and Isrealis attack with there army either way innocent people die on both sides . They need to sit and talk if they simply cant then do what you have to do and get it overwith already.[/QUOTE]

    :applause::applause::applause::applause:

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=Smashmouth;2482905]I have an Idea why dont we just stay the hell out of it and let them do to each other what ever the hell they want. Honestly Im sick of this arguement and the bull**** cries when someone tries to help. CBNY your analogies are rediculous, [B]Im not a big fan of Carter either but I don't think he ever said it was ok for the bombing to continue until a peacefull solution was agreed upon by Isreal.[/B] Thats a silly statement my friend actully its just plain ignorant.[/QUOTE]

    are you kidding me???? the only ignorance is watching you making stupid statements when you don't know what the fuq you're talking about....the best part is watching a brain dead moron like [B]ignorantjetsfan[/B] following along with your contrived bullsh!t...

    [QUOTE]To wit: "[B]It is imperative that the general Arab community and all significant Palestinian groups make it clear that they will end the suicide bombings and other acts of terrorism when international laws and the ultimate goals of the Roadmap for Peace are accepted by Israel." [/B](Emphasis added.) [/QUOTE]

    [url]http://jpundit.typepad.com/jci/2007/01/konners_decembe.html[/url]

    [url]http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976879837[/url]

    [url]http://www.nypost.com/seven/01152007/postopinion/editorials/jimmy_for_terror_editorials_.htm[/url]


    [QUOTE]If Isreal does not want to talk to its enimies and try to come to a peacefull solution then this will continue to happen. At some point somethings gotta give. Both Countries have made stupid mistakes in this conflict and will continue too. Im not sure anything can be done other than eventual all out war . Enough of all the politically correct bull**** [B]Innocent civilians on both sides have suffered Hamas attacks with suicide bombers and missiles and Isrealis attack with there army either way innocent people die on both sides .[/B] They need to sit and talk if they simply cant then do what you have to do and get it overwith already.[/QUOTE]

    and what does the peanut farmer do??? honors one responsible for murdering innocent civilians and encouraging it to continue...your bullsh!t post is mindboggling....

    shall we now talk about how carter tried to stop a known nazi from being deported out of the US?????
    Last edited by Come Back to NY; 04-16-2008 at 12:52 AM.

  19. #19
    Stick to selling insurance.

    Carter has stated he is not there in any official capacity.


    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2482975]are you kidding me???? the only ignorance is watching you making stupid statements when you don't know what the fuq you're talking about....the best part is watching a brain dead moron like [B]ignorantjetsfan[/B] following along with your contrived bullsh!t...



    [url]http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976879837[/url]

    [url]http://www.nypost.com/seven/01152007/postopinion/editorials/jimmy_for_terror_editorials_.htm[/url]




    and what does the peanut farmer do??? honors one responsible for murdering innocent civilians and encouraging it to continue...your bullsh!t post is mindboggling....

    shall we now talk about how carter tried to stop a known nazi from being deported out of the US?????[/QUOTE]

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2482975]are you kidding me???? the only ignorance is watching you making stupid statements when you don't know what the fuq you're talking about....the best part is watching a brain dead moron like [B]ignorantjetsfan[/B] following along with your contrived bullsh!t...



    [url]http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976879837[/url]

    [url]http://www.nypost.com/seven/01152007/postopinion/editorials/jimmy_for_terror_editorials_.htm[/url]




    and what does the peanut farmer do??? honors one responsible for murdering innocent civilians and encouraging it to continue...your bullsh!t post is mindboggling....

    shall we now talk about how carter tried to stop a known nazi from being deported out of the US?????[/QUOTE]

    While I agree with you more often than not , zionism is the same as fascism. The israel lobby that totally controls our senate needs to be shown the door. 13 billion dollars given to israel every year ,by the way the richest nation in the world per capita from us tax payers is inexcusable and downright wrong sir.

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